Exploiting the Market - PIT Rentals

[disneylandtour]

The occasional rental by members is understandable. But that always brings up the larger issue & will continue unless DVC addresses it (& yes, I was a member back when DVC invited up to become a "Member of the Disney Family.) Yes. Times change. But I do think that those with sufficient pts, many points or more flexible schedules are less impacted. When the Ticket*astard & bots model is permitted, it seems DVC is ignoring entirely their prohibition on commercial renters.
Hope it's ok to share this as a possible example:
https://www.disboards.com/threads/p...500-wl-br-19-75pp-160-aulani-19-75pp.3954882/

That's an individual who is renting OVER 8k points a year. That's a business, which is a commercial endeavor, which should be prohibited under DVC's own rules. That's wildly different than my kid broke his arm and now we need to rent out our reservation. OR: my job changed and I can't take a long vacation this year, which leaves me with extra points.

 

[Disfamwa]

In what case would this ever be true? Just bank the 2024 points to 2025. Or rent a reservation out later, not Day 1. Buy the points in January 2025, and you'll still get 2024 points.

It's just scummy behavior. The intention is known.

In California, you can choose to book handicapped rooms at Grand Californian or the Disneyland Tower at the 7-month or 11-month mark if the regular rooms are already booked. (California treats those rooms as different, Florida doesn't) Most people don't this as they think it's scummy behavior if they're not handicapped.

The handicapped rooms are regularly rented out as confirmed reservations in a Facebook group geared toward west coast properties.

 

[Mai Ku Tiki]

That's an individual who is renting OVER 8k points a year. That's a business, which is a commercial endeavor, which should be prohibited under DVC's own rules. That's wildly different than my kid broke his arm and now we need to rent out our reservation. OR: my job changed and I can't take a long vacation this year, which leaves me with extra points.

That's my point. And her "ad" indicates she does it annually.
I'm guessing "she" represents a group; LLC?

 

[disneylandtour]

The occasional rental by members is understandable. But that always brings up the larger issue & will continue unless DVC addresses it (& yes, I was a member back when DVC invited up to become a "Member of the Disney Family.) Yes. Times change. But I do think that those with sufficient pts, many points or more flexible schedules are less impacted. When the Ticket*astard & bots model is permitted, it seems DVC is ignoring entirely their prohibition on commercial renters.
Hope it's ok to share this as a possible example:
https://www.disboards.com/threads/p...500-wl-br-19-75pp-160-aulani-19-75pp.3954882/

As a side note, here are the DIS's rules about posting confirmed rentals:

"Allows a maximum of 3 rental threads for the plan year and may include ONE existing reservation offered within 30 days of the arrival date."

But a quick glance at that sub-forum shows a bunch of confirmed Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Year's rentals that are not even close to "30 days of the arrival date."

So maybe we could start to align things more with the stated rules here, too. A small step, sure, but it might help.

 

[JackosinDIS]

As a side note, here are the DIS's rules about posting confirmed rentals:

"Allows a maximum of 3 rental threads for the plan year and may include ONE existing reservation offered within 30 days of the arrival date."

But a quick glance at that sub-forum shows a bunch of confirmed Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Year's rentals that are not even close to "30 days of the arrival date."

So maybe we could start to align things more with the stated rules here, too. A small step, sure, but it might help.

I think that’s only for the free membership. Different rules if you pay the annual fee.

 

[disneylandtour]

I think that’s only for the free membership. Different rules if you pay the annual fee.

Silver membership allows one rental within 30 days. Gold membership allows two rentals within 30 days of arrival. The two highest levels do have different rules.

 

[marmentrout85]

Exactly.

If someone was an existing DVC member and bought a new Poly contract on October 1, and then used all their points on October 15 for a new Poly Tower reservation.... and then immediately put it on sale.... those people should have their contracts revoked.

They'll give excuses like, 'We don't need the points the first year.... so we needed to sell' ... well don't buy the points until next year!

I sort of feel this way too, while simultaneously realizing that "We wanted to buy it this year and lock in the price before it goes up down the road" would be a perfectly reasonable response to that.

 

[Sandisw]

Silver membership allows one rental within 30 days. Gold membership allows two rentals within 30 days of arrival. The two highest levels do have different rules.

The two mods who monitor and approve the Rent/Transfer forum, @CarolMN and @Chuck S spend a lot of time reviewing before approving threads against the rules to ensure it is followed as the can’t post until it goes through that approval process.

