Fast Pass to become "Pay for Play"?

[pamlet]

Well I attempted to wade through the patent app... sheesh now I KNOW that being a lawyer would be DULL...

Anyway from what I could tell there were a couple things that I've not seen posted..

The more you spend at ANY resort... the more you get.. or at least a higher priority:

[0248] a. Spending per guest at hotels can determine different hierarchies of access to Fastpass. Thus, the more that is spent by a patron, the higher the priority can be for Fastpass

ALSO the deluxe resorts would have more priority..

[0250] c. Different levels and hierarchies can be applicable at different hotels. Thus, more luxurious hotels can have higher priorities

AND "day guests" ... guess that's ME staying offsite... still have the ability to use fast pass... with a "long virtual wait"...

[0230] 1. There is the ability to forecast return times so as not to disadvantage the day guest. This is to minimize the impact to Day Guests, and on first-in first-out guests.

[0274] 6. There is the ability to issue a concurrent Fastpass for the day guest (with long virtual waits).

I would think with this all capable priortizing hardware/software system they coud EASILY include AP and Florida Residents.

The application is pretty interesting ... but it DOES take a ton of time to wade through.. as you read it you see that it IS a LOT of "pie in the sky" stuff - including using your cell phone ... the ability to order your fastpasses online... TONS of stuff.. even mentions retina scans in there!!

My take on it is that they can't even get their reservation system straight to coordinate with the web - it should be interesting to see how they handle this technology...

 

[Acklander]

Everyone is just looking at it as a on site/off site thing or a value resort/luxury resort thing. Maybe it's not that at all. Maybe it means that those that pay rack rate will have more fast passes than those who have a discount or a code. After all, the difference in prices between the resort levels can be accounted for with the ammenities; but the difference in price between people staying at the exact same resorts is less clear. Maybe it means that those that buy meals in the parks will have more fast passes than those that pack a lunch and bring water bottles; and those that sit down to breakfast will have more fast passes than those who eat cereal in the room. Maybe it's not meant to include those of us in the DVC, since they already have a vacation comittment from us for the remainder of our natural lives; Maybe it's just for those that go for the entire Disney package - the transportation (which they might start charging for after the Celebration is over)/full set of tickets (not just the one day so it fits into the package catagory)/full rack rate for the room (no pins/annual passes/FLA resident/AAA discounts) and complete meal plan. The way it's phrased is pretty vague. I see so many people posting that they think it's a good thing. Would you still consider it a good thing if it excluded you?

 

[BibbidyBobbidyBoo]

Bad idea to segregate the hotels for FP...just a bad, disgusting idea.

I agree.
I could see maybe the FP being either more accessible or solely for onsite guests- they already do other things like extra magic hour for onsite guests so why not that also to get people to stay onsite? But to segregate and calculate how many you can use based on where you stay- totally defeats the purpose of being able to come with larger families more often at the value or mod resorts. Also defeats the purpose of getting a discount and not paying rack rate if you're losing benefits you may have to PAY FOR in addition to your non-rack rate room. Then what's the point of having discounts if you'll end up paying more in the long run to have access to other benefits like FP? Deluxe resorts already have more amenities- better restaurants, character meals, kids clubs, monorail, themed pools, etc. I don't see why FP needs to be added to that- not EVERYONE could stay at the deluxe even if they wanted to- they'd all be booked up well in advance because of the extra perks for staying there- then the poor suckers who didn't book fast enough would be out of the FP?

To some it may not be a big deal but let me say that with my family of 5 we usually pass rides with long lines that we can't get a FP for. We work our day around riding rides that have short lines in between waiting for FP. The entire experience at Disney world would be ENTIRELY different if we were unable to get FP's even when staying onsite but maybe not staying in a deluxe resort-- and the whole point of staying in a value or mod resort would be nullified if we then had to pay extra to make it where we'd even want to go. And yes, I could see us not even wanting to go because the cost would be TOO HIGH -even staying onsite value or moderate- if we couldn't use FP or couldn't use it much at all -- our days would be spent in lines with our kids cranky/etc. and believe me.. wouldn't be worth it to us.

