Fake service dog gear creates problems for Americans with disabilities

[LockShockBarrel]

I can see problems with this. Think of the person who posted here that her family pet, a King Charles Spaniel, developed the ability to warn her of her daughter's seizures. I don't not know the dog or people involved, but what if the family pet isn't that well trained or doesn't like strangers? It doesn't make that dog any less a service dog! It is performing an invaluable service to its disabled owner and should qualify as such under the law.

It doesn't though. Its a bit of fuzziness in the law. A service animal is one who is trained to mitigate a disability, a dog that is specifically task trained. The fuzziness is that in that, it's expected that if the dog is to be taken out in public it can behave properly, not just perform its "task". Dogs trained through accredited schools receive that training like basic sit, down, stay as well as learning from a very early age what's expected of them while out in public, like not approaching other people or picking food up off the floor. That also includes not being afraid or "not liking" strangers. It's unacceptable to take a dog that is afraid or aggressive to strangers into a public situation even if it can still do it's trained or learned task.

All that being said, there's nothing stopping an at home trainer from properly training their dog to behave the same way, they just can't take them into malls or stores like a true puppy in training. The issue that comes in is while a dog may notice something like seizure warnings at home and does her good behavior at home, what happens when you take them into a situation like Disney that's completely overwhelming to even humans that are used to being around large crowds with lights and sounds and smells, now you've put that dog into a situation it doesn't understand. Will it be able to perform it's task? Maybe, but certainly not as well as a dog that grew up being exposed to stimuli like that for the express purpose that it was always going to grow up to be a service dog and didn't just happen into it. I would expect a home trained dog to not be able to handle something like that, but in that it doesn't make it right to put them in that situation where now its probably going to be either very afraid or very guarded and put someone or even the property at risk because that dog hasn't been trained how to handle that situation.

 

[livndisney]

Oddly enough, I just read in the Orlando Sentinel where someone feels that if his dog is well behaved and it "makes him feel better" he should be allowed to take it where ever we wants to as long as the business owner says it is ok and the government should not be "sticking it's nose" into it.

 

[snarlingcoyote]

It doesn't though. Its a bit of fuzziness in the law. A service animal is one who is trained to mitigate a disability, a dog that is specifically task trained. The fuzziness is that in that, it's expected that if the dog is to be taken out in public it can behave properly, not just perform its "task". Dogs trained through accredited schools receive that training like basic sit, down, stay as well as learning from a very early age what's expected of them while out in public, like not approaching other people or picking food up off the floor. That also includes not being afraid or "not liking" strangers. It's unacceptable to take a dog that is afraid or aggressive to strangers into a public situation even if it can still do it's trained or learned task.

All that being said, there's nothing stopping an at home trainer from properly training their dog to behave the same way, they just can't take them into malls or stores like a true puppy in training. The issue that comes in is while a dog may notice something like seizure warnings at home and does her good behavior at home, what happens when you take them into a situation like Disney that's completely overwhelming to even humans that are used to being around large crowds with lights and sounds and smells, now you've put that dog into a situation it doesn't understand. Will it be able to perform it's task? Maybe, but certainly not as well as a dog that grew up being exposed to stimuli like that for the express purpose that it was always going to grow up to be a service dog and didn't just happen into it. I would expect a home trained dog to not be able to handle something like that, but in that it doesn't make it right to put them in that situation where now its probably going to be either very afraid or very guarded and put someone or even the property at risk because that dog hasn't been trained how to handle that situation.

I've only ever had to train 2 dogs, but when my GSD was a puppy and learning how to behave, I was able to find plenty of highly social places that are loud and full of people where we could go. (Thanks to her breeder, who said that it's best for dogs to learn how to behave in public!) I started with puppy play dates at local dog parks, then progressed to active times at local dog parks, then moved onto parks that allow dogs but aren't dog parks. I threw in trips to pet stores, especially when they were really busy and loud and full of rescue groups with cats.