 

[Mai Ku Tiki]

The two mods who monitor and approve the Rent/Transfer forum, @CarolMN and @Chuck S spend a lot of time reviewing before approving threads against the rules to ensure it is followed as the can’t post until it goes through that approval process.

Big eye-opener for me bc I don't often visit the Rent/Transfer.
I'm sure both moderators do closely monitor for abuses of DISboard rules.
But speaking only for myself, I'm sad to see these boards participate in a growing concern for many DVC owners as availability continues to become more challenging.

 

[Chuck S]

To post ONE Exisitng Reservation outside the 30 day window you need the $124.95 Platinum level plan. It also allows a second existing reservation to be posted at 30 days or less from check-in date. The remaining 4 threads of that plan must be Points for Rent or Points for transfer threads. With the $249.95 Premium Plan, you may offer 3 existing reservations outside the 30 day check-in window. The remaining 5 threads (Premium allows 8 threads per year) must be Points for Rent or Points for Transfer threads.

When threads are submitted to the Rental Board, they go into a holding queue, where Carol or I review each one, log it with the date and what type of thread it is, and the type of plan the person purchased, along with the expiration date of that plan. ALso note that we do NOT allow a reservation starting on a Friday, Saturday or Sunday to be exactly 7 nights. This is to prevent a chance that a non-owner is trying to rent an exchange reservation, as that is not permitted by the exchange companies. It also blocked those with dedicated week contracts from renting their entire prebooked reservation week.

If you open the threads offering the existing reservations longer out than 30 days, you should see that the poster has a Platinum or Premium tag under their posters name. Plans are active for one year, meaning if you have a Platinum tag, you may post only ONE existing reservation outside the 30 days window during the active year of that plan. The Premium Plan would allow a maximum of three of them during that year. Hardly what could be considered a definition Commercial Renting.

If you qualify for free use of the Rental Board by meeting the posting prerequisite over the previous 6 months, it is basically the same as a free SILVER plan. You could post ONE existing reservation within the 30 day check-in window and two Points for Rent threads during that year.

Here is a link to the official DISBoard Rent/Transfer Board rules: REQUIRED READING THREAD it is a fairly lengthy thread to read through. Violating those rules can and will get you permanently banned from using the Rent/Transfer Board.

 

[CarolMN]

FWIW, we decline way more rental threads than we approve. I'm quite sure it's because most of those who get declined do not bother to read the rules before posting.

This discussion (which sometimes turns into an argument that gets the thread closed) reoccurs quite often. I do not think there will ever be anything close to a consensus regarding this topic. I've read all the posts so far, and there is no new information or opinions that haven't been mentioned in the past. That said, there are some new posters expressing their thoughts. All are welcome.

 

[Noodlez]

My original intent for the thread was focused on the exorbitant price some were charging which was a clear premium over normal rental price per point.

Given that the board sponsor is currently advertising confirmed reservations at SSR and OKW for $28 a point (and I've seen reservations on there higher than that), I'm really not sure that $30 is exorbitant any more. If I had spare points I would certainly be tempted, given the current demand.

I don't think people are snapping up impossible to get rooms at PIT. On the day booking opened I was one of the ones trying (for myself) but from the threads I was reading on here there really wasn't much issue trying to get a room, other than the hold time. I am frustrated by the possibility of companies finding a way around the commercial renting rules, but I have absolutely no objection to owners renting their points in whatever way they choose, as long as it is not a high number of rentals. If they want to charge far more than I would then it only makes it easier for me a lower cost.

Confirmed reservation are a lot more popular on social media, and I've read that the board sponsor actually prefers people to make confirmed reservation too. Given that we can't actually rent 'points' we can only rent reservations it's just removing one step of the process.

 

[CastAStone]

I've read that the board sponsor actually prefers people to make confirmed reservation too

They take a higher margin on confirmed rentals. So I’m sure they do prefer them.

Meanwhile David’s clearly prefers renting points (and takes the same or higher margin on point rentals vs confirmed).

Just different business models.

 

[Jperiod]

Given that the board sponsor is currently advertising confirmed reservations at SSR and OKW for $28 a point (and I've seen reservations on there higher than that), I'm really not sure that $30 is exorbitant any more. If I had spare points I would certainly be tempted, given the current demand.