Our Six Flags here in Texas has a fast pass type system that you can pay for. Yes, we pay for it because otherwise we'd be standing in line all day- the difference for us being that we go there like one day a year, the kids usually with free passes from the reading program they do here every year at school and we drive there. We aren't staying in a hotel, we aren't going for 7-10+ days paying each time, etc. We simply wouldn't go if that were the case. But for one day- we pay it to avoid the lines. Going to WDW is a different thing entirely- it's paying for flight, onsite resort, park hoppers or season passes, high prices for meals while there (here at Six Flags we can bring our food for that one day if we want or just eat on meal while there and bring snacks or go home if we want!), etc. add to that a cost or flat out denied use of FP (or not allowed to use it much) would blow the deal for us. I hate to say it- but it would. FP is the only thing that makes WDW doable for us. I'd rather have FP and no extra magic hour(s) if I had to choose one or the other.

Yes, Universal does FOTL for onsite guests- but they don't do it where someone who is paying more for their room gets more FOTL passes for that day- do they???

 

[Sally]

I am waiting for DVC and AP holders to petition WDW to not let the rest of us in.

 

[Luigi's Girl]

I am waiting for DVC and AP holders to petition WDW to not let the rest of us in.

 

[WaltD4Me]

I do not mind special perks for those who stay on site (we do because of the perks) but think it very unfair to sort people out in the parks according to how much they pay. You pay for your room and what standard of luxury you want to enjoy while in it,

I agree, staying in Deluxe already offers many perks IMHO. Bigger rooms, better pools, better locations, better restaurants. Look at the difference between the Beach Club pool and the Pop Century pool and how convienant is it to stay at the Poly right on the monorail line and never have to see the TTC? Those are some pretty great perks if you ask me! And I'm not complaining, when you pay that much for your room you should get those perks, but to carry that over into the parks? I don't think so.

I also wonder if you would have to go through Disney and buy the package to get these perks? I know alot of people who do everything seperate, so if you stay at a Deluxe, but buy your tickets thru Ticket Mania, would you lose your FP perk?

I sincerely hope Disney doesn't not do this. The more I think about it, the more I think "digusting" is the perfect word for it.

 

[rwodonnell]

What I just noticed is that virtually everyone that has viewed this thread has responded.

I have noticed this about a lot of threads lately. I think something must be broken on the site, it just seems impossible to get that level of involvement. When I clicked in, it was 182 of 183 views. Can that really be?

 

[Tarzan]

I always stay at value resorts because, personally, I'd rather use the extra money to return as soon as possible. I have to travel from the UK with my family of 4 which makes the journey to reach WDW pretty expensive. I wouldn't mind if people staying at deluxe resorts could choose convenient times for their fast pass tickets, leaving me with a possibly long return time. I do, however, think it is wrong. Many people on this thread have said they would rather save for a long time to stay at a deluxe resort. I visit a value resort for at least 2 weeks a year. If people save for ,let's say, 6 years for their WDW vacation, I would have already spent at least 12 weeks onsite, and probably a lot more money over this time. Surely I "deserve" some recognition for that?

 

[Eeyore'sthebest]

I can't believe that this thread is still active!

Why is everyone getting all worked up over something that Disney hasn't mentioned its doing. I think the people on this thread made up all the "what if..." instances.

Okay everyone.......Deep breath in, hold it.....exhale!

There does everyone feel better now. Now let's waste our time and efforts on something important like plannnig the next vacation and not obsessing over something that hasn't occured and may never occur. Put down that extra cup of coffee. I think we all must be caffeine addicts or something!
The lawyers need to get paid for something!!

 

[MKCP5]

Tarzan

I believe you are missing my point. The very fact that you believe that you "deserve" some recognition for going more often and spending more money is the core of the issue. Why should your family's experience be better than another family's? Because you can pay Disney off for "free" perks? I understand that if you stay on site you are paying top dollar and expect to be treated well. I just don't think it extends to the parks too. Everyone who has come in has paid admission. We are all on level ground there. The resentment and anger this will bring to guests is huge!