The result is that I have a GSD who behaves better in public than she does at home.

Seriously, though, there's no reason most dogs can't be acclimated to loud, busy social situations (there are exceptions, of course: our rescue BC mix was agoraphobic if she was out of sight of our GSD for a good 5 or so years.) in the course of just a normal education on How to Be a Good Dog.

So to me, it would seem that a home-trained service dog could also learn to be around loud situations that are full of people and even other species even without the benefit of a certifying organization if a big ole' house potato dog whose biggest job is bringing joy to her people can do it.

 

[Michigan]

It doesn't though. Its a bit of fuzziness in the law. A service animal is one who is trained to mitigate a disability, a dog that is specifically task trained. The fuzziness is that in that, it's expected that if the dog is to be taken out in public it can behave properly, not just perform its "task". Dogs trained through accredited schools receive that training like basic sit, down, stay as well as learning from a very early age what's expected of them while out in public, like not approaching other people or picking food up off the floor. That also includes not being afraid or "not liking" strangers. It's unacceptable to take a dog that is afraid or aggressive to strangers into a public situation even if it can still do it's trained or learned task.

All that being said, there's nothing stopping an at home trainer from properly training their dog to behave the same way, they just can't take them into malls or stores like a true puppy in training. The issue that comes in is while a dog may notice something like seizure warnings at home and does her good behavior at home, what happens when you take them into a situation like Disney that's completely overwhelming to even humans that are used to being around large crowds with lights and sounds and smells, now you've put that dog into a situation it doesn't understand. Will it be able to perform it's task? Maybe, but certainly not as well as a dog that grew up being exposed to stimuli like that for the express purpose that it was always going to grow up to be a service dog and didn't just happen into it. I would expect a home trained dog to not be able to handle something like that, but in that it doesn't make it right to put them in that situation where now its probably going to be either very afraid or very guarded and put someone or even the property at risk because that dog hasn't been trained how to handle that situation.

We don't take her into public because my daughter is not alone when she is in public and she has her wheelchair seat belt on so I don't worry about not knowing when or if she will have a seizure and harm herself. However, I need and she needs the dog to be there when she is sleeping or out of her chair in our motorhome. I can say without a shadow of a doubt that the dog saved my daughters life when she had her last seizure. The dog barked and ran back and forth between her room and mine so I jumped out of bed ran to her room to find her having a seizure face down in vomit and blood (she always bites her tongue). Once I get to my daughter the dog lays on the floor at the bottom of the bed.

For those complaining about dogs in public places don't go to Alaska. In Alaska all dogs are allowed in all public places.

 

[livndisney]

My issue is that people have allergies and dog phobias. I personally have an anaphylactic cat allergy yet am forced to possibly sit near a cat that is allowed to ride in the airplane cabin. Should I and many others have to live in fear, or fear of death because everyone wants to train their pet to be helpful with their medical problem and cart them everywhere? I just don't see why a diabetic dog that helps at night needs to be allowed in the grocery store or even hotels. Just check your sugar in the middle of the night for those few days instead of leaving dog dander all over the place to provoke future guests' allergies and asthma. Or stay in a pet-friendly hotel and board your dog during the day. I think people with disabilities need to realize that they need to look at the big picture and not take a mile when they only need an inch...especially when it prevents others from enjoying the experience as well.

Fear of dogs or allergies is not a reason to ask a service animal to leave a business per the ADA. As far as you being "forced" to sit next to a cat-that has nothing to do with a service animal since cats are not recognized as service animals. IF you ever found yourself sitting next to a cat on a plane, speak to the attendant and ask to be reseated. When you make your reservation tell them of your allergy.

 

[SueM in MN]

Every time this issue is brought up, people think the answer is for the disabled person to give "more". (In this case have to pay for and provide certificates).

I think businesses should use more common sense. In the two recent cases I mentioned the animals involved were puppies. Common sense says if a less than 6 month old puppy is not even potty trained-how can it be a trained service animal? (And these were not SA "in training" animals)

If more businesses understood what they could ask, it would make it harder for the "fake" service animals to have access. (No, it won't stop all of them).

