Extending other 2042 properties

[sschneid]

Has any one heard discussions on Disney extending other DVC properties end dates as they had done for OKW? (That is with a purchase option?)

 

[DVCconvert]

Lot of chat over the years, but the prevailing thought (at least here) is that it's unlikely as DVC didn't get the response from the okw offer they had hoped for.

HTH

 

[adminjedi]

Others have opined that perhaps DVCs focus on BCV ROFR implies some future planning of selling extended contracts.

A new twist on the discussion would be, if extensions are offered, would it only be available to Disney direct purchase or grandfathered-in contracts?
Hmmm.....

 

[DebbieB]

Others have opined that perhaps DVCs focus on BCV ROFR implies some future planning of selling extended contracts.

A new twist on the discussion would be, if extensions are offered, would it only be available to Disney direct purchase or grandfathered-in contracts?
Hmmm.....

I would think they would want as many extensions as possible, otherwise in 2042 they would be left with alot of points they have to pay maintenance on. Plus more income now.

I own at BWV and will be 82 in 2042, so I would not extend.

 

[RobDoc]

The vote by the Board to extend the ground lease for OKW was held in July, 2007 - almost 4 years ago. The meeting to vote on the OKW extension was announced shortly before the meeting was to be held.

VB opened just under 4 years after OKW (10/1995), followed by HH (3/1996) and BWV (7/1996).

If DVD has any plans to offer extensions for any of those resorts we may know something in the coming months.

I don't expect any extension to be offered for VB or HH, but if any more onsite extensions will be offered I'd think that BWV would be one of those extended.

Stay tuned!

 

[csharpwv]

We just bought at HHI, on the secondary market - and would be interested in extending the life of our contract.

While I had head that HHI was not a good step for DVC - and that it was considered to be one of the biggest missteps of DVC, the fact that we bought points at HHI because we could never get a reservation there when we wanted to stay there booking at 7 months out says something different.

Am I missing something?

It seems like it is a very popular resort, or so it seems.

 

[Disneypubgal]

We own at BW and would LOVE to extend as well!!

 

[sschneid]

So Hypothetically speaking....
If Disney were to extend their 2042 properties to say 2060 to keep in line with BLT and VGC, for example, What do you feel the asking price would be? Does anyone know what the ask was for OKW extension? Do you think it will vary by property?
It sure raises some interesting possibilities...

 

[Deb & Bill]

For OKW owners, they could extend their contracts for $15 a point for about the first 75 days the offer was made. Then it was increased to $20 a point for about 6 more months. Now it is $25 a point.

My take on it was "why on earth would I pay to extend a contract in 32 years when I might not even be alive when the contract ends". I will be 92 in 2042. Call me in 2041 and I'll tell you then.

 

[kristenrice]

We just bought at HHI, on the secondary market - and would be interested in extending the life of our contract.

While I had head that HHI was not a good step for DVC - and that it was considered to be one of the biggest missteps of DVC, the fact that we bought points at HHI because we could never get a reservation there when we wanted to stay there booking at 7 months out says something different.

Am I missing something?

It seems like it is a very popular resort, or so it seems.

I'm wondering if HHI will be a more "budget-friendly" location with the economy the way it is. We went to HHI this April and stayed 5 nights in a 1BR. We drove down from Michigan and spent a total of 3 nights in hotels on the road, round trip. At the resort, we did a dolphin tour, kayak trip, Kids Nite Out and 3 of the other paid activities. We rented 2 bikes (well, one and a tugalong) and DH and I dropped $100 on a dinner for just the two of us. So, we really didn't scrimp on anything. The total cost for the vacation for the four of us was about $1600.

Even with the cheapest possible park passes, a trip to WDW costs us at least $2500. We don't go overboard, but we don't cut corners either since we only have one vacation per year. For us, the trip to HHI was a great alternative. I'm thinking that unless the parks division starts offering better incentives for DVC'rs to hit the parks (discounts on passes besides AP's, ability to buy TIW without an AP, and/or merchandise discounts), members might be more attracted to the off-site options.