 

[Tarzan]

I don't believe for a second that I deserve special treatment. I just meant that it would be a little unfair to reward those that stay at deluxes infrequently, when WDW has many, many guests that stay at values or moderates frequently, therefore making their spend per year longterm much higher. If Disney did go ahead with this at any point in the future I would still stay onsite and still at the lower price resorts. As long as I can get as many fastpasses as I do now, I don't mind if others get more than me

 

[tomerin]

if you want to reward guests that are AP, PAP holders or DVC owners or stay in deluxes and spend a bit more all you really have to do is just on check in give them a few extra fastpasses, maybe 2 per person each day. then there wouldnt be any need to change the current fastpass system. every day you could pick up your passes before you leave for the park.

as mentioned in earlier posts if you are any of the above mentioned groups you already have some pretty good perks. i am a dvc member and a PAP holder and a DDE member so i already have some great perks. i am fortunate to be able to afford these but i really dont think it is fair ot others who stay at moderates and values to penalize them by not affording them access to fastpass

 

[MickeyMacks]

The reason I disagree with this is:

Fast passes are for use in the parks, and everyone pays the same rate for park tickets.... I don't think it matters what type of resort you stay in.
Maybe make it so if you spend more on resorts you get better transportation to parks. But if I pay the same amount for a park ticket-(staying at a value resort) as someone staying in the Grand Floridian, I expect the same service.

Smilie is absolutely right - FastPass is a park perk, not a resort perk, so that particular service should be same for everyone. However, adding a separate type of expediated or enhanced ride service for people in, say, a Gold Level Package which probably includes a deluxe resort would be feasible - I suspect an idea like that may be behind the FastPass charge rumor. It could be called something other than FastPass, perhaps? I can't see how they could add much further advantages to the FastPass system that would be worth paying for and I really don't see how they could take away FastPass from the ticket-paying public now after they've hyped it as a great free service. They never ever said it was a pilot or test project so they'll have to keep honoring it as free for everyone. I'm not worried about FastPass going away or being an only-if-you-pay service.

 

[bicker]

This sounds like discrimination.

It's not like they're saying that Asian Americans would have lower or higher priority than others. Rather, they're saying that they would provide more value-added benefits to their customers who pay more. That's pretty-much standard practice in business.

One problem I see with this is traveling with multiple families but staying at different hotels. ... This sort of fastpass arraingement will make it very hard to do anything together.

That's not much different than the challenge such folks face in terms of spending time at the hotel pool together, if some of those families are staying at, for example, the Beach Club (due to restrictions at Stormalong Bay when it is crowded). As in that case, I'd expect that groups of families would do things together with the priority of the family with the least priority. Again, that' a pretty common arrangement, in cases like this.

Fast passes are for use in the parks, and everyone pays the same rate for park tickets.... I don't think it matters what type of resort you stay in.

We customer may say we don't like it, intellectually, but what really matters is whether we support it with our patronage. If there are enough customers willing to pay extra for extra perks, and few enough customers willing to forego the WDW experience altogether as a result of having to pay extra for higher priority, then what we're really saying, as customers, is that this change is a "good thing."

 

[Tigger_Magic]

I understand that if you stay on site you are paying top dollar and expect to be treated well. I just don't think it extends to the parks too. Everyone who has come in has paid admission. We are all on level ground there. The resentment and anger this will bring to guests is huge!

This is the flaw in these arguments: that everyone is on equal ground as far as paid admission. This is simply not true with MYW tickets.

People are paying different amounts for park admission; some more, some less, depending on how they choose to customize their tickets. Some may get a greater discount by combining tickets with room and or travel to create a resort package. There is no level ground here.

It is simple reality in business that if you pay more, you get more. Disney as a business understands that, thus the additional perks offered to on-site guests. Even within that structure there are "classes" of guests, some paying more than others. Some guests get additional perks others do not receive (i.e., AKL Concierge's Sunrise and Sunset Safaris available only to those guests).

While resentment and anger may be huge, it is completely illogical when you consider that everywhere you go you get what you pay for. I don't understand why people think Disney should be any different than any other business.

 

[bicker]

This would mean that people would stay shorter because they could accomplish more.

Not necessarily. The folks who "could accomplish more" have facilities available to them back at their hotel which they may see fit to use more thoroughly than they do no. That's a common refrain when we chat about Deluxe versus Moderate versus Value: Some folks make the very legitimate point, "Why spend extra for deluxe when you're just going to spend all your time in the parks?" Well, if this change results in folks at more luxurious resorts "accomplishing more" then that will give them more time to spend at the hotel, enjoying the nice pool, recreational facilities, etc. In the context of the implication you raised -- FastPass means people can plan shorter trips to Walt Disney World -- it sure makes sense to try to bias the system away from the likely result you asserted, by providing the service mostly to folks who would be most likely to take advantage of the benefit by spending more time at their hotel.

This would quite possibly also increase the price of the rooms.