If businesses (including WDW) would actually remove animals that are growing, jumping and snapping at guests (Per the ADA a service animal can be removed if misbehaving), it could help cut down on "fakers".

I agree with this and agree that $5000 would be an unreasonable expense for many people with disabilities.
Many are on fixed incomes and could not afford that much money (plus feeding and veterinary care for a dog).

Companies need to realize that they do have the right to tell someone with a badly behaving or out of control dog tht the dog is not welcome.
Here's a link to the ADA summary about Service Dogs:
http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

And this is a quote of specific language I am thinking of:
"A person with a disability cannot be asked to remove his service animal from the premises unless: (1) the dog is out of control and the handler does not take effective action to control it or (2) the dog is not housebroken. When there is a legitimate reason to ask that a service animal be removed, staff must offer the person with the disability the opportunity to obtain goods or services without the animal’s presence."
So, there is an option to tell someone with a misbehaving dog that they must remove it. Businesses need to know they can do it, how to do it and document it so the business can feel like they are protected and won't get sued.

There is also consideration for allergies in the ADA; a person with an allergy needs to make their allergy known so both people's rights can be protected:
"Allergies and fear of dogs are not valid reasons for denying access or refusing service to people using service animals. When a person who is allergic to dog dander and a person who uses a service animal must spend time in the same room or facility, for example, in a school classroom or at a homeless shelter, they both should be accommodated by assigning them, if possible, to different locations within the room or different rooms in the facility."

I can see problems with this. Think of the person who posted here that her family pet, a King Charles Spaniel, developed the ability to warn her of her daughter's seizures. I don't not know the dog or people involved, but what if the family pet isn't that well trained or doesn't like strangers? It doesn't make that dog any less a service dog! It is performing an invaluable service to its disabled owner and should qualify as such under the law.

But, to be a Service Dog, it still needs to be well behaved. The dog may be providing a service, but if it is not prepared to behave well in public, it won't be effective and could be a danger.

I've only ever had to train 2 dogs, but when my GSD was a puppy and learning how to behave, I was able to find plenty of highly social places that are loud and full of people where we could go. (Thanks to her breeder, who said that it's best for dogs to learn how to behave in public!) I started with puppy play dates at local dog parks, then progressed to active times at local dog parks, then moved onto parks that allow dogs but aren't dog parks. I threw in trips to pet stores, especially when they were really busy and loud and full of rescue groups with cats.

The result is that I have a GSD who behaves better in public than she does at home.

Seriously, though, there's no reason most dogs can't be acclimated to loud, busy social situations (there are exceptions, of course: our rescue BC mix was agoraphobic if she was out of sight of our GSD for a good 5 or so years.) in the course of just a normal education on How to Be a Good Dog.

So to me, it would seem that a home-trained service dog could also learn to be around loud situations that are full of people and even other species even without the benefit of a certifying organization if a big ole' house potato dog whose biggest job is bringing joy to her people can do it.

I agree that a home trained dog can be as well trained as an agency trained dog.
Many states do have provisions for allowing access to Service Dogs in training.

 

[LockShockBarrel]

I've only ever had to train 2 dogs, but when my GSD was a puppy and learning how to behave, I was able to find plenty of highly social places that are loud and full of people where we could go. (Thanks to her breeder, who said that it's best for dogs to learn how to behave in public!) I started with puppy play dates at local dog parks, then progressed to active times at local dog parks, then moved onto parks that allow dogs but aren't dog parks. I threw in trips to pet stores, especially when they were really busy and loud and full of rescue groups with cats.

The result is that I have a GSD who behaves better in public than she does at home.

Seriously, though, there's no reason most dogs can't be acclimated to loud, busy social situations (there are exceptions, of course: our rescue BC mix was agoraphobic if she was out of sight of our GSD for a good 5 or so years.) in the course of just a normal education on How to Be a Good Dog.

