Eyes Opened.

[DreamFlightCpt.]

This past trip my family and I traveled with my grandfather who is in his mid 80s and elected to use an ECV this trip. He's been pretty mobile up until very recently, and he still gets around with a cane mostly, but for this trip he was realistic enough to know he'd probably wouldn't keep up with anyone unless he got a chair/ECV. I'll preface this revelation by saying we've traveled with my grandmother before and we rented a wheelchair we pushed her around in, but there was a certain level on control over the situations the group was in since we could directly affect how we moved around. She also didn't want to ride many rides so we never had to deal with a lot of transfers. With my grandfather being autonomous but having to rely on his ECV for his mobility, It made me realize the challenges that someone with mobility issues and their parties can and do have getting around on Disney property(ies).

Now I'm not criticizing Disney's ADA compliance and accessibility for attractions, quite the opposite really. They do a wonderful job. The facilities we used and attractions we rode all had accommodations and CMs who were more the willing to help and did a great job doing so. When talk about difficulties I'm talking about other people. More than a few podcast episodes ago, the crew and Kevin in particular discussed the reactions of other guests to guest with disabilities and their parties jumping ahead in lines and receiving special treatment. It's sometimes less than favorable and Kevin in particular made a statement to the effect of shut up, you don't know what they're going through and it's not your place to judge if they really "need" that wheelchair or ECV and accommodations. I didn't really agree at first especially since not to long ago Disney cracked down on people taking advantage of mobility limited guests offfering services abusing Disney mobility accommodations to skip lines. I am ashamed to say that at some points I was one of those judgemental people. I'll forever reserve my judgement now after this last trip.

So I guess my issue is the way other people act around a mobility limited guests. There is a complete lack of attentiveness of guests and in particular their children when moving around people in ECVs and wheelchairs, as well as those with walkers and other molibilty aids. Multiple times did my grandfather get cut off by people not paying attention and even bumped into some people who crossed his path. Their looks of complete shock as if to question his audacity to drive an ECV around a park grew were always somewhat entertaining. He's 6' tall and 200+lbs on a bright red ECV. You can't miss him. Grandpa is also the last person to want to inconvenience anyone. Getting on rides he almost gave up a couple times because he thought he may hold everyone else up that wanted to ride. The less than discrete annoyance some people would display with him getting in and out of things made it extremely uncomfortable at times. This was particularly true with the WDW buses. We've all been there, anxious people jumping into the bus and getting upset when asked to move or get off to accommodate a guest with mobility issues. I only saw all this and got upset from a person traveling with a guest with these issues. I can only imagine how it must feel actually requiring these services.

I'm just starting to ramble so I'll end it with this: I have completely reserved judgement to parties with people who have mobility issues. It's not as easy as it may appear, getting special seating and less wait times at attractions. This was an eye opening experience and I have come away with a new respect for people who deal with these tangible and sometimes intangible difficulties every day. I just had to deal with this for 5 days, others deal with this for a lifetime in and out of vacation. I commend the inclusiveness Disney attempts to bring to its parks so that everyone and their parties can enjoy all there is to see and do together.

 

[Wishingspell]

This past trip my family and I traveled with my grandfather who is in his mid 80s and elected to use an ECV this trip. He's been pretty mobile up until very recently, and he still gets around with a cane mostly, but for this trip he was realistic enough to know he'd probably wouldn't keep up with anyone unless he got a chair/ECV. I'll preface this revelation by saying we've traveled with my grandmother before and we rented a wheelchair we pushed her around in, but there was a certain level on control over the situations the group was in since we could directly affect how we moved around. She also didn't want to ride many rides so we never had to deal with a lot of transfers. With my grandfather being autonomous but having to rely on his ECV for his mobility, It made me realize the challenges that someone with mobility issues and their parties can and do have getting around on Disney property(ies).

Now I'm not criticizing Disney's ADA compliance and accessibility for attractions, quite the opposite really. They do a wonderful job. The facilities we used and attractions we rode all had accommodations and CMs who were more the willing to help and did a great job doing so. When talk about difficulties I'm talking about other people. More than a few podcast episodes ago, the crew and Kevin in particular discussed the reactions of other guests to guest with disabilities and their parties jumping ahead in lines and receiving special treatment. It's sometimes less than favorable and Kevin in particular made a statement to the effect of shut up, you don't know what they're going through and it's not your place to judge if they really "need" that wheelchair or ECV and accommodations. I didn't really agree at first especially since not to long ago Disney cracked down on people taking advantage of mobility limited guests offfering services abusing Disney mobility accommodations to skip lines. I am ashamed to say that at some points I was one of those judgemental people. I'll forever reserve my judgement now after this last trip.