This is a great point. Adding value to the rooms surely would bolster their ability to raise rates, thereby increasing revenue and profits. Of course, it is a balancing act: They need to balance the added perks against the higher rates and the depressive effect lower priority would have on customers who don't get the added perks.

What if I stayed in a value but went all out in other ways?

It begs the question as to the comparative margins between hotel rooms and other "all out" services. I've always wondered about those services. It seems to me that the offering of them is intended to make the core service offerings more attactive (i.e., the offering of the extra services make people more likely to come and stay), RATHER than each of those extra services being significant profit centers, themselves.

I think this system stinks and makes me very angry

And that's Disney's real challenge: Finding that balance I spoke about above. The reality is that comparatively few people feel that kind of passion for WDW, but some do, and all will have some limited level of patience for being on the short-end of this sort of thing. Disney has been very good at finding that balance, finding the sweet spot that results, not in everyone being happy, but in a net-increase in happiness.

 

[tlbwriter]

This is the flaw in these arguments: that everyone is on equal ground as far as paid admission. This is simply not true with MYW tickets.

People are paying different amounts for park admission; some more, some less, depending on how they choose to customize their tickets. Some may get a greater discount by combining tickets with room and or travel to create a resort package. There is no level ground here.

Yes, but the only way this would be relevant is if Disney gives you the option to pay more to add on to your park experience, or to pay less and forgo certain park amenities, just as you can do when choosing a resort.

 

[Tigger_Magic]

Yes, but the only way this would be relevant is if Disney gives you the option to pay more to add on to your park experience, or to pay less and forgo certain park amenities, just as you can do when choosing a resort.

Umm, they already do. MYW tickets can be bought with or without options, such as park hopping, no expiration, etc. If you purchase a package (room + tickets) you can add on MYW Dining program. If you purchase an AP, you can purchase the Disney Dining Experience.

There are many ways to pay more or pay less for your park experience, even if you choose not to stay on-site.

 

[tlbwriter]

Umm, they already do. MYW tickets can be bought with or without options, such as park hopping, no expiration, etc. If you purchase a package (room + tickets) you can add on MYW Dining program. If you purchase an AP, you can purchase the Disney Dining Experience.

There are many ways to pay more or pay less for your park experience, even if you choose not to stay on-site.

Well, yeah, that was my point. If Disney gives you the option to *buy* the special Fast Pass package, just as they give you the option to *buy* dining, park hopping, etc., then it will just be another feature you can choose to pay for or not. And that would be fine, IMHO. If it's tied to the amount you spend on your resort, on the other hand, you can't really *buy* that package without buying something else that you may not want to buy. It would be equivalent to saying that only guests at Deluxe resorts could buy park hoppers, or only Florida residents could buy the DDE.

 

[bicker]

I don't think anyone has brought this up, but who's to say Disney will replace the current system with this and not add it to the current system.

You're absolutely right, I believe. I think it is very likely that this change is really the long-rumored "advanced reservations for FastPasses" program, that we've chatted about off-and-on for years. I agree that it is likely that the only change would be that folks at on-site resorts would be able to make very specific FastPass reservations, in advance, thereby preempting a bit of availability in the parks themselves. The only impact folks inside the parks would see is that prime times for FastPasses would perhaps get skipped... suddenly at 10am, the next FastPass available jumps from 10:45 to 3:30 (because all the intervening FastPasses are already reserved in advance).

I suspect that that kind of implementation would likely result in a pretty low level of frustration and anger among the casual WDW park-goer (of which no one on The DIS qualifies, of course! ) Folks are already often faced with arriving at favorite attractions only to see that FastPasses are "sold out" for the day already. It would just happen a little more often, and a little earlier. Again, for the casual park-goer, I suspect it wouldn't be such an "in your face" affront.

I get irked by people who think they "deserve" something.

Me too. Folks who know me know that that is one of my sharpest hot-buttons. However, keep in mind that if a business promises you something, it is reasonable to think you deserve it. If WDW promises that paying deluxe resort room rates entitles you to priority in their theme parks, then you do deserve it. If WDW doesn't promise that, then it is unreasonable to expect priority.

Meaning, that I don't think that they will ask us what we think.

While you're correct that they probably won't be too concerned about what we would say, I think they'll very much want to know what we would do. Customers have ultimate power. No change like this would ever be undertaken unless the business was sure that customers, overall, favored the change, voting not with their fingers on keyboards but rather with hands going to their wallets.