So to me, it would seem that a home-trained service dog could also learn to be around loud situations that are full of people and even other species even without the benefit of a certifying organization if a big ole' house potato dog whose biggest job is bringing joy to her people can do it.

I didn't meant to imply theres no way at all for a home trained dog to be socialized. There's lot of places like you said, but most service dog puppies in training are with their trainer at every point in the day, at home, at the doctor, at the mall, etc etc. This is just something a home trained dog won't get to experience. My point really was that's where the school trained dogs have the hand up.

We don't take her into public because my daughter is not alone when she is in public and she has her wheelchair seat belt on so I don't worry about not knowing when or if she will have a seizure and harm herself. However, I need and she needs the dog to be there when she is sleeping or out of her chair in our motorhome. I can say without a shadow of a doubt that the dog saved my daughters life when she had her last seizure. The dog barked and ran back and forth between her room and mine so I jumped out of bed ran to her room to find her having a seizure face down in vomit and blood (she always bites her tongue). Once I get to my daughter the dog lays on the floor at the bottom of the bed.

For those complaining about dogs in public places don't go to Alaska. In Alaska all dogs are allowed in all public places.

I don't know why you quoted me here. I have no issue with a dog that provides a service at home and you considering that a service dog. It still doesn't change the fact that if you were to take that dog in public and present it as a service dog, it'd be expected to behave a certain way.

 

[aubriee]

I can see problems with this. Think of the person who posted here that her family pet, a King Charles Spaniel, developed the ability to warn her of her daughter's seizures. I don't not know the dog or people involved, but what if the family pet isn't that well trained or doesn't like strangers? It doesn't make that dog any less a service dog! It is performing an invaluable service to its disabled owner and should qualify as such under the law.

Oddly enough, I just read in the Orlando Sentinel where someone feels that if his dog is well behaved and it "makes him feel better" he should be allowed to take it where ever we wants to as long as the business owner says it is ok and the government should not be "sticking it's nose" into it.

I've posted on here before about the little Yorkie that I saw at the AK guest relations a few years ago. The owner was arguing that he was a service dog and she had every right to take him into the park. The two CMs that were talking to her were calmly telling her WDW had no problem with service animals in the parks, but that they had to be well behaved, under the owner's control at all times, and could not be lunging, barking, and nipping at guests like her little Yorkie had apparently been doing. She said that was just the terrier in him, was in their nature, and there was nothing she could do about it, but he was still a service dog and she knew her rights. What was funny is at the time, that little Yorkie was wriggling like crazy in her arms, trying to get loose, and yapping the whole time. Both she and the CMs were trying to talk over his loud barking. It was all she could do to hold onto the little thing. I didn't realize those little dogs were that strong. Talk about a hyper little dog! He looked absolutely adorable, but was definitely not trained to be out in public. She was fighting to hold onto him, the whole time she was arguing that he was a service dog and he was fighting just as hard to get loose.

 

[SueM in MN]

I've posted on here before about the little Yorkie that I saw at the AK guest relations a few years ago. The owner was arguing that he was a service dog and she had every right to take him into the park. The two CMs that were talking to her were calmly telling her WDW had no problem with service animals in the parks, but that they had to be well behaved, under the owner's control at all times, and could not be lunging, barking, and nipping at guests like her little Yorkie had apparently been doing. She said that was just the terrier in him, was in their nature, and there was nothing she could do about it, but he was still a service dog and she knew her rights. What was funny is at the time, that little Yorkie was wriggling like crazy in her arms, trying to get loose, and yapping the whole time. Both she and the CMs were trying to talk over his loud barking. It was all she could do to hold onto the little thing. I didn't realize those little dogs were that strong. Talk about a hyper little dog! He looked absolutely adorable, but was definitely not trained to be out in public. She was fighting to hold onto him, the whole time she was arguing that he was a service dog and he was fighting just as hard to get loose.

