Fast Pass Improvement Idea

[jayandstacey]

My husband spends all our time in WDW telling me exactly this. "they'd rather have you walking around spending money on merchandise, food, etc than standing in line with your wallet in your pocket, THATS why there are fast passes, not for our conveniences...just so we will spend more money" And he's right!

More than that, it forces one to visit the ride twice, yet only ride once. I'd bet a lot of money on the idea that a more money is made in a shop where everyone walks by twice than a shop where everyone walks by once...

Prior to FP, the 'wise' touring plan involved just going around the park, hitting everything once. Now, you do at least SOME backtracking, and usually for the rides in the futhest corners of the park. So while your time (say, 8 hours) might be the same, you're passing...what...maybe 50% more shop windows? 50% more ice cream stands?

Yes, Disney also wants us to stand in line less and yes, this aspect also increases our shopping time. But that criss-cross is the magic key.

 

[reallybadeggs]

Exactly Disney may market the FP system as "saving your place in line" but what they are really doing is getting you out of line to spend money someplace else.

The idea is really genius. I really wish the parks around here would adopt something similar.

My husband spends all our time in WDW telling me exactly this. "they'd rather have you walking around spending money on merchandise, food, etc than standing in line with your wallet in your pocket, THATS why there are fast passes, not for our conveniences...just so we will spend more money" And he's right!

It is truly awesome that there are so many people on DisBoards with strong opinions on so many topics. However, sometimes the opinions seem to be formulated without much basis.

Do I think for a minute that Disney ever makes a decision without the good of the Walt Disney Company in mind? NO. However, to say that Disney has implemented a "guest experience improvement" idea, like the FP, SOLELY to increase it's bottom line and not for any other reason is a bit.....well, ignorant??? (sorry)

First off, if you wanted to break down the total number of people in any given park that would be standing in any line if there were no such thing as the FP vs. the number of people that would be in line with the FP system, I don't know that the number would be any less. If there is a one-hour wait at TSM and 15 minute wait in the FP line, do you think there would be much more than a 1 hour and 15 minute wait if there were no FP?

When the typical guest exits a ride that they just used a FP on (say BTM), I'm guessing that they would tend to head for another ride, perhaps one that doesn't use the FP (say POTC). In the meantime, the would likely be grabbing another FP (for say SplMtn). I don't think they would say, wow, that only took 10 minutes, we saved 40 minutes by not standing in the standby line, lets go eat or shop. The FP system (when used efficiently) allows and educated guest to ride more rides more times and thus increases their overall experience in the park, thus bringing them back to the park more often.

If a guest gets a FP (for say Space Mtn) and the "use time" of the FP is not for an hour, I doubt most guests will say, "let's go spend more money while we are waiting" or "hey kids let's go into the gift shop for 50 minutes, I've got a wad of cash burning a hole in my pocket". It's more likely that they would hit the restroom, ride the People Mover and maybe stand in line for AO.

Most people, I would guess, come to the park with a certain amount of money that they are willing to spend on souvenirs and food (and let's face it, with FD, you can only eat so much). A FP is not going to make them spend more money.

I will agree, that giving the guest a better overall experience and an opportunity to utilized THEIR time in a more efficient and self-serving manner will give them a much more pleasant experience and offer a much higher chance of them coming back. By getting them to come back, yes, Disney makes more money.

But, I highly doubt that the FP was put into place to get guests to spend more on food and merchandise with THE CONVENIENCE OF THE GUEST BEING A SIDE EFFECT.

 

[jayandstacey]

But, I highly doubt that the FP was put into place to get guests to spend more on food and merchandise with THE CONVENIENCE OF THE GUEST BEING A SIDE EFFECT.

I agree that the guest experience is important in Disney. But flip the question - would they have allowed FP if the studies/tests showed it decreased spending?

I suspect not. And I know I don't go into the parks with a set budget for purchases. How many go your way, and how many go mine? I don't know. But I'm confident the FP system helps pull money from my pocket.

 

[jayandstacey]

I agree that the guest experience is important in Disney. But flip the question - would they have allowed FP if the studies/tests showed it decreased spending?

To flip the question once again - what is convenient about having to walk through both the car exhibit then the gift shop after riding Test Track? I find it annoying AND another 50 yards of walking. Yet Disney deems it best for me, and the toy cars are all right at eye level for my kids.

 

[cruisingkat]

And in my second thread-meandering question, Cruisingkat, do you find the fastpass & line info to be pretty accurate on that app?

I have four different apps on my Droid - Ride Hopper, Lines, and Undercover Tourist and Mobile Magic. I found Mobile Magic to be the most accurate - in fact on our trips over the past month, it was the only app I used. I found the fast pass info to be extremely accurate.

