Every Wish That We Put Into Motion.... (comments welcome!)

[Herding_Cats]

OK. So I'm currently trying really hard to avoid going out for my 9mi run, so I'll catch up on the weekend, and then probably force myself to put my running gear on and get out the door. Ugh. This is what missing multiple runs always does to me.....all of the motivation goes out the window.

XC "group" camping trip to Marquette for a meet that the host school said would absolutely be on FRIDAY and then moved to THURSDAY 6 days before we were supposed to leave. Handy. Most everyone still went, and the kids did some group runs, but we ended up sticking mostly to our own campsite for the 3 days.

On Friday the kids ran as a team, and then we went on a hike as a family to Dead River Falls, checked out the Black Rocks park (this area is very popular for people to jump into Lake Superior off of the rock cliffs that stick out in the the water. One spot in particular is deep enough for it to be done safely, the drop is probably 15ft, and the way the rock formation sticks out means that there's no current/undertow and it's a short swim to climb back up or go to shore. We didn't want to walk allllll the way back to the car to get suits and towels so we just people-watched and waded in the water. I ended up putting DD in her carrier during the 2nd half of the hike and WOW were my quads not thrilled with me for 2 days after.

DS1 got whatever bug is going around (not covid) a week ago that made him really tired for 2 days and then a drippy nose. Yeah. Sounds just like covid, but it wasn't. Go figure! He and DS2 share a room. Guess who got it on Friday night? Yes!! OF COURSE it was the kid I had just signed up for a 5k on Wednesday night. And DD ended up with a stomach bug and a fever that same night, so after getting pretty much NO sleep, the 6am alarm went off to get ready to take DS2 to the race and he decided that he felt too awful to go race. So instead of taking DS to his race Saturday morning (where he would have gotten 1st or 2nd in his age group....his friend that he usually runs with won their age group and got 8th overall) and then doing a few more hikes, I stayed at the campsite with all of the sickies. Just what I wanted to do on what was probably my last vacation for 2022.

I took all of my running stuff, but ended up only going on the one hike and the walks around the campground trying to get DD to sleep/nap each day.


Costuming: I got my crowned top and WOW do I like it. I can't believe I'm planning on running a race in what is essentially a crop top and a tutu, but here we are! Also ordered a skirt from enchantedathleticsco that I'm hoping will get here before my HM.

Shoes: scored a(nother) pair of black/white 1080s off amazon warehouse for $56.

 

[Herding_Cats]

I'm starting to look ahead to later in the month @DopeyBadger and I'm wondering about a plan for Dopey.

Plan from last year (Goofy) was #559 and worked well IMO.
-I'm thinking 5 days a week again.
-Starting around 9/25 or 9/26? (one week after my HM)
-Probably Saturdays off through November 5th to accommodate the XC season as nearly all of the meets are on Tuesdays and Saturdays. (Basketball season starts in mid-November and I don't know what that schedule will look like yet.)
-I've pretty much embraced the intervals unless I'm doing a run on the treadmill because I hate pushing the buttons for changing speeds constantly.
-I feel like my ankle doesn't like a lot of speed work at this point, and my goal is only to finish (with lots of picture and bathroom stops) and still be a functional person the next day. Last year I pretty much moved as little as possible after the full, but was able to put DD in her carrier and haul her and our luggage around MCO the next morning.

 

[HangWithMerida]

The area you were camping in sounds really nice. Sorry the trip was interrupted by sick kids. Mine also got a stomach bug this weekend. On their birthday, no less. I hate stomach bugs. It makes me anxious to be in the same house so I’m glad mine is now old enough that they don’t require as much hands-on assistance. Luckily, my husband and I managed to dodge it.

 

[Herding_Cats]

9 miles done and it wasn’t great from a “feel” perspective. I’ve done almost all of my runs this summer with an unadjusted pace in relation to the temperatures, unless it was like…really hot out or right after work, and felt fine. Today was not that day. We are at the end of a 3 day “cold” spell so it was only 75 during my run, and the dew point is like 53. Nothing terrible. But I looked at my pace, and then the adjustment today and said, “Yeah. We’re adjusting.” Mile 1 felt awful. I just wanted to turn around and go home, my HR was high, my calf was tight. I could have just come back home at mile 3 but figured I’d give it one more mile to see if it got less sucky, and it did.