I don't think people are snapping up impossible to get rooms at PIT. On the day booking opened I was one of the ones trying (for myself) but from the threads I was reading on here there really wasn't much issue trying to get a room, other than the hold time. I am frustrated by the possibility of companies finding a way around the commercial renting rules, but I have absolutely no objection to owners renting their points in whatever way they choose, as long as it is not a high number of rentals. If they want to charge far more than I would then it only makes it easier for me a lower cost.

Confirmed reservation are a lot more popular on social media, and I've read that the board sponsor actually prefers people to make confirmed reservation too. Given that we can't actually rent 'points' we can only rent reservations it's just removing one step of the process.

When I've had to rent out my points, it was much easier to find a renter for a confirmed reservation than just points. Average people just don't plan far enough in advance so it makes more sense to pick popular dates and hope for the best. We've had to cut down our trips tremendously because of finances and the increasing vacation costs. I can't sell off part of my contract and I can't continue to bank indefinitely so I rented them out this year. I own VGC where rooms go for $900 a night and I rented them all at over $30 a point, which was still a discount in comparison. Sure, one can get SSR or AKV for much cheaper, but to stay at VGC, I paid a premium for the privilege to book there 11 months out.

 

[Chuck S]

When I've had to rent out my points, it was much easier to find a renter for a confirmed reservation than just points.

It is interesting that you found an existing reservation easier to rent than just renting points. A little mre than a year ago, I had about 100 extra points, and I rented them as points, not an existoiing reservation, and had no issues at all. Of course some of the dates were not available, but it still worked out fine. I was able to rent all but 1 point, and I was still in the banking window...so no issue there. And I didn't have to call Member Services to change the lead name on the room, since I had all of the guests info before I made the reservation.

Everyone has their preferences, I guess.

 

[Jperiod]

It is interesting that you found an existing reservation easier to rent than just renting points. A little mre than a year ago, I had about 100 extra points, and I rented them as points, not an existoiing reservation, and had no issues at all. Of course some of the dates were not available, but it still worked out fine. I was able to rent all but 1 point, and I was still in the banking window...so no issue there. And I didn't have to call Member Services to change the lead name on the room, since I had all of the guests info before I made the reservation.

Everyone has their preferences, I guess.

probably because the VGC studios book so fast, even before 7 months? I think most of the times I ended up renting just points, the reservations went to other resorts (and thus, average rental rates).

My favorite was transferring my points in whole. I wish we could do that more easily/often. I have one orphaned banked point this year. I guess that's by disney's design.

 

[Mai Ku Tiki]

FWIW, we decline way more rental threads than we approve. I'm quite sure it's because most of those who get declined do not bother to read the rules before posting.

This discussion (which sometimes turns into an argument that gets the thread closed) reoccurs quite often. I do not think there will ever be anything close to a consensus regarding this topic. I've read all the posts so far, and there is no new information or opinions that haven't been mentioned in the past. That said, there are some new posters expressing their thoughts. All are welcome.

Thank you. I've now read thru RENT/TRANSFER rules that I wasn't aware of.
I've been here since 1999 (older messages wiped out in the Great Crash back in the day).
The post I noted above offers 8000 pts, says they are offered annually & has a GOLD Membership.
I remain disappointed that DISboards allows rentals that are clearly commercial & seem contrary to DVC rules.
To make up for the funds "Memberships" pay on RENT/TRANSFER, I'd be more than happy to pay a nominal annual fee to support this site, especially the Forums.
As always...Wishing everyone a Magical Day

 

[Chuck S]

Thank you. I've now read thru RENT/TRANSFER rules that I wasn't aware of.
I've been here since 1999 (older messages wiped out in the Great Crash back in the day).
The post I noted above offers 8000 pts, says they are offered annually & has a GOLD Membership.
I remain disappointed that DISboards allows rentals that are clearly commercial & seem contrary to DVC rules.
To make up for the funds "Memberships" pay on RENT/TRANSFER, I'd be more than happy to pay a nominal annual fee to support this site, especially the Forums.
As always...Wishing everyone a Magical Day
View attachment 905082

I'm sorry you are disappointed in the DIS Rent/Transfer Policies...However, they apparently do NOT violate any DVC rules, because if they did, you can be sure DVC would contact the Webmasters and ask for such posts to be removed. But they'd also need to contact each and every other website that allows rental. The ball really is in DVCs court as to what they consider Commercial Renting, they can see how many points a member has and controls, and how many rentals a member makes. Also remember, while someone may control several thousand points, DVC seems to apply the rules per membership. Large points owners generally spread their points between several contracts/memberships. For instance, I could own my own sole membership, and I could have another membership with a cousin, and another with a froend, and so on. And EACH of those memberships would need to be reviewed by DVC to see in any of them are actually violated their guidlines for commercial use. If DVC deems them to be within the guuidelined, it is not the responsibility of this, or any other website to be the primary enforcement arm for DVCs rules. It is up to DVC. And we do have several policies on the DIS to discourage the mass renting of Existing Reservations more than 30 days out.