 

[RobDoc]

The extension for the OKW land contract was an additional 15 years to the 2042 end date. The vote by the Board was to offer the extension at $25 per point (for points members could not use until February 1, 2042). They offered an "incentive" allowing owners at that time to purchase the extension for $15 per point thru the end of February, 2008. OKW owners were also given a $15 credit on their 2008 dues to cover the cost/inconvenience to have the quit claim deed notarized fro those who opted to decline the "offer". As noted, the cost to purchase the extension at this time is the full $25 per point as voted.

If any other resorts are extended, I would hope (and expect) that DVC would also extend for several years beyond 50 from the original opening date. Considering the first 6 DVC resorts (OKW, VB, HH. BWV, VWL and BCV) all had the same 1/31/2042 expiration date even though OKW was the only resort with a full 50 years - all of the other original resorts should be exteded so that owners would have 65 years from their opening date - similar to OKW.

BCV opened in 2002 but would expire after less than 40 years, so I would expect that any extension would carry BCV owners at least several years beyond 2042. If a BCV extension were to be offered in 2012, I'd hope it would extend the expiration an additional 15 years (or 25 beyond the original date).

SSR was the first DVC resort after OKW to have 50 year contracts, opening in 2004 with a 2054 expiration, and all resorts since have had 50 years from their opening year (although even SSR did not get a full 50 years opening in May, 2004 and expiring January, 2054.

Stay Tuned!

 

[tjkraz]

Others have opined that perhaps DVCs focus on BCV ROFR implies some future planning of selling extended contracts.

The only reason DVC still ROFRs at Beach Club because there is still add-on demand at about $115 per point. Nothing else worth reading into it.

A new twist on the discussion would be, if extensions are offered, would it only be available to Disney direct purchase or grandfathered-in contracts?
Hmmm.....

Like Debbie said, DVC certainly wouldn't put up any roadblocks to extending. Just to throw some numbers out, if DVC can only convince 25% of owners to extend, come 2042 they will be left holding the bag on thousands of 15-year contracts.

While I had head that HHI was not a good step for DVC - and that it was considered to be one of the biggest missteps of DVC, the fact that we bought points at HHI because we could never get a reservation there when we wanted to stay there booking at 7 months out says something different.

Am I missing something?

My sense is that HHI is very popular...but only for about 8-9 months out of the year. When the weather gets cold (roughly November - February, less some holiday periods) there isn't much interest. The reason it's hard to book at 7 months is you have 12 months' worth of owners trying to squeeze into those 8-9 popular months. That doesn't leave much for the non-owners to book at 7 months.

The high number of two bedroom villas probably doesn't help, either.

 

[dvc at last !]

subbing...

 

[Dean]

I would think they would want as many extensions as possible, otherwise in 2042 they would be left with alot of points they have to pay maintenance on. Plus more income now.

I own at BWV and will be 82 in 2042, so I would not extend.

If the RTU expires, there are no points and no fees to be paid. Of course they must decide what to do with the properties themselves. I'm sure they'd love to extend them but they need a majority of owners to do so to make it worthwhile financially. Their problem is how to extend and get something for doing so, esp given that the extension for OKW was somewhat of a failure. IMO, they got greedy and assumed that members would pony up simply because it's Disney. They priced it too high. Now they've backed themselves into a corner. If they offer an extension that's similar to OKW, they can expect more of the same with some variation by resort. If they price it much lower, they will have a problem with OKW owners unless they refund a portion or offer other benefits.

With the newer properties expiring later, it's really in their best interest to extend them all, OKW was likely the least beneficial to do. My guess is they'll bat it around for a number of years and offer an extension MUCH later, maybe a few years before the current expiration date. Or they'll offer an extension combined with a min retail purchase at an existing resort, which is likely their best option anyway.

 

[Dean]

My sense is that HHI is very popular...but only for about 8-9 months out of the year. When the weather gets cold (roughly November - February, less some holiday periods) there isn't much interest. The reason it's hard to book at 7 months is you have 12 months' worth of owners trying to squeeze into those 8-9 popular months. That doesn't leave much for the non-owners to book at 7 months.

HH is really only VERY popular around 3-4 months of the year. It's moderately popular another 3 months or so. About 3 months of the year you can hardly give it away. A large number of rooms go unused for a good 4 months or so and/or can be picked up for a song on RCI (II before). HH & VB points are most often the ones looking at 7 months out, a much higher % than even SSR but not as many total points and it's likely even high for HH points than VB.