I wonder if it might have been the same one we saw at AK a few years ago.

We were crossing the bridge into Africa and saw a very strange looking pink stroller with netting across the front. Inside, there was a small white dog that was growling, barking and lunging at the net that kept it inside the stroller.
It apparently felt threatened by people who were just walking by on the other side of the bridge - no one was even close and as they passed the dog stroller, most people got as far over away from it on the bridge as it was possible to be.

That poor dog was obviously distressed. I can't imagine someone who loves their dog putting the dog thru torture like that.

And, Yorkies are not all hyper or have nothing you can do about their behavior like the woman tried to say. One of the young women who was in my DD's dance class had a Yorkie for her service dog. He would sit calmly in her lap during the entire class as she drive her power wheelchair around. He never made a sound or moved, even when the dance involved someone else's wheelchair almost touching hers.

 

[cobright]

Trust me when your child is having a seizure the very last thing you would think of is to find the video camera.

I would meet you half way on this. How about to get a 'service animal' badge for your pooch you:

1. Show a doctors note certifying that you have a disability that can be mitigated with a service dog.
2. Show that the dog has passed a very basic level obedience test administered by an obedience school (often at pet stores and such).
3. After 1 and 2 we'll trust you to self certify the dog is capable of meeting the needs of number 1.

Something like this would not be too onerous on those in need and would weed out the chaffe. Make penalties for Doctors who fraudulently prescribe this the same as those for doctors who cheat the handicap parking form.

Fair?

 

[cobright]

Side note, I had a supposed service dog attack me while eating dinner in NYC.

It was a rottweiler and it chewed through it's muzzle then pulled free of its 90 pound owner. My daughter was 14 months at the time and her legs dangling out of the backpack carrier must have seemed tasty.

The dog owner was a young woman who had been attacked a few years earlier and had taken to going out with this monstrous dog as a support animal, she says. After all these years I still feel bad for the dog.

 

[Michigan]

I would meet you half way on this. How about to get a 'service animal' badge for your pooch you:

1. Show a doctors note certifying that you have a disability that can be mitigated with a service dog.
2. Show that the dog has passed a very basic level obedience test administered by an obedience school (often at pet stores and such).
3. After 1 and 2 we'll trust you to self certify the dog is capable of meeting the needs of number 1.

Something like this would not be too onerous on those in need and would weed out the chaffe. Make penalties for Doctors who fraudulently prescribe this the same as those for doctors who cheat the handicap parking form.

Fair?

My daughter doesn't need a doctors not to certify she has a disability that's a violation of the ADA but she wouldn't need one for you to know she is disabled she has spina bifida and is paralyzed from the hips down and is a full time wheelchair user.

The service that the dog provides is to notify me during the night or as she has in the past when my daughter is in the bathroom of our motorhome behind a closed door and had a seizure.

Sophie is a friendly but lazy dog which is why she would not be a good service dog however as a seizure alert dog she is fantastic. As I stated in previous posts it is not our intention to take the dog to public places like Disney or stores, etc. because my daughter is with someone during those times. Rather to be assured that she may accompany us in hotels and campgrounds.

 

[cobright]

My daughter doesn't need a doctors not to certify she has a disability that's a violation of the ADA but she wouldn't need one for you to know she is disabled she has spina bifida and is paralyzed from the hips down and is a full time wheelchair user.

The service that the dog provides is to notify me during the night or as she has in the past when my daughter is in the bathroom of our motorhome behind a closed door and had a seizure.

Sophie is a friendly but lazy dog which is why she would not be a good service dog however as a seizure alert dog she is fantastic. As I stated in previous posts it is not our intention to take the dog to public places like Disney or stores, etc. because my daughter is with someone during those times. Rather to be assured that she may accompany us in hotels and campgrounds.

I get you. One aspect of the OP was the need to change existing federal laws so that people could not abuse the system in order to score benefits for their pets.

