Fast Pass + is terrible.

[redsbe]

Great suggestions you made. I'm so angry with Disney about FP+ that I won't be going back to WDW unless improvements are made. Because we can only go during high seasons, I refuse to spend my vacation dollars standing in long lines.

With original FP were you able to get FP at RD or in early morning for the most popular attractions when visiting during high seasons? When we last visited DS in October 2012 we rode TSM at RD and by 930a the only FP remaining were well into the evening - and this was not at a high season and was at RD. So with FP+ and the lack of FP+ soon after RD for the most popular rides is the problem really any different? Same goes for TT and Soarin at Epcot which again the only FP left soon after RD in October 2012 was for evening hours - again not even at high season. Seems like the increase in crowds in recent years plus the popularity of a just a few rides in each WDW park has impacted ride availability at many times and especially high season at any time beyond RD even before FP+ arrived on the scene.

Also what about using the common strategy of riding the most popular rides at RD even in high season? I know this does not help those that can not make RP or like to ride the most popular attraction multiple times during the day - but was that even possible without long lines during high season before FP+?

 

[Bay Lake]

I was there the same week(2/25-3/4), Stayed onsite, FP+ worked great for me. I was even able to change my times and attractions midday on my phone and was able to pick what I wanted. Was it crowded, yes but not like summer crowds. We did do some stand by lines but wait times were about half of what was posted.

 

[ThisIsMyName]

We were there last week and we had a lot of the same thoughts although we weren't that unhappy with FP+. It felt like the plan was for you to go to the parks every day for 2 weeks and see just 2 or 3 things each day and then spend the rest of the time stuck in a crowd on the sidewalk, finding stroller parking (or looking for your stroller) or waiting in line to find a spoon, get an ice cream etc. Mostly felt this at MK . .we enjoyed Epcot and HS more. The MK needs more open space/food places/a large play area for kids. The little ones were disappointed Rapunzel's area was only a bathroom. . and who can blame them? We thought MK was insanely crowded only to be told by regulars it was actually a moderate crowd day. . .I could not imagine it being much more crowded.

 

[mom2mickeyfan]

I know this has been touched upon previously, but Disney has more than twenty resorts on site. Perks like FP+ (and it is a perk, not a right) are designed to entice people to book rooms to stay on property. If you had problems with the perk not being available or useful as an off site guest then you are the demographic that Disney is trying to entice to stay on site. I agree that there are things that perhaps could be done to relieve the crowd pressure more in the parks, but I'd bet that Disney doesn't see offering advanced booking of FP+ to off site guests as one of those solutions.

]So yeah, Disney is technically catering to on-site guests and rewarding them with advanced booking options.

FP+ is starting to be offered to off-site guest. There have been post for those that have been able to do so. Pre-booking FP+ was never meant to be a on-site perk. It has rolled out that way but will not remain that way in the end.

 

[mousehockey37]

FP+ is starting to be offered to off-site guest. There have been post for those that have been able to do so. Pre-booking FP+ was never meant to be a on-site perk. It has rolled out that way but will not remain that way in the end.

That may be true, but for right now it sure seems like a perk for onsite guests. This also goes hand in hand with what I said about them increasing the amount of FP+ that you have in a day.

It may take Disney at least 1-2 full years, if not longer, to gather the appropriate amount of data to look at adjusting those numbers. Why they started with 3 is beyond me but that is what we need to deal with for now.

If you dont like the current terms, just don't go! Speak with your vacation dollars!

 

[smitch425]

That may be true, but for right now it sure seems like a perk for onsite guests. This also goes hand in hand with what I said about them increasing the amount of FP+ that you have in a day.

It may take Disney at least 1-2 full years, if not longer, to gather the appropriate amount of data to look at adjusting those numbers. Why they started with 3 is beyond me but that is what we need to deal with for now.

If you dont like the current terms, just don't go! Speak with your vacation dollars!

Because studies showed that on average, guests used 2.5 FPs per day. I'm glad they rounded up.

 

[ethanwa]

Why FP+ is bad.
1) Resort guests can grab a lot of the best rides before you even enter the park.
2) You are limited to 3 rides. That's not enough, particularly when you can't always pick the 3 longest wait time rides.
3) Adds an extra step. If getting FP+ at the park, have to wait in line at kiosk and interact with human to get passes onto card. WHY?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
4) What problem is it fixing? We really liked the old fast pass system, and we felt like we always had a chance to go to all the rides.
5) It's a step backwards. The parks feel like the "bad old days" when all lines were long and you have to choose 2-3 "big name" rides to go on that day.
6) FP+ windows are now strict -- you can't come back to ride after window is over.
7) Worsens lines at big rides. If you can only FP+ one of the big ticket rides, what happens to the lines at those rides on average?
8) When inevitable technical difficulties close/delay a ride, you are praying that the ride will "know" to accept your FP+ when you return later. It's unclear how much later you can return.

