Fastpass Enforcement coming?

[doconeill]

True but it does affect those FP users that adhere to the time they were given, if others who are not, show up at the same time.

This is true...but it only affects those who were immediately behind the late users, and anyone entering the FP line, until the line is empty - which should happen fairly regularly, at which time everything returns to normal. And if it's only a few people it doesn't really change things appreciably.

Now, if we're talking about a large group like a BTG, things are different - but they are going to clog up the line early or late, and I don't think anyone will give them much latitude no matter what

 

[doconeill]

I still do not understand this argument. How does it affect the so-called rule-followers again?

The argument there is that there is somebody in the fastpass line in front of the who wouldn't be there otherwise. But in small numbers and normal operations, this doesn't have much of an effect at all, especially on bulk loaders like Soarin' - it doesn't matter if you are the first person loaded or the 50th, you're still riding at the same time

 

[mesaboy2]

The argument there is that there is somebody in the fastpass line in front of the who wouldn't be there otherwise. But in small numbers and normal operations, this doesn't have much of an effect at all, especially on bulk loaders like Soarin' - it doesn't matter if you are the first person loaded or the 50th, you're still riding at the same time

I guess I'm thick. If I had returned during the window, I'd still be ahead of our hypothetical rule-follower. The number of riders before him didn't change a bit, only the order of them. The only difference is that he sees me instead of some other FPer in front of him. This applies to any ride operating at full capacity.

 

[doconeill]

I guess I'm thick. If I had returned during the window, I'd still be ahead of our hypothetical rule-follower. The number of riders before him didn't change a bit, only the order of them. The only difference is that he sees me instead of some other FPer in front of him.

Talking strictly about the Fastpass line, that line should empty on a regular basis. So if he appeared on time, there is absolutely no effect on you 2 hours later because at some point the Fastpass line would have been empty in between.

But say you'd be the first person in the Fastpass line at your time, and he shows up just before you - you're now the second person in the Fastpass line instead. So there is obviously an effect - quite a minor one, but it is still there. But once the FP line empties - poof, anyone getting in after that won't see any effect.

 

[KellyNY]

The argument there is that there is somebody in the fastpass line in front of the who wouldn't be there otherwise. But in small numbers and normal operations, this doesn't have much of an effect at all, especially on bulk loaders like Soarin' - it doesn't matter if you are the first person loaded or the 50th, you're still riding at the same time

What if now I am 51st, I will wait entire show.

 

[Sammie]

I still do not understand this argument. How does it affect the so-called rule-followers again?

The purpose of fast pass is to take a certain number riders between opening and closing and spread them out by giving a specific number of riders a specific time to return.

If you don't follow that time, you over load the numbers at any given time.

If there had been no advantage to spacing them out, why even have Fastpass to begin with.

Now I know those that don't adhere to the times will come back and say that at any given time some will get them and not show up, but you can't count on that.

You have to look at Fastpass as a type of reservation. If Disney has determined that the ride can handle lets say 200 riders showing up at the same window of time and move them quickly, others showing up at that time affects the efficiency.

Now my guess after over 40 years of going to Disney is that this affect was not that great in the beginning. But as with all things the news that times are not enforced has spread, thanks to these types of forums and it does now affect the efficiency enough to get Disney's attention.

And I definitely think Disney plans even greater restrictions in the future, so this enforcement is step one in getting the guests ready for what is coming.

If Disney allows their guests to book a time period for a ride and by doing so they are limiting the number with the same time to ensure quick load times, letting others on that were not planned for is definitely going to mess it up.

Personally if I know that I can book TSM in advance and actually be assured when I arrive on time, of a very short wait, I am all for it, even if I have to pay for it. However if I do pay for it and show up at my appointed time only to learn they are letting others in that did not pay or did not adhere to their appointed time and now my wait time has increased, I am going to be a very unhappy guest and will not pay for it again and believe me Disney knows that.

If Disney goes to a paid program for this exclusive advantage, they will stand firm on it.

 

[doconeill]

What if now I am 51st, I will wait entire show.

Yes, that is true, if the load rate is 50, and you got bumped to 51st. But then there shouldn't have been that many people in the FP line in general, as that means they are running FP issue at 100%, or there was an operational issue, OR we're talking about large groups using FPs late (which I've already addressed).

Last time - I HAVE NOT SAID THERE ISN'T AN EFFECT ON THE FASTPASS LINE. I have said that there is an effect, but it is generally minor and typically no greater than one ride cycle, and it only lasts until the Fastpass line is empty again.

And we can constantly come up with increasingly more horrific examples that are less and less likely to occur. It's a waste of brain power at that point.