You commented that going through a lengthy and expensive training and registration program to certify that the dog could do what you say it does would be prohibitive.

So I asked, in the interest of weeding out the fakers that are hurting everyone who needs a service animal, would it be fair to certify your dog based on a note from your physician that your daughter has a disability that can be aided by a service dog and your attestation that your dog can provide that aid?

And would it be fair to also ask you to show that your dog can behave itself around people before giving it a pass to be taken into hotels and restaurants and such?

Yes, presently the ADA forbids asking for proof that you have a disability. That's what's being discussed here, ways to adjust that law that are fair but also achieve the goal of making less exploitable.

By comparison, the laws providing for special parking for the disabled are pretty tight and have a good track record for preventing fraud.

 

[Michigan]

I didn't comment on the cost of having a dog certified. I said I have called all of the service dog companies and they won't certify a dog that doesn't come from them.

I don't have a problem proving that the dog would be friendly in a hotel however in hotels that take dogs that's not a requirement so why would it be in others? Again, there is no need for the dog to go in a restaurant, store, amusement park. She only needs to go to hotels and campgrounds.

There will always be fakers just look at the handicap parking passes. People renew passes for those that are dead, rewrite the dates and if you count them in Disney's parking lot you will be surprised how many are expired.

 

[akcire]

I think one of the problems with having any animal certified as being well behaved and fit for public service dog status is liability. If the ABC group certifies that your poodle is well trained and then your poodle goes on to attack there is a definite liability issue for both the owner and the certifying organization.

My father has a diabetic dog that is exceedingly well trained. It allows my father the independence to live on his own. The dog was very expensive and worth every penny. When this dog needs to retire my father will have to go into a care facility.

Earlier this summer my fathers dog was attacked at a local cafe. The cafe does not allow pets, even on the outdoor section. My father is a frequent visitor and his service animal is always welcome. Unless the weather is awful my father sits outside to be less of a burden. The outside seating can only be reached from inside the cafe. He doesn't even order inside. He just walks through and sits outside. A staff member comes out and takes his order (he's a regular they have a routine).

So dads waiting outside for his order when another person with a dog appears outside, according to the staff member depositions the person is NOT a regular. When questioned inside the person misrepresented and stated their pet was a service animal. As such the dog was welcome anywhere in the cafe.

Well just about the time the waiter brought dads lunch this dog decided to attack. The waiter managed to use his tray to keep the dog off my dad. In the scuffle my dad fell down. His dog never showed any aggression but did get between the fake service dog and my father. My fathers service dog needed stitches after it was bitten. The waiter whacked the other dog with a tray until the owner regained control of the dog. Of course the dog owner blamed my fathers dog for the incident. After being forced by the police to watch the video kindly provided by the cafe staff I'm told she shut up.

All in this persons fraud resulted in an old man going to the hospital. The police being called. The real service dog going to the emergency vet with the waiter to get stitches. The video tape of the attack being copied and a lawsuit being filed. According to the discovery from the lawsuit the fake service dog had NO training, no even a pet smart obedience class. Moreover the dog had previously bitten a child. When the police found that out the owner was issued additional criminal citations for lying to the police and the dog removed. The dog owner has assets and I'm going to guess the settlement will be multiple tens of thousands of dollars, which dad plans to give to the waiter less the vet and medical bills. Oh and the worst part is my dads service dog sort of whine cries at the door now if my dad tries to eat at the cafe. It's like he has PTSD. Instead the cafe delivers to my dad but the point of his frequent visits was to allow him to get out more on his own. Dads eyes don't allow him to drive and this cafe has the best food in dads walking range.

Moral of my story is this. If you choose to call your animal a service animal and their behavior does not rise to that standard be prepared to pay financially for that decision. Not to mention answer any criminal charges.

 

[Lewisc]

My daughter doesn't need a doctors not to certify she has a disability that's a violation of the ADA

Do you think cobright's 3 points are reasonable? Understanding it might require an amendment to the ADA.

