Fake service animal owners may face jail time with new law

[HarleenQ]

The disability advocates and law makers that worked on the law disagree. If you think it should be changed, contact your representatives in Washington. The law was just reauthorized, so it would be a while.

I don't think there's a reason to get so defensive about it. It's not a bad idea, and one that I've heard most service dog owners fully agree with if it would help the problem.

It's unfortunately not going to happen unless they find some way of managing training records, etc. But I'd agree that'd it'd help keep fake service dogs away.

 

[Pridemom]

I don't think there's a reason to get so defensive about it. It's not a bad idea, and one that I've heard most service dog owners fully agree with if it would help the problem.

It's unfortunately not going to happen unless they find some way of managing training records, etc. But I'd agree that'd it'd help keep fake service dogs away.

I'm not defensive, I was just explaining what went into the writing of the law. Many people have no idea what the process was. Like with any law, if you think it should be changed, the way to do that is to contact your lawmakers.

 

[piccolopat]

The disability advocates and law makers that worked on the law disagree. If you think it should be changed, contact your representatives in Washington. The law was just reauthorized, so it would be a while.

Then the disability advocates are a part of the problem. If legitimate service animals were given an official photo ID, like a drivers license, then it would be easier for everyone to know which were entitled to access and which were not. Stores and other places would then could ask for the ID and deny access to animals without credentials.

 

[piccolopat]

I'm not defensive, I was just explaining what went into the writing of the law. Many people have no idea what the process was. Like with any law, if you think it should be changed, the way to do thatontact your lawmakers.

Individuals will have little ability to get changes made to the law. Disability advocacy groups have much more leverage and a much stronger voice.

 

[KPeveler]

Then the disability advocates are a part of the problem. If legitimate service animals were given an official photo ID, like a drivers license, then it would be easier for everyone to know which were entitled to access and which were not. Stores and other places would then could ask for the ID and deny access to animals without credentials.

The problem is who is in charge of this and how to you administer it. Anyone is allowed to train their own service animal - and given the costs of trained service dogs, this is not surprising. Will there be a test, to at least make sure the dog is of safe temperament? How can a person who has a dog that alerts to oncoming seizures prove their training? Will it be a government program? Will you have to go to a private trainer or organization to get your dog certified? Who pays for that? What if there is no "tester" in your area? How far can you legally make a person travel to get their animal certified? Will it be a national database? A state database? A county one? Will the states talk to each other? Do you have to get re-certified, or is it good for the life of the animal?

There are a million reasons why the law is the way it is. If I thought there was a good way to get this done properly, I would be all for having dogs go through a basic obedience/temperament test, just to make sure the dog is safe for public. But if you make people need tests and notes from doctors, then it adds even more expense, which some may argue is against the ADA (not saying myself if it is or is not). And we all know that no government program has enough money and you will end up with lots of people falling through cracks or not being able to access services. Honestly, unless/until it can be done right, I will deal with the system we have.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

I saw the purple stroller pup!! Yep I did. I was in the parks all last week and saw just that one. Blows my mind, heat index of 106 and she had her pup in the park. That's animal abuse when not a true Service Animal. I actually looked for the Dobermans. Had I seen them, I had full intentions of approaching to mske conversation

 

[stitchlovestink]

Are they "fake" or are they Emotional Support? 2 different breeds and I do think Disney allows Emotional Support, not 100% positive.

Disney does not allow emotional support animals but it does allow Service animals in training. ADA law does not provide protection to those in training, that is left to each state to decide how to handle Service Animals in Training.

A law is only good if it's enforced. My son in law is a K9 handler and travels with us often to wdw. It's hard for him to watch the fake service dogs there. He constantly points them out because of the lack of control the owner has on them. SueM I've seen stroller dog many times, but not recently. I've also seen the guy with his 3 service dogs at MK a few times. I haven't seen the couple with the 2 large poodles lately (black one and white one). Their vest says service dog in training, yet I saw them year after year....still training.

Training takes time, a long time...that group (with the standard sized poodles) trains MANY dogs!! Disney brass has no problem with them bringing them in. I have seen them MANY Times and NEVER once have they been misbehaving in any way.

I was just in Walmart and there was a man with a small dog on a leash. The dog was climbing on the counters. Nothing was on the dog that distinguished it as a service dog except a little tag on the leash that you could not even read. He said it was a service dog! I think there should be a law that would require all service dogs and therapy dogs to have a vest on to distinguish it as a service/therapy dog and this vest should be only available from the state. Handicapped people have to pay for decals for their car. Think of all the money states can make by requiring everyone to get their vests from them and make them renewable every couple of years. Everyone is afraid to say anything anymore for fear of a law suit!

We do not pay for HC placards here where I live. If you want the actual license plate, you would pay for that, but you have to pay for plates period. HC placards are FREE here and a few other states that I know of.

