Fahreinheit 9/11....again

[Fooboy]

Hello All!
I'm sure there has already been a post on the movie by Moore. I saw it on opening day here in Austin. I must say, I enjoyed and was interested in Bowling for Columbine, however...I was very disappointed in F 9/11! I feel that he's just way to extreme. I am not saying that Bush Administration is doing an awesome job in Iraq or even if we should be there, but Moore's perspective is just toooo LEFT! I will never object or criticize one's point of view or their opinion. But this movie is just basically a Sunday Morning political cartoon.

Also, IT SHOULD NOT HAVE WON THE CANNES FILM FESTIVAL BEST PICTURE award! It is a documentary and Tarentino (sp?) is profitting off of it! Moore has his talents, no doubt, but this time....he's gone over the line. Sure, Bush has his many character flaws, but c'mon...it doesn't have to come to this.

And to comment on the clip on the scene when Bush was reading to the children on 9/11...what was he supposed to do? Jump up and freak the children out? I'm adamant that his administration was "johnny on the spot" about the HORRIBLE incident and he needed to keep his composure. After all, he's in a room full of KIDS! I never liked Moore after his comments at the Oscars the year he won for Columbine.

Sorry for being so critical...just an opinion, after all.

foobs

 

[Van Helsing]

what was he supposed to do? Jump up and freak the children out?

Well jump make his excuses ( leave ) and take charge of the situation. Don't forget how long it took to get fighter planes into the sky.

From what i saw of bush in the classroom it looked someone who thought his plan was on course or someone who just didn't have a clue what to do - he looked so calm while his Country was being attacked.

JMHO

 

[AirForceRocks]

Originally posted by Van Helsing
Well jump make his excuses ( leave ) and take charge of the situation. Don't forget how long it took to get fighter planes into the sky.

It took 12 minutes for the first fighters to get into the air after they were notified of a hijacking, which was 14 minutes before the second tower was hit.

Yeah, it took the FOREVER to get off the ground...

 

[Galahad]

From what i saw of bush in the classroom it looked someone who thought his plan was on course ........

I really find it amazing that there are literate people that actually believe this. That causes me more concern for the world than anything any politician could do.

Well jump make his excuses ( leave ) and take charge of the situation

Start ordering planes about? What, exactly, would you expect him to do?

 

[MMouse]

Originally posted by AirForceRocks
It took 12 minutes for the first fighters to get into the air after they were notified of a hijacking, which was 14 minutes before the second tower was hit.

Yeah, it took the FOREVER to get off the ground...

This is just a clarification question:

Did the Air Force know there was a hijacking 1 minute after the first tower was hit as there were 15 minutes (8:47 - 9:02) between the 1st and second tower?

Or,

Were they notified of a hijacking and 12 minutes later they had fighters in the air? Thus, the fighters were in the air 14 minutes before tower two and 1 minute after tower 1.

 

[Van Helsing]

AirForceRocks i'm not disbelieving you - this is what i saw and heard on a news program the other night.


That was the response from NORAD

"Is this real-world or exercise?"


At NORAD, a mission commander was told an unidentified plane was 6 miles from the White House. "Okay, we're going to crank it up. Run [the jets] to the White House," he ordered.

Discovering they were 150 miles out at sea by now, he ordered them back at top speed. "I don't care how many windows you break," he said. "Damn it. Push them back."

FAA headquarters was informed at 9:34 a.m. that a fourth plane had been hijacked and was turning toward Washington.

FAA Command Center in Virginia: "Uh, do we want to think about, uh, scrambling aircraft?"

FAA HQ: "Uh, God, I don't know."

Command Center: "Uh, that's a decision somebody's gonna have to make probably in the next 10 minutes."

FAA HQ: "Ya know, everybody just left the room."



Now what was the CMC Bush doing while this was going on ?????

 

[Galahad]

Now what was the CMC Bush doing while this was going on ?????

Again. WHAT do you think he should have been doing? THIS has got to be the most bizarre complaint against the President I've heard yet.

 

[Van Helsing]

WHAT do you think he should have been doing?

What about taking charge of the situation

 

[AirForceRocks]

Were they notified of a hijacking and 12 minutes later they had fighters in the air? Thus, the fighters were in the air 14 minutes before tower two and 1 minute after tower 1.

The NORAD was notified of a hijacking at 8:30 AM, and the first fighters were in the air at 8:42. If I recall correctly, the second tower was hit at 9:06 or thereabouts.

Now what was the CMC Bush doing while this was going on ?????

I'm not sure who CMC Bush is but President Bush, having already been briefed on the known facts by Dr. Rice, was either on Air Force One or on his way to the airport during the times that you've referenced.

 

[AirForceRocks]

Originally posted by Van Helsing
What about taking charge of the situation

And during the times that you referenced, he was in charge of the situation, so what exactly is your point?

 

[Van Helsing]

I'm not sure who CMC Bush is but President Bush, having already been briefed on the known facts by Dr. Rice, was either on Air Force One or on his way to the airport during the times that you've referenced.

Good for him !!!!


So who was making all the decisions ??????

FAA Command Center in Virginia: "Uh, do we want to think about, uh, scrambling aircraft?"

FAA HQ: "Uh, God, I don't know."

Command Center: "Uh, that's a decision somebody's gonna have to make probably in the next 10 minutes."