 

[seashoreCM]

With fastpasses the total amount of time spent in line by all guests combined is less, compared with no fastpasses.

More (optional): http://www.cockam.com/fastsave.htm

For a given number of guests, when the total amount of time spent by all guests combined is less then the total amount of time spent by all guests in stores and restaurants and in front of store windows is more.

More (optional, quotation marks required): Google "law of large numbers"

This can be interpreted as a primary guest benefit that provides trickle down benefits (a side effect) to Disney as a company, which is a perfectly good approach.

Compared with a strategy that provides primary benefits to the company which in turn provides trickle down benefits to the guests.

 

[epcot.girl]

But, I highly doubt that the FP was put into place to get guests to spend more on food and merchandise with THE CONVENIENCE OF THE GUEST BEING A SIDE EFFECT.

FP was intended to get people out of lines and into shops and restaurants, spending their money. Unfortunately for Disney it often just gets people out of one line and into another for a different ride.

Just because people use FP in a certain way (to allow more time for other rides) it doesn't mean that that's what Disney intended.

 

[reallybadeggs]

With fastpasses the total amount of time spent in line by all guests combined is less, compared with no fastpasses.

More (optional): http://www.cockam.com/fastsave.htm].

First, I'd like to say that the name of this web site "cockam"amie is quite appropo. There is a lot of conjecture and fuzzy math involved. Even with a cursory overview, the assumptions are not close to accurate in their calculations. Honestly, it would likely take an algorithm to figure out how much time is spent in line with or without a FP in place. That formula would need to include such things as "Additonal time spent in line at the FP machine", "Additional time spent walking (sometimes across the park) to get to a FP machine), "Additonal time in line at a non-FP ride", etc, etc... The equation on the "cockam" web site is very simplistic, and inherently faulty.

This can be interpreted as a primary guest benefit that provides trickle down benefits to Disney as a company, which is a perfectly good approach.

Compared with a strategy that provides primary benefits to the company which in turn provides trickle down benefits to the guests.

I think these two lines are very intuitive and sum up, at least what I think, were Disney's intentions from the outset. I do believe the primary intention was to give the guest a benefit with the intention (albeit, perhaps to a lesser degree than predicted) of getting the guests out of line and into their pocketbooks.

Okay, so with Disney's intentions notwithstanding, I apologize for the disgression, but let's get back to the topic of making a change to the FP system becasue it NEEDS it and discuss how much better the system would be if I could get my KS at EE so that by the time I rode EE and walked to KS, my FP would be active.

 

[mattsdragon]

Ok, so you want to get back on topic. . .

This is all just a matter of opinion, and clearly people are going to get slightly less than rational when they feel that their opinion isn't being paid the respect they feel it deserves.

You have brought forth a concept that you feel would improve the current FP system.

Others have produced evidence that would seem to be contrary to your proposal.

Then the fighting starts.

I see no reason to get back on topic, this topic seems to be evolving just like every other topic on the DIS.

I'm just waiting for the tears, fighting and gnashing of teeth.

 

[reallybadeggs]

Ok, so you want to get back on topic. . .

This is all just a matter of opinion, and clearly people are going to get slightly less than rational when they feel that their opinion isn't being paid the respect they feel it deserves.

You have brought forth a concept that you feel would improve the current FP system.

Others have produced evidence that would seem to be contrary to your proposal.

Then the fighting starts.

I see no reason to get back on topic, this topic seems to be evolving just like every other topic on the DIS.

I'm just waiting for the tears, fighting and gnashing of teeth.

Okay, sooooooo you're the guy who walks into an Anti-War demonstration sporting an "I Love Ghandi" T-shirt and proceeds to throw a granade.

 

[Reddog1134]

Ok, so you want to get back on topic. . .

This is all just a matter of opinion, and clearly people are going to get slightly less than rational when they feel that their opinion isn't being paid the respect they feel it deserves.

You have brought forth a concept that you feel would improve the current FP system.

Others have produced evidence that would seem to be contrary to your proposal.

Then the fighting starts.

I see no reason to get back on topic, this topic seems to be evolving just like every other topic on the DIS.

I'm just waiting for the tears, fighting and gnashing of teeth.

Agreed.

I feel that the OP doesn't want a discussion on his idea. He just wants to be told he is right and will confront anyone that does not agree.

 

[KSDisneyDad]

Time to bring out the popcorn.

 

[jayandstacey]

I've given it some thought and am having a tough time coming up with improvements to the FP system that are NET better. Having "any FP, any machine" would be really good for me, but might make crowds worse - and might not be good for Disney. So, that's not perfect.

I've commented elsewhere that in some specific instances, the FP line might be better situated, as it can give the wrong PERCEPTION of unfairness to those not in the FP line. But as we all know, that perception is wrong, and so there's no sense investing in improvements to fix that.