So I guess my issue is the way other people act around a mobility limited guests. There is a complete lack of attentiveness of guests and in particular their children when moving around people in ECVs and wheelchairs, as well as those with walkers and other molibilty aids. Multiple times did my grandfather get cut off by people not paying attention and even bumped into some people who crossed his path. Their looks of complete shock as if to question his audacity to drive an ECV around a park grew were always somewhat entertaining. He's 6' tall and 200+lbs on a bright red ECV. You can't miss him. Grandpa is also the last person to want to inconvenience anyone. Getting on rides he almost gave up a couple times because he thought he may hold everyone else up that wanted to ride. The less than discrete annoyance some people would display with him getting in and out of things made it extremely uncomfortable at times. This was particularly true with the WDW buses. We've all been there, anxious people jumping into the bus and getting upset when asked to move or get off to accommodate a guest with mobility issues. I only saw all this and got upset from a person traveling with a guest with these issues. I can only imagine how it must feel actually requiring these services.

I'm just starting to ramble so I'll end it with this: I have completely reserved judgement to parties with people who have mobility issues. It's not as easy as it may appear, getting special seating and less wait times at attractions. This was an eye opening experience and I have come away with a new respect for people who deal with these tangible and sometimes intangible difficulties every day. I just had to deal with this for 5 days, others deal with this for a lifetime in and out of vacation. I commend the inclusiveness Disney attempts to bring to its parks so that everyone and their parties can enjoy all there is to see and do together.

I had that very same "awakening" the very first time I went to Disneyland, we took my grandmother (my grandpa had died in the last year and it was a rough time for all of us). She used an ecv (her knees were shot) and people would cut in front of her, make comments and just general nastiness. The cms were amazing tho, and she got to ride everything she wanted (she LOVED Indiana jones we rode it so many times it's the only ride I remember clearly from that trip, but I enjoyed it too )

 

[adisneyaunt]

well it sounds like your eye opening experience also created some lasting memories.. With your family, lucky you! Hope some were Magical experiences.
Having been with someone using an ecv, I understand what you re talking about. you just can't educate everyone on Understanding what it's really like .. And many people simply Don't get it, nor even care to understand the situation. ( heaven forbid one has an Invisible disability ... You cannot Imagine the literal hostility and/or ignorance ... For lack of a better word, surrounding that. ) not pleasant!
Some just think how "lucky" to board a bus first) crazy, right?
Well... Here's to Opening More People's Eyes to the "other side" of the story. Perhaps Your post will help!
Thx for posting!

 

[gap2368]

I go with someone that uses an ECV and someone in a manual wheel chair ( so I get the cutting off thing a lot ) and how it can take you 2 to 3 times longer to get any where, But I also understand that some guest do have vision problems ( I have no depth prosecution) and I only see out of one eye at a time. I can not tell you how many times I have been walking straight and some one in an ECV is going straight but coming up on my side and I have missed them all together ( was it any ones falt ) and I am not saying this is why every guest cut you off I know some people just are not paying attiction to where they are going

I am someone that dose not looked disabled and I use the DAS pass, I have had a few people yell ( talk loudly to CM/ me ) when my micky turns blue and then the CM let me in. I think for people with disability you have to have a think skin or the comments and other things that life thought at you will really get to you

I am glade you have a great trip

 

[DisneyOma]

More than a few podcast episodes ago, the crew and Kevin in particular discussed the reactions of other guests to guest with disabilities and their parties jumping ahead in lines and receiving special treatment. It's sometimes less than favorable and Kevin in particular made a statement to the effect of shut up, you don't know what they're going through and it's not your place to judge if they really "need" that wheelchair or ECV and accommodations. I didn't really agree at first especially since not to long ago Disney cracked down on people taking advantage of mobility limited guests offfering services abusing Disney mobility accommodations to skip lines. I am ashamed to say that at some points I was one of those judgemental people. I'll forever reserve my judgement now after this last trip.

If Disney has truly gotten rid of mobility issues allowing people to skip lines, then how are they jumping ahead in lines and receiving special treatment? i don't understand what you're trying to state. It's a contradiction.

 

[SMD]

I have a friend who is permanently in a wheelchair and can only transfer by being lifted out of it and another who pushes a wheelchair in lieu of a walker and only occasionally sits in the chair and I've never heard a comment from another guest on multiple trips with them. I have, however, been hit by an ECV on multiple occasions while standing completely still. I'll say something every time that happens, and if the other person takes it as rude, that's really their problem.

If Disney has truly gotten rid of mobility issues allowing people to skip lines, then how are they jumping ahead in lines and receiving special treatment? i don't understand what you're trying to state. It's a contradiction.