FAA HQ: "Ya know, everybody just left the room."

 

[AirForceRocks]

Originally posted by Van Helsing
Good for him !!!!


So who was making all the decisions ??????

FAA Command Center in Virginia: "Uh, do we want to think about, uh, scrambling aircraft?"

FAA HQ: "Uh, God, I don't know."

Command Center: "Uh, that's a decision somebody's gonna have to make probably in the next 10 minutes."

FAA HQ: "Ya know, everybody just left the room."

What you seem to be missing, most likely intentionally, is that the conversation you're referencing has to do with the FAA making the decision as to whether or not to request NORAD to scramble aircraft in pursuit of Flight 77. The "somebody" that has to make a decision in the next 10 minutes would be an FAA official.

 

[faithinkarma]

Why does everyone always assume his two choices were to sit and read or to jump up excitedly causing a scene. How about " excuse me boys and girls, something has come up that requires my immediate attention" with a calm exit from the room?

Personally I believe he was in shock and I am willing to cut him some slack on this one. He made a bad choice. But who can say for certain they would have done any differently under the circumstances. What irritates me is the way people keep defending that choice instead of admitting they would have preferred he had acted otherwise. It irritates me because those same people who so vigorously defend his actions ( although they will never admit it ) would have been all over a president Gore had he done the same thing.

 

[ToriLammy]

Originally posted by faithinkarma
Why does everyone always assume his two choices were to sit and read or to jump up excitedly causing a scene. How about " excuse me boys and girls, something has come up that requires my immediate attention" with a calm exit from the room?

Personally I believe he was in shock and I am willing to cut him some slack on this one. He made a bad choice. But who can say for certain they would have done any differently under the circumstances. What irritates me is the way people keep defending that choice instead of admitting they would have preferred he had acted otherwise. It irritates me because those same people who so vigorously defend his actions ( although they will never admit it ) would have been all over a president Gore had he done the same thing.

Wow, tha's an awful lot of assumptions there. People defending his choice instead of admitting....have you got a clue what these people really are thinking. As for Gore, again you are assuming a) he'd do anything differently b) that these people would abandon their common sense c) assuming they are allowing their politics to color their vision.

 

[Eeyore1954]

Originally posted by faithinkarma
Why does everyone always assume his two choices were to sit and read or to jump up excitedly causing a scene. How about " excuse me boys and girls, something has come up that requires my immediate attention" with a calm exit from the room?

Personally I believe he was in shock and I am willing to cut him some slack on this one. He made a bad choice. But who can say for certain they would have done any differently under the circumstances. What irritates me is the way people keep defending that choice instead of admitting they would have preferred he had acted otherwise. It irritates me because those same people who so vigorously defend his actions ( although they will never admit it ) would have been all over a president Gore had he done the same thing.

I love how people Monday morning quarterback this event. It's always fun to play the "coulda, woulda, shoulda" game because hindsight is always 20/20. The reality is that none of us have walked in Pres. Bush's shoes during a similar event, so none of us knows exactly how we'd react if we were in his position. And we probably (thankfully) never will.

What I find odd is that people are fairly forgiving to one another for having differing reactions to what went on the morning of 9/11/2001. So why do some continue to bash Pres. Bush for his reaction? Is he supposed to be something more than human?

 

[AirForceRocks]

What irritates me is the way people keep defending that choice instead of admitting they would have preferred he had acted otherwise.

It could be that someone of us wouldn't have preferred that he act otherwise. If he had, fine, but I don't see that it would have made a difference either way.

It irritates me because those same people who so vigorously defend his actions ( although they will never admit it ) would have been all over a president Gore had he done the same thing.

You are free to believe whatever you like, but I can assure that had President Gore or President Clinton or any other President of any party reacted the way President Bush did, I would have had the same reaction. But that's because I don't base my opinions of the actions of a POTUS on what party affiliation he holds.

 

[snoopy]

I am far from a Bush fan, and I didn't see the movie, but I'll be darned if I can figure out why he was criticized for continuing reading the story to the children. I think he handled it admirably, given the shock he must have been in - kudos to him for not upsetting the children and getting everyone in a panic. I haven't really like what Bush has done after 9/11, but I like the way he handled himself on that horrible day.

 

[Galahad]

He made a bad choice

Do you really think he could have made a choice that would have changed the outcome? Again, I think the criticism of how he behaved in those minutes is the strangest criticism yet. This isn't the movie "Air Force One" where the president "takes charge" and saves the day. I personally don't want ANY president micro-managing a military or "semi"-military situation.

 

[dawgfan]

The FA hesitancy was more likely due to the question of whether "we shoot down this commercial airliner or not". Could you snap and make that decision quickly. Scrambling jets is just a small part of the whole scenario. They were scrambled quickly enough.

 

[faithinkarma]

AFR, I do not doubt for a second that your perosnal reaction would have been the same either way. But I don't think the majority of posters can make that same claim legitimately.

Galahad, no, nothing would have changed the outcome, That is not whhat I meant at all. But the perception of his reaction could have been better, and I am sure the president himself wishes it were so.

As to why he is criticized for sitting there...well...perhaps some feel that once it was known that America was under attack, someone ( not Bush himself ) someone should have stopped and wondered if the president was in any danger. And if he was then get him out of a school full of children.