First comment before I begin: You get what you pay for. If you wanted FP+, you should have booked onsite.

1) It won't be this way for long. They will roll out FP+ booking to offsite guests eventually. They are testing this now with select guests.

2) According to Disney, 3 FastPass+ rides in a day is more than what guests averaged with FastPass-, which was 2. So unless you are a super planner with FP (which it sounds like you are) then this is an improvement for most causal guests.

3) Again, if/when offsite gets FP+ advanced booking, this need goes away.

4) There are a LOT of problems FP+ is designed to fix, the biggest one being rope-drop-runs to FP machines. It gives guests an opportunity to go on Tier 1 (E-Ticket) rides that they may usually miss out on. I'm not saying FP+ is perfect, but it's not created "just because".

5) Change is hard for most people to deal with. That is why old people long of the "good old days" when "everything was simply". It's not true, it just feels that way because change is hard.

6) It was always supposed to be strict. You were never really supposed to come after your hour window, but people ignored it and so did Disney. Now it's enforced and I personally think this is great.

7) True. Disney's answer is "book a longer stay if you want FP+ for all the tier 1 rides". Personally I think this is a business decision on Disney's part to get people to stay longer.

8) True. Technical issues are one of the downsides. What happens though is that you are automatically sent an email when a ride is down and you get a free FP+ for any time the rest of the day for a number of other rides listed in the email. This has happened to me twice. One night Barnstormer went down and we got an email saying we could use it on 7 other rides, including Peter Pan's Flight, which had a 75 minute wait. We said OK! and walked right on that ride. The bonus is that it acted as a FORTH FP+.... our Barnstormer FP+ also still worked when the ride opened back up.

 

[shepd]

If you had problems with the perk not being available or useful as an off site guest then you are the demographic that Disney is trying to entice to stay on site.

As someone who is lactose intolerant (but happens to still enjoy milk), this is like trying to entice me to buy milk by pouring it on everything.

Some of us enjoy the Disney parks, but don't want 24x7 Disney. And some of us enjoy the Disney parks, but just don't earn a strong enough income to triple the cost of our hotel.

If Disney wants to attract me, they will need to create a resort that's under $50 a night (but isn't camping) and is not Disney themed. It also will need to offer a full kitchenette at that price. Other than that, everything else can be as bare bones as they want--I recall being happy in one hotel that actually had poured concrete walls!

Treating me as a second class citizen over it is the wrong approach and isn't encouraging me to visit Disney. It's encouraging me to ensure I maximize my experience today because tomorrow Disney just might sour me against the park enough (by trying to the stick instead of carrot approach to their resorts) that I just don't bother.

EDIT: I know that Disney won't create such a resort--and that's fine. I'm happy enough the way things are. But Disney... ...there's no need to be nasty about it.

 

[ethanwa]

they will need to create a resort that's under $50 a night (but isn't camping) and is not Disney themed

Please take no offense, but you are clearly not Disney's prime target audience. They just aren't going to make any money off of guests who want to pay so little for a hotel. And if you don't like the Disney themes, you probably aren't going to buy merchandise.

At least that is how someone inside Disney probably views customers such as yourself. To Disney, you probably really are a second-class citizen. In business, you target customers who make you the most money.

 

[Networth]

FP+ prebooking for now is a on-site perk. If you don't like it than stay on-site. I will never understand how someone does not understand Disney is pushing for on site occupancy. Look at all their TV ads, print ads, and even a new documentary on Destination America solely on the resorts.

For what they charge for rooms they need to give even more perks IMO. Do I Iike everything about the new FP system, hell no. Do I expect certain benefits because I pay higher rates for their hotels? You better believe it.

 

[catne]

OP, love your ride ideas, especially the idea of making "tamer" versions of some of the popular rides little kids cannot do. And love your ideas of re-theming duplicates of existing rides...that could be great fun (like a Muppets version of TSMM would be soooo funl)

Sorry you had a bad time with the FP+...we had a pretty good time with it on our January & February trips, but we were there during extremely low-crowd times.

Hopefully, next time you go they will have the book-ahead option for everyone, on-site and day guests. They are testing some now with people who are not Disney hotel guests so hope that means it'll be for everyone soon.

 

[mom2mickeyfan]

There was no advantage for staying on-site with paper FPs and guest still stayed on-site. Why would Disney believe they needed to make FP+ an on-site perk to get guest to stay on-site? All those other perks are still there. Yes, it has been a perk up to now but that is changing.

 

[magicbob]

Every day a new thread about FP+ and how negative it is.