 

[chmurf]

Why are FPs issued with a time window ?
There are a certain amount of FPs issued for a given time window in order to distribute FP riders throughout the day. And most probably, the system integrates a crowd prediction as a basis for how many FPs are distributed for a given time window (and if it doesn't then it should)

The number of guests who can ride in an hour is # of SB guests + # of FP guests and this had to be less than ride capacity

If the number of SB guests run low at a certain point, it might become tempting for FP holders to ride SB and save their FP for later.

So in effect, during the day at slow periods, lines will remain real short, when they should have accomodated a fair number of FP users scheduled for that period, and at busy periods lines will get even more crowded than they should have been because late FP holders will see the long line as an opportunity to maximize their experience by not waiting on a busy time.
On a guest to guest basis it does not affect much the time lost by other guests, but if you add up many guests, it can ben quite upsetting.

And just looking at the poll posted yesterday, almost 40% of participating DISers had anwered that they purposedely get FPs with late return in mind (midday or late). And almost another 40% say they happen to be late. That's a 70 to 80% of guests who do not meet the return time. So it's not just marginal, it's rampant. If Disney has that kind of statistics (and I'm sure they are) it's no wonder they want to enforce the policy, and there is no more telling that only a few guests go beyond their return times. It's widespread and rampant.

Finally, I do understand that the enforcement of the rule might require some guests to change their planning and touring habit, but wait ... you've enjoyed a perk (not arguing if it was legit, cheating or whatever), now you may need to accept that other guests may not have the same way of planning and touring, and that the way the system will now be, is more suited to them and will open more opportunitie for them.

There are millions of guests every year, and when something is changed we suddendly discover that a very small fraction of guests actually own the park ... or so they think. Well, no, If things are not to your liking, there are so many other guests who will love the new policy ... why would you have to be the only guests who could enjoy the free stuff ?

 

[KellyNY]

Yes, that is true, if the load rate is 50, and you got bumped to 51st. But then there shouldn't have been that many people in the FP line in general, as that means they are running FP issue at 100%, or there was an operational issue, OR we're talking about large groups using FPs late (which I've already addressed).

Last time - I HAVE NOT SAID THERE ISN'T AN EFFECT ON THE FASTPASS LINE. I have said that there is an effect, but it is generally minor and typically no greater than one ride cycle, and it only lasts until the Fastpass line is empty again.

And we can constantly come up with increasingly more horrific examples that are less and less likely to occur. It's a waste of brain power at that point.

Those are not horrific examples, those are real examples of how late commers affect particular person experience. We can say zero sum and be happy to justify using loop and everytime when someone questions it just repeat zero sum. But when we go into details zero sum theory excuse is blown away by very simple fact of delay. Delay is a key here and besides any variables and unexpected circumstances as part of normal operation, delay still be there, it will always go on top of it.

 

[brymolmom]

See, that's why some people can't get ahead....you're already planning to lie before you even get there ,

After awhile no excuses will be tolerated and some of us will only have ourselves to blame

I know you couldn't have read my other posts on here - what with 70-ish pages...But I have stated that I, actually, do not lie as a rule. I will follow the rule to a T - IF, and this is a big IF, it is actually enforced across the board. Once, however, CM's start letting in others due to this excuse or that excuse or whatever....then I will not sit back and let everyone else have an advantage that I deserve as well...It is ONLY THEN that I would make up an 'excuse'. Although honestly, I have an issue lying - so likely I would just say 'we had something come up' if we were asked, and I wouldn't elaborate.

 

[estherhead]

I'm glad I'm not going March 7th, I'll be honest.

But if this is in preparation for something cool coming, I'm all for it. For example, what if I could reserve one ride for each day I'm at WDW from home the day I book my WDW resort hotel? And get FP while I'm there? And what if in the future they open the window to 2 hours? I can see that being a big perk. It adds incentive to stay on site, benefitting WDW bottom line, without overly penalizing offsite guests.

Or there are even more FP's available for things like characters. What if now you can meet Jack Sparrow all the time with FP's you can use your one booking for?

I really can see a lot of potential and if this is step one of a grand scheme, I'm all for it.

I don't think if a ride breaks down for a short time it would be an issue. They could just have a secondary card they hand out at the FP line that says "Broken ride FP" and is good for the rest of the day. Just like a child swap thing.

I have been one of those to get a TSM FP with a return time of 10:00-11:00. TSM was broken until 3:30 pm that day. When it finally did open all those FPers like us had been waiting around making the line for FP returners about a 45 minute wait at 3:30. A CM was telling you that at the FP return place. We had an ADR so didn't stick around. But if you had a reservation you had made from home 6 months earlier for 1:00-2:00 pm that day you'd be super bummed.

In general when WDW makes changes to how people stand in line in the long run I like it. When they change prices, generally I don't.