There are point in the regular lines where they'll pull you out of line because of stairs or an alternate path to the boarding area. Depending on whether or not you have to wait for a certain vehicle it can actually take longer sometimes. Sometimes you get lucky and the part of the queue you skip is moving slowly that day and it's faster. And in DLR some of those rides load in a different area, and then that vehicle passes through the regular loading area. For Star Tours in DL wheelchairs have to sit in the first row, so they'll often hold you off to the side where no one in the queue can see the hallway while loading and then bring the whole party over after the rest of the rows are filled. Although on that one we've also done it where they only put the wheelchair plus 1 in the front and the rest of us were put in another row, and not the one immediately behind them.

 

[lanejudy]

@DreamFlightCpt. I'm very glad your family enjoyed the vacation and made some more wonderful memories with your grandfather. It is true, no matter how much we think we may understand another's situation, nobody can truly know that experience until we have walked in their shoes. Thank you for sharing about your trip.

 

[DreamFlightCpt.]

If Disney has truly gotten rid of mobility issues allowing people to skip lines, then how are they jumping ahead in lines and receiving special treatment? i don't understand what you're trying to state. It's a contradiction.

In that Episode, Kevin was describing how other people negatively react to people who appear to not "need" special accommodations for attractions. He was saying in his experience, since he has used and has needed to us these accommodations, their judgment should be reserved since they have no right to decide who "needs" and "does not" need special treatment along with their parties that travel with them. At the time when I had watched this podcast episode I disagreed with his statement, since around that time there were news stories of people with legitimate disabilities using these accommodations were abusing the system. Essentially, a group of guests would contact a disabled person, hire them for a day or the duration of their trip, and go around to the parks taking advantage of the special accommodations the disabled person would receive in order to have shorter wait times and better accommodations at rides, shows, etc. It was because of these occurrences at the time that I did not necessarily agree with Kevin's point of view.

Because of these abuses, Disney became more strict with their rules. Limiting the amount of guests who could use these privileges with a special needs individual, specifying exactly what kind of disabilities qualify someone to receive these accommodations, and other things. I wasn't saying that Disney completely got rid of these accommodations. They unfortunately had to change the way they do things, some people think for the worst, because of other people ruining it for everyone and perpetuating a judgmental attitude towards people using these services. But, it had to be done to make everyone happy.

I didn't realize how difficult it could actually be for someone with a disability/mobility issue to travel in the park until this trip, and that myself and all guests really should reserve their judgment on someone using the accommodations. I was saying that I used to have a somewhat hostile attitude towards people who to me did not appear to "need" these accommodations because of prior witnessed abuses of the system. It wasn't really until this trip that I became enlightened enough about people who use these services to reserve any sort of judgement I may have. Everyone is there to have a good time and if someone is abusing the system, thats on them. It is not my place to say or think any different.

 

[disneyseniors]

OP, my eyes were opened to people who use w/c's and ecv's last year. I have an invisible disease and live in extreme pain most of the time. No one can "see" it. I sometimes wish I could slap bandaids on all the body parts that hurt, but I would be covered in them. That aside, last year, I had a bout with plantar fasciitis. I limped through the parks for 5 days, then finally gave up, and my husband rented a wheelchair.
First of all, from my experience, I felt like a second class citizen. No one noticed you or acknowledged you. No one talked to me. However, I must say that the cast members were awesome. They all talked directly to me, not my husband, carried on conversations, and made the magic happen Also, I never thought of the view you get which in a w/c or ecv. I did not enjoy staring at others behinds all the time, believe me!
It was not easy for my husband to try and steer me through the crowds either. I got run over deliberately by a double wide stroller while on Main Street. It was rope drop and my husband pushed me clear over to the side of the street so we could go slowly and be out of the way of the rushing crowd. Someone came out of no where and pushed the stroller right over my footrest. I had lifted my good foot up just seconds before impact, or I would have had a broken foot plus PF. This idiot ended up breaking the footrest and wheel of my w/c. He also continued barging through the crowd and hitting people. It was too crowded for my husband to go after him, and we were frankly stunned that someone would do that on purpose. We ended up getting a new w/c. The CM at GS said that sadly this was not an unusual occurrence!
So, OP, we too got a new perspective on people with handicaps using w/c or ECV's. Those that use them wish they did not have to, believe me. It was not fun or easy. So, I know how you feel.

 

[loves to dive]

Toward the end of her life my mother had to use a wheelchair, which I always pushed. She had lupus so she looked perfectly healthy and could walk a little but it was painful and if we were going somewhere like shopping or Disney where a lot of walking was involved we just go the wheelchair. As you said, the CMs were great, sometimes the guests not so much. She didn't ride rides but she did love to shop so we would often park the wheelchair at place like the countries in WS because they were a tad tight for me to get her through and she would walk. I can't tell you how many times we would come out to find her wheelchair actually gone. Yes, people would steal the wheelchair, this was before you had to put a deposit down (thank goodness) so I'm guessing they were just lazy. On another trip I rammed my toe into the back of my sons shoe and broke it. I tried limping around on it when it first happened since this wasn't my first broken toe (I'm a tad clumsy) but while standing in line for the Backlot Tour the CM noticed me sort of holding it up, saw the swelling and blackness, pulled us out of line and sat me down while she and my son went and got a wheelchair (he had been begging me to get one). We would park it most of the time for ride lines since I could stand, just not on that foot but for shows I would stay in it. It didn't look like I needed the chair unless you looked down at the foot and I did get a few snarky comments. We just ignored them.