Just ignore all of the negative FP+ threads. They all consist of the same tiny, vocal minority of 5 or 6 people saying the same thing over and over and over again. Except for those 5 or 6 people, everyone loves FP+!

 

[Dis703]

Sorry you didn't like the system. We are staying on property so we do have the advantage of making FP+ in advance. I can imagine it would be a pain for those staying offsite.

But to answer the point of what problem is this fixing while you may have loved the old system it didn't work very well for us.

With 3 young kids and a double stroller to push it was a huge pain to run across a park to pull FP for a ride only to find the return time hours later so we'd have to come back and forth multiple times to get our FP and ride the rides. Then you never know when one of the kids will have a meltdown or get sick or need a break so if it happened before our window too bad they couldn't be changed. Now I at least have that opportunity to move things around when we need. And we did that in the fall which was awesome. Never wasted a FP because we just moved our times and picked something else.

We also didn't get to do Soarin or TSM on past trips because we aren't morning people and they would be gone before we got to the parks. One hour plus waits are not going to happen with our boys so we missed them. Now we make those FP in advance.

It's not perfect for sure, but it does actually work well for some people while the old system really never worked well for some too. Sorry you found it not to your liking but I'm sure this isn't the way it will be in the end.

 

[DebbieB]

I can't imagine they'd offer offsite guests 6 rides with no restrictions, but only 3 with restrictions to onsite guests.

Sorry, those were 2 separate thoughts. I usually always quote but his (?) original post was too long.

First sentence was replying to the complaint that said offsite should get it.

Second sentence was replying to the suggestion that everyone should be allowed 6.

 

[wdw&sonny]

A few comments to get my 2c in ...

I haven't been since FP+ started, but I see the reason so many on these boards are complaining about it.

Disney has made adjustments to the FP system based on the "average" patron.

WE are not average. The people on these boards are the most informed. We learned from each other how to best use (abuse) the system...gathering FP- as quickly as we could, hoarding them for later in the day (prior to the time enforcement). We were spoiled.

The FP+ systems merely caps the ability to abuse the system. It levels the playing field so everyone can now have at least an opportunity to ride a couple of headliners, get a good spot for a parade or show.

If Disney chooses to offer a greater perk to on-site guest, that's their prerogative. After all, they own the parks and resorts. Universal does it!

Adding more attractions will not alleviate the crowds. It will just draw more people. If you think adding a new attraction will reduce waits at another ride, then extrapolating that analogy, we would be waiting much less now than we did in 2000, 1990, 1980...
New attractions draw more crowds, so you need more food venues, stores, parking, transportation, resorts, bathrooms, water fountains, trash cans...you can't just expand attractions without expanding all other resources, or the waits and prices go up.

Lastly, I remember how excited we were in the mid 1980s when we could arrive at EPCOT and book our dinner reservation in THE MORNING. Wow! technology sure is cool. Imagine, we won't have to wait in line for dinner (like those second class patrons) because we knew to reserve a table at the dining kiosk hours before our meal.

Again, like most on these boards, I prefer the old system...the one I could abuse at the expense of the less informed...but we were in the minority and Disney knew it. They made an adjustment to even things out.

 

[jcbubba]

I hear you guys. It's obvious Disney is doing two things: enticing you even more to stay on property and to stay longer (because it's now harder to do most of 1 park in 1 day). I get that. I just didn't know before going. We went to the park last December for the Very Merry and didn't have FP time windows enforced or use FP+ at that time. So it was a surprise, which is my fault, but really how could I have known? Maybe the people staying on property got notices, but I wasn't staying on property, so I had no idea.

Some have said we were previously abusing the system. How? By arriving past the time window on the paper tickets? That doesn't really seem like an abuse. (and if it really was the only issue, the answer is simple -- just enforce the time windows! i certainly wouldn't have had a problem with that.) To answer an above poster -- we have small kids and had strollers in the past too. One of us would go alone to get all the fast passes. So a predetermined FP+ time is great, but at least for those staying off property or those who are slow to plan, there was always a "safety valve" -- just show up at park open and you get one freebie ride (more than one at MK). No longer.

I don't mind change -- the original FP was great! As people have pointed out, Disney is basically forcing power users to act like casual users. I guess that's fine, but it was a bit of a shock and when you plan for the trip in advance it's hard to backtrack and say "Well, guys, we planned for 3 days but need 5 now to do everything." I also don't mind FP+ if we can all book in advance and avoid the kiosk.

To clarify a previous point -- I wasn't saying resort guests could choose 3 in advance and non-resorters 6. I was saying people staying off property could choose 6 on the day they arrive at the park. Resort guests could pick 3 in advance and 3 on the day they arrive at the park. To accomplish this, you halve the time window from 1 hour to 30 minutes. Heck, for the best rides make the time window 15 minutes!