 

[KPeveler]

I had to pay $11 for my first parking placard, and nothing after that. If there was a way to allow people to have their dog certified by a local person with the freedom of scheduling found at the DMV, and do it all for $11, then I would be all for it. Unfortunately, I fear that in reality, it would be far more expensive and complicated for the people with disabilities. I fear it would be massive bureaucracy, end up costing tax payers money, and would not work very well.

 

[stitchlovestink]

I had to pay $11 for my first parking placard, and nothing after that. If there was a way to allow people to have their dog certified by a local person with the freedom of scheduling found at the DMV, and do it all for $11, then I would be all for it. Unfortunately, I fear that in reality, it would be far more expensive and complicated for the people with disabilities. I fear it would be massive bureaucracy, end up costing tax payers money, and would not work very well.

I have to agree with you on this. It seems anything that is handled on a federal level is never efficient or reasonable in cost. And with it needing to be ADA compliant, it seems it would need to be done on a federal level so that all states were handled identically so as not to have any discrimination of it being "easier" in one state over another.
This law went into effect LAST July first (2015). It's been on the books in Florida for a full year now and I haven't seen/heard of any cases making the news. Seems like it was more of a scare tactic.

 

[Pease in a pod]

I'm a little late to this post but I know they are working on this, at least in Georgia. My son just received a certified service dog for a physical disability and the owner/operator at the facility (along with many other training agencies) are working directly with the powers that be to try to hammer out a way of deciding what are "official" service dogs. It gets very murky but it is an issue that many prominent people in the service dog training industry are trying to help figure out. You can actually get a vest off of etsy stating your dog is a service animal and it may have no training at all. You can also get training from Pet Smart but that only lasts a couple of weeks. My son got a dog from an agency that breeds and raises their own puppies for both physical and mental fitness. They are placed with families for at least 2 years before they are placed with a candidate and we went through a 2 week camp just to match and learn about our dog. There is also a lot of follow through from our dog agency and they have been in "business" for 30 years. The temperment of the dog is so very important along with lots of exposure to every possible situation. You can't train your dog for 2 or 3 weeks and expect the same as a dog that has been acclimated to lots of public places and people for 2-3 years. Just a thought.

 

[DisneyOma]

Are they "fake" or are they Emotional Support? 2 different breeds and I do think Disney allows Emotional Support, not 100% positive.

They are accepting dogs into some of the resorts, but I hope they don't in the parks. Or if they do they need to police them and set very strict policies. I don't want to have to worry about untrained dogs getting in my space (I have issues after being threatened by some untrained dogs).

the only 2 situations where Emotional Support Animals have any standing in law are the 2 I mentioned - Housing and Air Travel.
Those are the only situations where anyone would be required to show a prescription/paperwork.
Since there were no legal requirements to allow the ESA anywhere else/any other situations, there is no reason to show paperwork.
As was mentioned, it's easy to purchase real looking Service Dog certificates and Service Dog vests on line - basically no questions asked.

Yup, my mother's friend did this - takes her fake service dog into first class on JetBlue. I'm so tempted to call JetBlue and rat her out. This woman is not disabled. The dog is not a service dog. It might be a very poorly trained therapy dog (she drags him to see clients) but he is no service dog. She bought some fake stuff online for part of his 'training'.

They are going to great lengths to cruise with a service animal; I'd be more inclined to think it's legit than what I see at WDW and my local stores. That's not to say someone intent on taking their pet on a cruise wouldn't go through the process, but it's nowhere near as easy.

My bet is people don't want to leave their 'beloved family members' at home during the cruise, so drag the poor things with them.

Then the disability advocates are a part of the problem. If legitimate service animals were given an official photo ID, like a drivers license, then it would be easier for everyone to know which were entitled to access and which were not. Stores and other places would then could ask for the ID and deny access to animals without credentials.

I wish they would do this too. And I wish the dogs had to go through a licensing process, and renew it to show that they are still trained and disciplined. I had an interesting encounter with a service dog at CVS. While the owner was paying, I caught the dog mouthing a bag of M&M's from the candy display at the register. I took it from the dog, put it on the counter (with the bite marks showing) and asked if the owner was going to pay for the dog's treat too? I knew the man, and knew the dog was not aggressive - otherwise I wouldn't have taken the candy, just pointed it out. But I know chocolate can be lethal to dogs, and it was a sweet dog, just not trained properly.

 

[Kaytie]

Yup, my mother's friend did this - takes her fake service dog into first class on JetBlue

Just fyi, jetBlue doesn't have first class.

 

[DLgal]

Just fyi, jetBlue doesn't have first class.

They have Mint on some routes. It's basically first class.

 

[DisneyOma]

Just fyi, jetBlue doesn't have first class.

They have Mint on some routes. It's basically first class.

My mom calls it first class - they get the front row most of the time.

 

[cmwade77]

San Diego County already has laws on the books that provides jail time AND a massive fine for faking a service dog and they do indeed enforce it.