So maybe this "FP from home" idea would be nice. I'd only hope there would be some kind of failsafes in the system...

- That there not be a cost to the FP perk, but that it be tied to certain commitments from the guests - like, you prove you've already purchased a park ticket. In a way, this gives Disney some visibility to future park attendance that they don't have now...which I'm sure they would LOVE.

- That Disney have a provision that 'credits' the FP system if you don't show up - so that the pool of FPs aren't completely spent on no-shows.

- That the home-based FP be a little different from the regular FPs in terms of time overlap/how many you can have. So maybe a family can only get one "home FP" for each day - but once in the park, they can get other FPs, for any other FP rides, but maybe not as often as people without the home FP could.

- That the home based FP be managable online with an intuitive interface that doesn't require CM help. KISS.

 

[jayandstacey]

OK, maybe here's an improvement idea that might be win-win:

Make a FP app. The FP would be controlled by the app, and the app would know the park status at any time. A few things this app could do:

- offer simple alerts: real time FP line lengths for all rides; the window for YOUR fastpass is opening (or closing); you are now eligible to get a FP for ride X at Ypm.
- offer occasional trades, call it FP (crowd) management - like "your FP for soarin is now usable, but there is a 20 minute line. Would you rather it be a FP for test track, where there is only a 5 min line? Click here to take the trade."
- offer occasional "reward" FPs - like a FP to ride EE late in the day if you visted Rafiki's Planet Watch during peak hours. These would be random perks that could help crowd flow while also encouraging people to stay in the parks.
- allow the app to manage group FPs. A group representative might go to the Soarin FP area (the phone coordinates would pick this up) and then from the phone allow 100 FPs to go to the group.

The app could generate a bar code when the user enters the FP line, and scanning the bar code would 'use' the FP. Not sure precisely how this would work for a group...but maybe the FP says "For 25" and then the CM standing at the front of the FP line counts 25 in the group.

It isn't perfect, but it could be really neat for those willing to play the game.

 

[jade1]

OK, maybe here's an improvement idea that might be win-win:

Make a FP app. The FP would be controlled by the app, and the app would know the park status at any time. A few things this app could do:

- offer simple alerts: real time FP line lengths for all rides; the window for YOUR fastpass is opening (or closing); you are now eligible to get a FP for ride X at Ypm.
- offer occasional trades, call it FP (crowd) management - like "your FP for soarin is now usable, but there is a 20 minute line. Would you rather it be a FP for test track, where there is only a 5 min line? Click here to take the trade."
- offer occasional "reward" FPs - like a FP to ride EE late in the day if you visted Rafiki's Planet Watch during peak hours. These would be random perks that could help crowd flow while also encouraging people to stay in the parks.
- allow the app to manage group FPs. A group representative might go to the Soarin FP area (the phone coordinates would pick this up) and then from the phone allow 100 FPs to go to the group.

The app could generate a bar code when the user enters the FP line, and scanning the bar code would 'use' the FP. Not sure precisely how this would work for a group...but maybe the FP says "For 25" and then the CM standing at the front of the FP line counts 25 in the group.

It isn't perfect, but it could be really neat for those willing to play the game.

See now your talking.

 

[reallybadeggs]

Time to bring out the popcorn.

Nah, keep the corn on the husk. I refuse to get involved in flaming/argumentative banter, doesn't add much to the disscussion and honestly, just kills the thread.

 

[jade1]

So maybe this "FP from home" idea would be nice. I'd only hope there would be some kind of failsafes in the system...

- That Disney have a provision that 'credits' the FP system if you don't show up - so that the pool of FPs aren't completely spent on no-shows.

- That the home-based FP be a little different from the regular FPs in terms of time overlap/how many you can have. So maybe a family can only get one "home FP" for each day - but once in the park, they can get other FPs, for any other FP rides, but maybe not as often as people without the home FP could.

- That the home based FP be managable online with an intuitive interface that doesn't require CM help. KISS.

All good-as for not showing up for a home FP-same as now-the standby goes faster. I would take 3 per day (maybe even 2) from home and be locked out of "in park" FP's if that would help.

 

[kmk1180]

OK, maybe here's an improvement idea that might be win-win:

Make a FP app. The FP would be controlled by the app, and the app would know the park status at any time. A few things this app could do:

1. - offer simple alerts: real time FP line lengths for all rides; the window for YOUR fastpass is opening (or closing); you are now eligible to get a FP for ride X at Ypm.
2. - offer occasional trades, call it FP (crowd) management - like "your FP for soarin is now usable, but there is a 20 minute line. Would you rather it be a FP for test track, where there is only a 5 min line? Click here to take the trade."
3. - offer occasional "reward" FPs - like a FP to ride EE late in the day if you visted Rafiki's Planet Watch during peak hours. These would be random perks that could help crowd flow while also encouraging people to stay in the parks.
4. - allow the app to manage group FPs. A group representative might go to the Soarin FP area (the phone coordinates would pick this up) and then from the phone allow 100 FPs to go to the group.