 

[Simba's Mom]

Just so that people don't get super-discouraged, I'll give a little balance here from my experience as a first-time ECV user. I was solo, and so scared, discouraged, mortified, to have to be on an ECV. Yet, I thought people went out of their way to be nice to me. Wherever I went, someone would hold the door open for me, sometimes waiting for me, which is nice since opening doors was one of my biggest fears. And I remember one time when I went through a very narrow queue that wound all around, I ran into a wall. A man in front of me turned around when he heard the noise, saw that I was physically fine but embarrassed, laughed and said to me "Don't worry-I didn't see a thing!" and went on his way. I'm so sorry, and I may encounter rude people this time, but not everyone is.

 

[DreamFlightCpt.]

Just so that people don't get super-discouraged, I'll give a little balance here from my experience as a first-time ECV user. I was solo, and so scared, discouraged, mortified, to have to be on an ECV. Yet, I thought people went out of their way to be nice to me. Wherever I went, someone would hold the door open for me, sometimes waiting for me, which is nice since opening doors was one of my biggest fears. And I remember one time when I went through a very narrow queue that wound all around, I ran into a wall. A man in front of me turned around when he heard the noise, saw that I was physically fine but embarrassed, laughed and said to me "Don't worry-I didn't see a thing!" and went on his way. I'm so sorry, and I may encounter rude people this time, but not everyone is.

Completely agree. Not everyone is rude or inattentive, but unfortunately those encounters tend to have a larger immediate impact that the more positive ones. Glad to hear that you had a great experience with CMs and other guests alike.

 

[mamabunny]

@DreamFlightCpt.

Thank you for your post. The divide between the able-bodied and those of use with any form of injury or disease is tissue-thin; all it takes is one accident, one rouge, treacherous cell or one moment, and you can go from being "able" to "disabled".

As someone has toured at WDW for years - first as able-bodied, then with my Mom (who required a wheelchair +me as her "pusher") and now as an ECV driver (I own two personal ECVs) I will certainly agree with you that it is an eye-opening experience. The number of people who apparently believe that the laws of physics are suspended at Disney is staggering... no matter where you are in the world, 2 objects simply cannot occupy the same space at the same time... And people who have never had to utilize an ECV or other personal mobility device don't realize that most of them don't/can't stop on a dime; that like any vehicle, there is a certain amount of "braking distance" required.

From my (seated) perspective, there are multiple factors that lead to this frustration regarding ECV and wheelchair users. The human factors tend to fall into one of several groups:
- The uninformed. They lack understanding regarding what it's like to require a personal mobility device from able-bodied guests, re: the main topic of your original post. Also, in my estimation, the largest group by far.
- the "self-entitled" guests who believe that THEIR experience at WDW is more important than anyone else's (include in this group is the subset of "I paid XXX dollars for this vacation and I'm by-God going to get what I want" folks)
- Those who engage in full-scale suspension of reality (or what we call the "reality distortion field effect" at our house) that often seems to impede their judgement and common sense while at Disney
- and last, but not least: the bedazzled; those who are first-timers (or first-time-back-in-decades) who are wandering around in a daze, soaking up the Magic, drenched in Imagineering, rendered nearly incoherent by the Disney-ess of it all.

Into this rolls those of us who must use wheels instead of bi-pedal locomotion. I literally *see* WDW through a sea of butts. Want to know why little kids in strollers are so cranky at WDW? Because it's hotter when you are down here closer to the asphalt... not to mention that you can't see anything. Trust me: I've made eye contact with about a half-million of them over the years. It ain't pretty down here.

The guests who mutter in rage, and shoot dirty looks my way when they see me board the bus back to the Resort first never consider that I'm always the *last* one off that same bus. That I can't run through the rain to shelter. That there are rides at WDW - Pirates and Frozen are two of the "biggies" - that I will never ride again because I can't get in to - or out of - of the ride vehicles. That *when* I can vacation is limited by the availability of a roll-in-shower room, not by my schedule. That is the reason I purposefully choose WDW for my vacation is because it is the easiest, most accommodating place I can go besides my own home.

I love WDW - I have since my first trip there in 1972. And I'm happy that Disney works so hard to accommodate everyone; not just me, but people with all kinds of special needs. Even if many of the guests forget it, Disney never does: Everyone deserves a Happy Place.