Don’t get me wrong. I did not enjoy myself at all, but it wasn’t *as* terrible. My calf clenched hard enough that I stopped for 3min to stretch it. My quad tried to convince me that it was going to lock up (it didn’t, and the irritation went away within 15min) and it was generally yuck.

But I hit my overall adjust pace goal. And I did the miles. And that’s what matters today.

 

[DopeyBadger]

I'm starting to look ahead to later in the month @DopeyBadger and I'm wondering about a plan for Dopey.

Plan from last year (Goofy) was #559 and worked well IMO.
-I'm thinking 5 days a week again.
-Starting around 9/25 or 9/26? (one week after my HM)
-Probably Saturdays off through November 5th to accommodate the XC season as nearly all of the meets are on Tuesdays and Saturdays. (Basketball season starts in mid-November and I don't know what that schedule will look like yet.)
-I've pretty much embraced the intervals unless I'm doing a run on the treadmill because I hate pushing the buttons for changing speeds constantly.
-I feel like my ankle doesn't like a lot of speed work at this point, and my goal is only to finish (with lots of picture and bathroom stops) and still be a functional person the next day. Last year I pretty much moved as little as possible after the full, but was able to put DD in her carrier and haul her and our luggage around MCO the next morning.

-So maybe a schedule of M, W, R, F, Su? What would be the best day for your longest run, and how much time on the other days can you consistently commit to?
-What are some recent race times to assess current fitness? I feel like you did a mile tt recently that confirmed you're close to last check-in (memory is a bit fuzzy)?
-Define speed work to you? Is there a certain pace threshold you'd like everything to be slower than (5k, 10k, LT, HM, M)?
-Other than XC, are there any known conflicts coming up between now and Dopey?

 

[lookingforsunshine]

Costuming: I got my crowned top and WOW do I like it.

Which one did you get? My Sally one should arrive tmrw!

 

[Herding_Cats]

Which one did you get? My Sally one should arrive tmrw!

I got the white-based epcot sports bra. The current plan is to pair it with my lavender dottie skirt (and orange shoes....I'm still debating getting the headband from etsy with the small figment horns.

 

[Herding_Cats]

-So maybe a schedule of M, W, R, F, Su? What would be the best day for your longest run, and how much time on the other days can you consistently commit to?

That seems reasonable. And I should know (generally) a week or 2 in advance if I need to juggle weekdays around. Sundays for long runs will work best. I can say that I can for sure do an hour on the other days, and probably 80min. And if a run needs to be longer than that here and there I can run it in the evening when other people are home to keep an eye on DD.

-What are some recent race times to assess current fitness? I feel like you did a mile tt recently that confirmed you're close to last check-in (memory is a bit fuzzy)?

5k Time Trial report (from August 8th)
T+D = 126 (68deg outside, 58DP, 70% humidity)
32:58? Strava says 32:52 (and also shows this run as a 2mi PR at 21:05) Splits were all 10:35

-Define speed work to you? Is there a certain pace threshold you'd like everything to be slower than (5k, 10k, LT, HM, M)?

Probably nothing faster than HM pace. I'm noticing more issues post-runs where I do more speed changes (aka shorter intervals) but also when I'm pushing the pace. I'll get a really good idea of where this all is after my half on the 18th since I'll be actually racing it, and it's also all gravel trail.

-Other than XC, are there any known conflicts coming up between now and Dopey?

At this point, nothing that I know of. I'm sure basketball season will throw a wrench into things since DH is refereeing this year, but that's a wait-and-see thing at this point.

 

[DopeyBadger]

That seems reasonable. And I should know (generally) a week or 2 in advance if I need to juggle weekdays around. Sundays for long runs will work best. I can say that I can for sure do an hour on the other days, and probably 80min. And if a run needs to be longer than that here and there I can run it in the evening when other people are home to keep an eye on DD.