We still had a great time! We still rode basically everything we wanted! It was just noticeably more stressful and more walking around. The only things we were shut out of were TSMM altogether and Soarin' on the 2nd Epcot trip (got a FP+ for it on the first day, but Soarin' FP+ was out by 30 minutes after park open on the 2nd day we were there and waits were 70-105 minutes all day). FYI -- I never got any emails regarding technical difficulties on rides, so that might be case-by-case.

And believe me, I am much more likely to stay on property now. I just didn't realize that FP+ was going to completely replace the paper system. And I know the system is "in progress" -- Disney will surely make tweaks that improve things.

The other problem with FP+ is that it will turn into what is currently the case for ADRs -- only the people who book precisely when the reservation window opens will have the optimal experience. ADRs severely impede casual users from eating at the table-service restaurants. Will eventually FP+ do the same? You have to not only stay on property, but ALSO plan like a military operation to be able to go on the rides? The difference with ADRs is that there is a cheaper faster alternative at the parks -- counter service. But with FP+ if you get shut out of the top tier rides, you don't get a discount on your park entry.

Imagine if the table service restaurants had the same prices as counter service. Resort guests with ADRs would get most of the reservations. The casual users would be stuck paying the same prices for a lower level of food service. And people would say "Just plan better. Just stay on property." As I said, TSMM offered ZERO fast passes to guests at the kiosks on the day of park entry -- on a Monday in early March, Hollywood Studios had given all the FP+ to resort guests. Doesn't seem to be Disney's style, but I definitely take it as a lesson learned. I really like staying on property, so I'm happy to do that if it gets me an advantage at FP+, but I really don't like planning with military precision. Sometimes you don't know 60 days in advance what you're in the mood for. Maybe your kid is feeling sick in the morning -- too bad your Tower of Terror res is at 10am and not 4pm, because you decided that 60 days ago. Too bad your kids got hungry at 3pm and needed a snack -- you're having a giant character meal at 4:30pm. Obviously these are nitpicks, but I think they're valid. And like I said, if capacity goes up, some of these problems become smaller....

 

[wdwguy50]

A few comments to get my 2c in ... I haven't been since FP+ started, but I see the reason so many on these boards are complaining about it. Disney has made adjustments to the FP system based on the "average" patron. WE are not average. The people on these boards are the most informed. We learned from each other how to best use (abuse) the system...gathering FP- as quickly as we could, hoarding them for later in the day (prior to the time enforcement). We were spoiled. The FP+ systems merely caps the ability to abuse the system. It levels the playing field so everyone can now have at least an opportunity to ride a couple of headliners, get a good spot for a parade or show. If Disney chooses to offer a greater perk to on-site guest, that's their prerogative. After all, they own the parks and resorts. Universal does it! Adding more attractions will not alleviate the crowds. It will just draw more people. If you think adding a new attraction will reduce waits at another ride, then extrapolating that analogy, we would be waiting much less now than we did in 2000, 1990, 1980... New attractions draw more crowds, so you need more food venues, stores, parking, transportation, resorts, bathrooms, water fountains, trash cans...you can't just expand attractions without expanding all other resources, or the waits and prices go up. Lastly, I remember how excited we were in the mid 1980s when we could arrive at EPCOT and book our dinner reservation in THE MORNING. Wow! technology sure is cool. Imagine, we won't have to wait in line for dinner (like those second class patrons) because we knew to reserve a table at the dining kiosk hours before our meal. Again, like most on these boards, I prefer the old system...the one I could abuse at the expense of the less informed...but we were in the minority and Disney knew it. They made an adjustment to even things out.

Bravo! We'll said°O°

Sent from my iPad using DISBoards

 

[jcbubba]

Bravo! We'll said°O°

Sent from my iPad using DISBoards

I agree! But if adding attractions will increase attendance, isn't that what Disney wants?!?!?!

The problem is that people can be "occupied" in numerous ways at a park. Ride, show, walking, eatery, in a line, bathroom, shop, parade, etc. Time in a line is bad. No one likes that time, even if they make that time better by adding amusements/distractions like the Test Track design-a-car area. How do you occupy those people otherwise? Convince them to go to other rides (FP+), add capacity to high-demand rides, or increase the number of non-ride options to do. Disney doesn't want crowded walkways or lines any more than we do. And they CAN'T increase attendance overall until they unclog those walkways and lines to attract more guests. So you are right it's an arms race. I just want Disney to be faster about improving capacity. They are "losing" the arms race during the summer and high-peak seasons and also at the highest-demand rides.

 

[mousehockey37]

Just ignore all of the negative FP+ threads. They all consist of the same tiny, vocal minority of 5 or 6 people saying the same thing over and over and over again. Except for those 5 or 6 people, everyone loves FP+!

Good one.