 

[DebbieB]

If the RTU expires, there are no points and no fees to be paid. Of course they must decide what to do with the properties themselves. I'm sure they'd love to extend them but they need a majority of owners to do so to make it worthwhile financially. Their problem is how to extend and get something for doing so, esp given that the extension for OKW was somewhat of a failure. IMO, they got greedy and assumed that members would pony up simply because it's Disney. They priced it too high. Now they've backed themselves into a corner. If they offer an extension that's similar to OKW, they can expect more of the same with some variation by resort. If they price it much lower, they will have a problem with OKW owners unless they refund a portion or offer other benefits.

With the newer properties expiring later, it's really in their best interest to extend them all, OKW was likely the least beneficial to do. My guess is they'll bat it around for a number of years and offer an extension MUCH later, maybe a few years before the current expiration date. Or they'll offer an extension combined with a min retail purchase at an existing resort, which is likely their best option anyway.

If only 25% of the points are extended, what would happen to the remaining 75% of the property? I assumed that if an exension was offered, the lease would be extended for the entire property and DVC would have to deal with the percent of points not extended. That's why I said that DVC would not want to limit who extensions are offered to.

 

[Dean]

If only 25% of the points are extended, what would happen to the remaining 75% of the property? I assumed that if an exension was offered, the lease would be extended for the entire property and DVC would have to deal with the percent not extended. That's why I said that DVC would not want to limit who extensions are offered to.

I read your post as they would have the MF to deal with if not extended, sorry I misread. Given your F/U post, i think we're saying the same thing, that they need enough participation to justify extending the resort. As to what would happen if only a % of people extended, it would depend on the choices DVD makes, the % and the actual property. Lets take OKW and assume it had not been extended yet because it's the purest and easiest to think about. Had they simply extended, they would be committing each building that were extended to cont until 2057. They could have extended but given ownership in a reduced number of buildings and thus could have closed off part of the resort. Given the unit assignment options they still MIGHT be able to do this but I don't think they could bulldoze them with the current extension, in my example, they could have. For SSR, HH & VB, they would have the same options on a larger scale. It gets more tricky with places like BWV, BCV, AKV, etc where the buildings are more together. OF course they could still close or even demolish parts, just like they phased in at AKV.

I feel they need around 75-80% participation to make the extension worthwhile. No way they'll get this amount by trying to make money on the extension itself. IMO, they would have been better off simply having a vote to extend and making their money on the back end by ROFR and for the extra years of a higher management contract. If they wanted to extend to cover their fees, they should have come in around $5 a point, $8 max. Plus, as I've posted before, the POS does not give them the authority to do a SA for this purpose. If anyone challenges that issue, I believe they'll lose though I doubt they'd let it get to a final decision (arbitration or courts) and would buy the challenger off.

 

[Garthilk]

Going to be interesting when the 2042 date passes and there are much less DVC members. What are the dues going to do to the existing members? Are they going to go through the roof so to speak?

 

[quentina]

HH is really only VERY popular around 3-4 months of the year. It's moderately popular another 3 months or so. About 3 months of the year you can hardly give it away. A large number of rooms go unused for a good 4 months or so and/or can be picked up for a song on RCI (II before). HH & VB points are most often the ones looking at 7 months out, a much higher % than even SSR but not as many total points and it's likely even high for HH points than VB.

We are HHI owners and always go in July. This year, we went May 13-20th. Anyway, I asked about the status and was told it was sold out. I was shocked because there were such less amount of kids there. I then spoke to another CM who told me that the slower months are usually close to sold out however; the have a lower person occupancy (rooms with less people in them). She said after Memorial Day is when the larger families start coming in boosting the attendance.

 

[Dean]

We are HHI owners and always go in July. This year, we went May 13-20th. Anyway, I asked about the status and was told it was sold out. I was shocked because there were such less amount of kids there. I then spoke to another CM who told me that the slower months are usually close to sold out however; the have a lower person occupancy (rooms with less people in them). She said after Memorial Day is when the larger families start coming in boosting the attendance.

Full doesn't equal high demand. Those rooms are often filled with cash discounted rooms including through RCI and exchangers. Actually, even sold out doesn't mean full because DVD may have reserved rooms for cash that were never rented or deposited for exchange that were never claimed. If you'll look at the rental prices through the management companies and the calendar dates associated, you'll get a better feel for demand on the island.