The app could generate a bar code when the user enters the FP line, and scanning the bar code would 'use' the FP. Not sure precisely how this would work for a group...but maybe the FP says "For 25" and then the CM standing at the front of the FP line counts 25 in the group.

It isn't perfect, but it could be really neat for those willing to play the game.

People have a hard time understanding the simple system now..
and you want to add conditions to it?
if you think this thread turned to an argument can you imagine the dozens of thread from people who were upset at the FP system because it didn't do what they thought it would do.
(all because they didn't understand it)

ok thought, but not very realistic to apply to the masses to understand.


here's what would happen.

1. "but that ride is on the other side of the park, I don't want that ride why can't I have ....."

2. "why can't have I both?"

3. "we were already at Rafiki this morning you didn't tell us then now we have to go back again?"

4. and everyone else standing there would be upset FP's went from 5pm to gone with one person.

overall, you'd have a lot of ticked people because they didn't understand or didn't know how it worked.
And while alot of people have "smart phones" not everyone does. And this plan would require you to not only have that but have the nessessary programs.
Too many people would be left out of any chance.

The current system is simple...keep it simple.

 

[reallybadeggs]

OK, maybe here's an improvement idea that might be win-win:

Make a FP app. The FP would be controlled by the app, and the app would know the park status at any time. A few things this app could do:

- offer simple alerts: real time FP line lengths for all rides; the window for YOUR fastpass is opening (or closing); you are now eligible to get a FP for ride X at Ypm.
- offer occasional trades, call it FP (crowd) management - like "your FP for soarin is now usable, but there is a 20 minute line. Would you rather it be a FP for test track, where there is only a 5 min line? Click here to take the trade."
- offer occasional "reward" FPs - like a FP to ride EE late in the day if you visted Rafiki's Planet Watch during peak hours. These would be random perks that could help crowd flow while also encouraging people to stay in the parks.
- allow the app to manage group FPs. A group representative might go to the Soarin FP area (the phone coordinates would pick this up) and then from the phone allow 100 FPs to go to the group.

The app could generate a bar code when the user enters the FP line, and scanning the bar code would 'use' the FP. Not sure precisely how this would work for a group...but maybe the FP says "For 25" and then the CM standing at the front of the FP line counts 25 in the group.

It isn't perfect, but it could be really neat for those willing to play the game.

Wow, some serious thought and effort put in here. The "reward" perks could make a lot of sense in the "crowd management" concept. I have gotten VIP seats to Playhouse Disney while getting a FP to VOTLM (kinda the same idea).

I like the "trade" app idea, maybe some physical "swap" locations so that people can swap hard FPs with others. There is a lot of weight placed on guests having the necessary apps though.

 

[kmk1180]

I've given it some thought and am having a tough time coming up with improvements to the FP system that are NET better. Having "any FP, any machine" would be really good for me, but might make crowds worse - and might not be good for Disney. So, that's not perfect.

I've commented elsewhere that in some specific instances, the FP line might be better situated, as it can give the wrong PERCEPTION of unfairness to those not in the FP line. But as we all know, that perception is wrong, and so there's no sense investing in improvements to fix that.

So maybe this "FP from home" idea would be nice. I'd only hope there would be some kind of failsafes in the system...

- That there not be a cost to the FP perk, but that it be tied to certain commitments from the guests - like, you prove you've already purchased a park ticket. In a way, this gives Disney some visibility to future park attendance that they don't have now...which I'm sure they would LOVE.

- That Disney have a provision that 'credits' the FP system if you don't show up - so that the pool of FPs aren't completely spent on no-shows.

- That the home-based FP be a little different from the regular FPs in terms of time overlap/how many you can have. So maybe a family can only get one "home FP" for each day - but once in the park, they can get other FPs, for any other FP rides, but maybe not as often as people without the home FP could.

- That the home based FP be managable online with an intuitive interface that doesn't require CM help. KISS.

I disagree..FP from home would a disaster.
People would snatch up dozens with different e-mails, different computers
but same group.
In the end only cheaters would end up with them then people who actually went to the parks and rides would only get there to find out FP's gone shortly after rope drop if not before.

I've seen this time and time again.
lots of web sites have online photo/video contests and many are the person with the most votes wins.
almost without fail they end up going to someone who cheated by using programs that allow them to get through the system or rig voting in some way.
So the prize (in this case FP) never goes to the deserving but to the cheater.
same thing would happen here.