Businesses need to realize that if the dog is misbehaving and the handler does nothing to correct the problem immediately (or as soon as is safe to do so), they have the right to say the dog is no longer welcome in their establishment.

 

[cmwade77]

My mom calls it first class - they get the front row most of the time.

Yes, this is a practical matter on Jetblue, actually Jetblue generally reserves the first non-mint row for guests with disabilities in general because it allows for easier boarding and unboarding, saving valuable time.

 

[cmwade77]

I have to agree with you on this. It seems anything that is handled on a federal level is never efficient or reasonable in cost. And with it needing to be ADA compliant, it seems it would need to be done on a federal level so that all states were handled identically so as not to have any discrimination of it being "easier" in one state over another.
This law went into effect LAST July first (2015). It's been on the books in Florida for a full year now and I haven't seen/heard of any cases making the news. Seems like it was more of a scare tactic.

The reality is if any sort of ID system were put in place, it would hurt those that legitimately need service animals and there would be plenty of places that would pop up and offer fake IDs for a little bit of nothing actually making the problem worse instead of better. The better bet is to educate businesses and make sure they ask misbehaving dogs to leave.

One idea that some local people are trying to push out where I live is that service dogs would always be allowed of course with or without paper work, as long as they are behaving appropriately, but that other dogs would be allowed in restaurants, grocery stores, etc. if they passed the Good Canine Citizen test, as they then would not be doing things that would pose hygienic or safety issues and again if they are misbehaving and not being corrected they could be asked to leave. Obviously there are many logistical issues to overcome with this, but the basic concept is if all trained dogs are allowed it would dramatically reduce the fake service dogs because there is a legitimate path. Not sure if it would work or if we would just see a lot of fake paperwork like an ID system would have, but it is an idea worth exploring at least.

 

[DisneyOma]

The reality is if any sort of ID system were put in place, it would hurt those that legitimately need service animals and there would be plenty of places that would pop up and offer fake IDs for a little bit of nothing actually making the problem worse instead of better. The better bet is to educate businesses and make sure they ask misbehaving dogs to leave.

One idea that some local people are trying to push out where I live is that service dogs would always be allowed of course with or without paper work, as long as they are behaving appropriately, but that other dogs would be allowed in restaurants, grocery stores, etc. if they passed the Good Canine Citizen test, as they then would not be doing things that would pose hygienic or safety issues and again if they are misbehaving and not being corrected they could be asked to leave. Obviously there are many logistical issues to overcome with this, but the basic concept is if all trained dogs are allowed it would dramatically reduce the fake service dogs because there is a legitimate path. Not sure if it would work or if we would just see a lot of fake paperwork like an ID system would have, but it is an idea worth exploring at least.

How could they fake service dog ID if they ran it like HC parking tags? Actually, I think it would be harder to fake if they got true licensing, as there would be a state service test (and hopefully a behavior test for the dog) the dogs and owners would have to pass, and photo ID of the dog.

 

[cmwade77]

How could they fake service dog ID if they ran it like HC parking tags? Actually, I think it would be harder to fake if they got true licensing, as there would be a state service test (and hopefully a behavior test for the dog) the dogs and owners would have to pass, and photo ID of the dog.

Actually it would be very easy, look at how many fake HC Placards, even in states like California where they are made out of hard plastic. Look at how many drivers licenses (even the so called secured versions) are faked, the list goes on and on. Really such a licensing scheme would actually make the problem worse, there already is a system in place to handle misbehaving dogs, the key isn't more regulation, it is education of both the public and the businesses of their rights and responsibilities. Although there should be more laws mandating jail time for faking service animals....San Diego doesn't mess around, it can be something like 6 years an $2,000 if you fake a service animal in San Diego County with some cities making that even higher. This is a good deterrent to faking service animals.

The other issue is that this would make it financially more expensive to have a service animal, which is something that many who are disable can't afford, for many of them even an extra $20 a year would be a hardship and would end up taking money from either their own food or the dogs food (more than likely their own food, generally speaking service animals eat better than those that need them).

 

[AdamEfimoff]

Actually it would be very easy, look at how many fake HC Placards, even in states like California where they are made out of hard plastic. Look at how many drivers licenses (even the so called secured versions) are faked, the list goes on and on. Really such a licensing scheme would actually make the problem worse, there already is a system in place to handle misbehaving dogs, the key isn't more regulation, it is education of both the public and the businesses of their rights and responsibilities. Although there should be more laws mandating jail time for faking service animals....San Diego doesn't mess around, it can be something like 6 years an $2,000 if you fake a service animal in San Diego County with some cities making that even higher. This is a good deterrent to faking service animals.

The other issue is that this would make it financially more expensive to have a service animal, which is something that many who are disable can't afford, for many of them even an extra $20 a year would be a hardship and would end up taking money from either their own food or the dogs food (more than likely their own food, generally speaking service animals eat better than those that need them).

so should we give more money to the disabled?