I didn't comment on the cost of having a dog certified. I said I have called all of the service dog companies and they won't certify a dog that doesn't come from them.

I don't have a problem proving that the dog would be friendly in a hotel however in hotels that take dogs that's not a requirement so why would it be in others? Again, there is no need for the dog to go in a restaurant, store, amusement park. She only needs to go to hotels and campgrounds.

There will always be fakers just look at the handicap parking passes. People renew passes for those that are dead, rewrite the dates and if you count them in Disney's parking lot you will be surprised how many are expired.

Traditionally service animals were seeing eye dogs. The dogs were professionally trained and generally given to the owner free of charge. The organization would make sure they are given to a blind person.

The current system is nothing more then the honor system. Call your pet a "service animal" and he rides in the plane for free, can stay with you in any hotel and be with you in any restaurant.

I agree a hotel which accepts pets has no reason to treat a service animal differently then a pet. The issue is with establishments which don't accept pets but are required to accept service animals.

Fakers with bogus handicap passes take a parking place which is intended for use by a handicapped person. A bogus service animal can be disruptive to other customers and can even cause bodily injury. BIG DIFFERENCE.

 

[Michigan]

Ok I'll say it again and maybe this will be the last time I have to say it.

1. My daughter has an obvious disability she was born with spina bifida. She is a 24/7 can't walk, can't stand even for 1 second full time paraplegic wheelchair user. So I don't think she needs to carry a card that says she is disabled.

2. Our dog as a puppy started alerting me at night, while I'm sleeping that my daughter is having a seizure.

3. The dog does not go with us in public because it isn't a situation where my daughter is alone.

4. Hotels and campgrounds are the only places the dog goes.

 

[JLC44]

A few things from a Service Dog handler's point of view. The ADA just went through a massive review and overhaul, this issue was one of the main things looked at and it was decided the best course of action was to not have any required paperwork, registration, etc.

Here are some of the biggest problems with putting those in place. We all agree the biggest reason to have some kind certification is to prevent people faking their pet as a service dog. Certification would not prevent this. It would stop some but not many.

Right now businesses are allowed to ask the 2 ADA questions, we have very rarely been asked if he is a service dog, and have never been asked what tasks he is trained to perform. There was just the article about the guy in New York with the "Therapy Dog" vest taking his pet everywhere, Therapy Dogs by definition are not Service Dogs and are not protected by the ADA, his vest screams "Hey I'm faking" and gets away with it. What good would certification do when businesses don't care?

This also goes for dogs that are not behaved, they can and should be asked to leave, most businesses don't.

Another big issue with certification is issuing it. There are articles out about California and New York, which both offer voluntary certification for service dogs, and how easy it is to get one. Now they have legitimized the fakers.

Another part of that is if there is certification then there will be forged certification. The harder to forge the more expensive it will be. Also then businesses will have the right to say "Nope that looks like a fake tag" and deny real service dogs without repercussion.

Do not make it harder for people with disabilities because businesses give up their rights as gatekeepers. If you want to stop fakers get businesses to do what they are allowed to do. Then pass laws like California where faking is a misdemeanor up to 6 months in jail and/or $1000 fine and then prosecute the fakers. Florida does not have a similar law by the way.

Service dog laws table by state is available at the Michigan State College of Law website "animallaw.info/articles/State%20Tables/tbusassistanceanimals.htm"

 

[SueM in MN]

I would meet you half way on this. How about to get a 'service animal' badge for your pooch you:

1. Show a doctors note certifying that you have a disability that can be mitigated with a service dog.
2. Show that the dog has passed a very basic level obedience test administered by an obedience school (often at pet stores and such).
3. After 1 and 2 we'll trust you to self certify the dog is capable of meeting the needs of number 1.

Something like this would not be too onerous on those in need and would weed out the chaffe. Make penalties for Doctors who fraudulently prescribe this the same as those for doctors who cheat the handicap parking form.

Fair?