 

[mesaboy2]

Talking strictly about the Fastpass line, that line should empty on a regular basis. So if he appeared on time, there is absolutely no effect on you 2 hours later because at some point the Fastpass line would have been empty in between.

Since you have cred with me, I'll assume this is true. But I don't think I've heard this crucial little nugget of info before. In this case, I could see now there would be an effect, but it's still extremely minor and not enough for me to feel bad about it.

Of course, those days are apparently numbered anyway.

 

[larryz]

Why are FPs issued with a time window ?

Well, we now know who didn't read the whole thread...

 

[Lisa71]

I think this sucks. I have small kids, and standing in lines, baby swap, heat, diaper changes, etc. can all take their toll. Do I have to promise I will take them on Toy Story Mania at 6pm when we arrive in the morning and that is the FP time available? REALLY? What if 707pm I arrive,after our son with CP has a diaper change, a nap, and feels good enough to ride. No, sorry, tell him too bad? Sucks. Sorry, the FP rules we try to follow, but life happens. I don't feel like I should have to beg a CM to ride.

 

[maxiesmom]

I think this sucks. I have small kids, and standing in lines, baby swap, heat, diaper changes, etc. can all take their toll. Do I have to promise I will take them on Toy Story Mania at 6pm when we arrive in the morning and that is the FP time available? REALLY? What if 707pm I arrive,after our son with CP has a diaper change, a nap, and feels good enough to ride. No, sorry, tell him too bad? Sucks. Sorry, the FP rules we try to follow, but life happens. I don't feel like I should have to beg a CM to ride.

No you shouldn't have to beg a CM to ride a ride. However if your Fastpass window states you need to ride between 5 and 6 then you need to ride between 5 and 6. Sometime stuff happens and you miss your window. Life goes on.

Or you can simply choose to not use Fastpasses and instead wait in line. If you have a child that is completely incapable of waiting in line, then a trip to a place where waiting in lines is a huge part of what you do, may not be the best trip choice.

Disney has never ever promised you could ride every ride exactly when it was most convenient.

 

[chmurf]

Well, we now know who didn't read the whole thread...

or we now know who didn't read past a post's first line and who don't understand a thing about rethorics and didn't understand that the question I asked was to introduce my answer to said question

 

[doconeill]

Since you have cred with me, I'll assume this is true. But I don't think I've heard this crucial little nugget of info before. In this case, I could see now there would be an effect, but it's still extremely minor and not enough for me to feel bad about it.

Of course, those days are apparently numbered anyway.

It's a functional thing...if the line didn't empty out, and it always had priority over the standby line, the the standby line would never move and 100% of the attraction's capacity is given over to Fastpass.

 

[skater]

I like the flexibility of the current fp system. I hope I don't have to plan it down to a level that includes knowing what time I'll want to get on a ride ahead of time. I'm hopeful that the coming system will allow for some flexibility. If it gets too strict and too detailed, it won't be a relaxing vacation for me anymore. And probably not worth it.

 

[eliza61]

I think this sucks. I have small kids, and standing in lines, baby swap, heat, diaper changes, etc. can all take their toll. Do I have to promise I will take them on Toy Story Mania at 6pm when we arrive in the morning and that is the FP time available? REALLY? What if 707pm I arrive,after our son with CP has a diaper change, a nap, and feels good enough to ride. No, sorry, tell him too bad? Sucks. Sorry, the FP rules we try to follow, but life happens. I don't feel like I should have to beg a CM to ride.

and sorry to be cruel but I don't feellike I should have a systemed clogged because your children need nap time.

See unfortunately one of hte joys that comes with parenthood is that kids are inconvenient and yes I am a mom of 3. Yes some times it sucks but with little kids you do miss out. Life does happen and as a parent you roll with the punches life throws at you.

The rest of the guest do not have to be inconvenience by our kids.

If you promise them they will ride tsm then you either stand in the standby line to keep that promise or you make it a point to return during the correct time.

So I guess if you promise them a movie and life happens the theater should hold up the show because you brought a ticket?

I know that sounds rude and that's not what I mean to be but Disney has an obligation to all it's guest and to put systems in place to make it run more efficiently and effectively.
The promise you the opportunityto have a great time and fp is one tool to do that but there is no guarantee that they some how are required to make it easy and convenient when "life happens".

When life happens plans change.

I don't mean to sound harsh or unsympathetic, I am neither but Disney has an obligation to run the parks effectively and efficiently and they are putting in systems to do just that. No, I don't know what the problem was but evidently there was one in the current running of fp.

 

[mom2rtk]

So I guess if you promise them a movie and life happens the theater should hold up the show because you brought a ticket?

LOL! Now using a late fastpass is the same level of entitled behavior as expecting a theater to hold up a movie!

Perspective people!

Although I have to say, the variuos moral equivalencies reported here are some of the most entertaining DIS reading in a long time!