But if a member is renting points by making reservations AT THE REQUEST of a potential renter, and is not offering prebooked reservations, it really should also not have a major affect on availability for other DVC Members looking to book their own reservations. They are They have the same change of getting, or not getting , a reservation the same as any other member. It isn't like they are prebooking all the popular travel dates in the hope that someone may rent them later.


There are no restrictions in the POS against an owner using a broker or website to rent out their points. There ARE restictions, at DVCs discretion, upon renting "commercially" and it is entirely up to DVC to define what they consider that to be. If they say no more than 20 rentals per membership, The DISBoards and no other website (except perhaps an actual broker site that handle the actual transaction between guest and owner) has any way to determine if a single membership violates that policy.

Surely you rather see owners renting out points and making reservations at the request of prospective renters over reserving an "in demand" reservations for the sole purpose of renting?

If we were to change the policy, what amount of points do you think we should allow per thread?

 

[Chuck S]

probably because the VGC studios book so fast, even before 7 months? I think most of the times I ended up renting just points, the reservations went to other resorts (and thus, average rental rates).

My favorite was transferring my points in whole. I wish we could do that more easily/often. I have one orphaned banked point this year. I guess that's by disney's design.

Ahhh....yes, for Caliifornia that is understandable.

 

[disneylandtour]

I'm sorry you are disappointed in the DIS Rent/Transfer Policies...However, they apparently do NOT violate any DVC rules, because if they did, you can be sure DVC would contact the Webmasters and ask for such posts to be removed. But they'd also need to contact each and every other website that allows rental. The ball really is in DVCs court as to what they consider Commercial Renting, they can see how many points a member has and controls, and how many rentals a member makes. Also remember, while someone may control several thousand points, DVC seems to apply the rules per membership. Large points owners generally spread their points between several contracts/memberships. For instance, I could own my own sole membership, and I could have another membership with a cousin, and another with a froend, and so on. And EACH of those memberships would need to be reviewed by DVC to see in any of them are actually violated their guidlines for commercial use. If DVC deems them to be within the guuidelined, it is not the responsibility of this, or any other website to be the primary enforcement arm for DVCs rules. It is up to DVC. And we do have several policies on the DIS to discourage the mass renting of Existing Reservations more than 30 days out.

But if a member is renting points by making reservations AT THE REQUEST of a potential renter, and is not offering prebooked reservations, it really should also not have a major affect on availability for other DVC Members looking to book their own reservations. They are They have the same change of getting, or not getting , a reservation the same as any other member. It isn't like they are prebooking all the popular travel dates in the hope that someone may rent them later.


There are no restrictions in the POS against an owner using a broker or website to rent out their points. There ARE restictions, at DVCs discretion, upon renting "commercially" and it is entirely up to DVC to define what they consider that to be. If they say no more than 20 rentals per membership, The DISBoards and no other website (except perhaps an actual broker site that handle the actual transaction between guest and owner) has any way to determine if a single membership violates that policy.

Surely you rather see owners renting out points and making reservations at the request of prospective renters over reserving an "in demand" reservations for the sole purpose of renting?

If we were to change the policy, what amount of points do you think we should allow per thread?

8k Points is clearly a commercial rental. I would think that the boards here would mostly be arranged for non-commercial activity. I can easily see situations where non-commercial owners need to rent out points. All is good there. Unless you want to make DIS into a commercial rental site with a fee to do that (presently, that appears to be one use of the platinum membership), I would cap it around 1k points per year. Something like..."All members, regardless of tier, can rent or transfer up to 1k points (or the equivalent in confirmed rentals) each year." And I'd also suggest that mods don't need to add up each member individually. But there will be immediately obvious differences between someone selling a few hundred points because of a family issue and someone posting 8k of points to rent as a full-bore commercial activity. I think that latter situation is one that various board might want to avoid, because it creates clear commercial rental situations--it also creates a situation whereby a member can pay a fee to use DIS for their own commercial purposes. Someone with 8K points needs to set up their own website and manage all aspects of the transactions, from listing to follow-through.