A few things from a Service Dog handler's point of view. The ADA just went through a massive review and overhaul, this issue was one of the main things looked at and it was decided the best course of action was to not have any required paperwork, registration, etc.

Here are some of the biggest problems with putting those in place. We all agree the biggest reason to have some kind certification is to prevent people faking their pet as a service dog. Certification would not prevent this. It would stop some but not many.

Right now businesses are allowed to ask the 2 ADA questions, we have very rarely been asked if he is a service dog, and have never been asked what tasks he is trained to perform. There was just the article about the guy in New York with the "Therapy Dog" vest taking his pet everywhere, Therapy Dogs by definition are not Service Dogs and are not protected by the ADA, his vest screams "Hey I'm faking" and gets away with it. What good would certification do when businesses don't care?

This also goes for dogs that are not behaved, they can and should be asked to leave, most businesses don't.

Another big issue with certification is issuing it. There are articles out about California and New York, which both offer voluntary certification for service dogs, and how easy it is to get one. Now they have legitimized the fakers.

Another part of that is if there is certification then there will be forged certification. The harder to forge the more expensive it will be. Also then businesses will have the right to say "Nope that looks like a fake tag" and deny real service dogs without repercussion.

Do not make it harder for people with disabilities because businesses give up their rights as gatekeepers. If you want to stop fakers get businesses to do what they are allowed to do. Then pass laws like California where faking is a misdemeanor up to 6 months in jail and/or $1000 fine and then prosecute the fakers. Florida does not have a similar law by the way.

Service dog laws table by state is available at the Michigan State College of Law website "animallaw.info/articles/State%20Tables/tbusassistanceanimals.htm"

I agree totally with you.

That was what I tried to say a few pages back, but you said it more thoroughly.

There are already ways in place that businesses can use to deal with either fake or poorly trained dogs. If they don't take the action they could and should, people just can continue to get away with it.
And, I agree that if some kind of certification was required, it would not stop the fakers. It would just create a cottage industry of fake certifiers. And, as you point out, th dogs with those certificates would then be 'legitimate' because they have a certificate.

The problem is not in the ADA or the law, or the people with disabilities . The problem is with people who feel entitled to do whatever it is they want. They see accommodations needed by people with disabilities as 'perks' of being disabled instead of things some people need to function. Because they feel they can do whatever they want, this is just another thing they want to do.
So, they feel no issues with doing it.

 

[Lewisc]

Ok I'll say it again and maybe this will be the last time I have to say it.

1. My daughter has an obvious disability she was born with spina bifida. She is a 24/7 can't walk, can't stand even for 1 second full time paraplegic wheelchair user. So I don't think she needs to carry a card that says she is disabled.

2. Our dog as a puppy started alerting me at night, while I'm sleeping that my daughter is having a seizure.

3. The dog does not go with us in public because it isn't a situation where my daughter is alone.

4. Hotels and campgrounds are the only places the dog goes.

Many hotels and campgrounds accept pets.

All hotels.......have to accept service animals.

Should there be any requirements to certify service animals I doubt an exception would be made for service animals not generally in contact with the public. Your dog goes through public corridors on the way to a room.

Question is moot. It sounds like this issue was reviewed and no changes are likely.

I don't agree with some of the reasons against it. Pet owners discovered to be using a forged certificate can face penalties a lot easier then a person who has a good story about why he needs a service animal, how the owner trained it and how he made sure the training "worked".

SueM

A business who has to deal with bad behavior from a fake service animal has already had his business disrupted and may have lost customers. A "service" animal barks and goes to the potty in a restaurant. Some customers may leave and others won't be coming back. I won't even think about what happens if the dog bites another customer. Should the business have known the "service" dog was fake and not allowed the "service" animal to enter? Which is the greater liability? ADA violation for not allowing a service dog to enter or other issues if a fake "service" dog bites another customer?

I'd think many (most?) of the owners of pets (fake service dogs) would think twice about forging a certificate.