I get the jive that going over 60 min is going to be more hit or miss based on availability. So with that in mind, I think I'll stick with the 60 min cap on weekdays, and then if you know you'll have more time on a day, then reach out with 48hrs notice or so and we can see if we want to up something. Does that sounds reasonable? That way you're only committed to the 60 min, but we leave the door open for more when you know it'll work with your schedule. So:

M- 60 min max
T- OFF
W- 60 min max
R- 60 min max
F- 60 min max
Sa- OFF
Su- 180 min max (run/walk)

Total - 7 hrs max

What has the duration been in each of the last three weeks?

5k Time Trial report (from August 8th)
T+D = 126 (68deg outside, 58DP, 70% humidity)
32:58? Strava says 32:52 (and also shows this run as a 2mi PR at 21:05) Splits were all 10:35

So something like this since you've been doing more run/walk lately:



How does that look to you? Does 90/30 for easy or long days seem about right (and something around 14:04 pace)?

Probably nothing faster than HM pace. I'm noticing more issues post-runs where I do more speed changes (aka shorter intervals) but also when I'm pushing the pace. I'll get a really good idea of where this all is after my half on the 18th since I'll be actually racing it, and it's also all gravel trail.

Sounds good. So nothing faster than about 11:30 pace. And is that average 11:30 pace, or is that during run intervals you don't want to go faster than 11:30 pace as well?

If we do a HM Tempo workout, would you prefer it as intervals (suggested above at 120/30) or would you want to do HM Tempo in continuous intervals (like running 4 x 1 mile at 11:30 pace with the 11:30 pace being continuous for each mile)?

 

[Herding_Cats]

the 60min weekday cap is because that's roughly how long nap time has been. Saying 60min gives me time to get ready for my run *after* DD is down for her nap, do a cooldown walk, and add in any PT exercises for a particular day. Some days she sleeps longer, or if things come up and I push my run to the evening, I can usually run a little bit longer. And if it's supposed to be a slightly longer run, I can make it a point to already have all my stuff on and ready so that as soon as she goes to sleep I can head to the basement and run.

Pacing
I'm going to have to slow myself down a LOT during the run portion to hit 14min pace on a 90/30 interval. According to my garmin I usually walk at around 16:45-17:00 pace (although the duration is short enough that it might not be the most reliable info.)

Yesterday (9 miles) I did 13:30 pace, used 45/30 intervals, and really focused on making my run slower.

When I did my 5k time trail (10:35 pace) I ran 90/30 intervals.

For my 10 miler a few weeks ago I ran a mix of intervals and 60/30 was keeping me around 13:00 pace

For my 5mi HM-pace run I used 90/30 intervals and managed close to 11:42 overall pace.

If my Garmin is to be believed, I'm getting to somewhere between 10:30 and 11:30 pace during my run intervals for the long runs, and I'm running around 9:30-10:30 (during the run interval) during my HM pace runs.

Pace limit
Nothing faster than HM-pace overall would be preferred. I definitely notice more stiffness in my ankle after these runs, but it's still so much better than it was last year, I know the PT exercises are working.

Past 3 weeks
the camping weekend is going to throw things off.
--2h 15min running (plus an hour hike, and about 2.5hrs of walking and pushing the stroller, and pushing my long run due to the camping trip....if you put Monday's long run into "last" week instead of this week it would be 4h15min plus the hiking and walking)
--4hr 10min
--2hr 20min plus 50min of walking (this was XC camp week and I did a lot of other stuff with the younger kids)


If I get all of my runs in this week, I'm going to be at 32 miles or around 7h 10min, again because of rearranging things. I might drop a few miles off that since I haven't run any more than about 22mi in a rolling week all summer. And then it'll be the taper week and a race next weekend. If we bump the long run yesterday into "last week" it makes it 23 miles and around 5hr 10min.


HM pace workouts
The workout I did on 8/28 which was 4x1300m with a 3min recovery interval and I ran intervals for the 1300m worked really well. So, intervals for those also please. The idea of running 11:30 pace for 11:30 is kind of terrifying.

 

[DopeyBadger]

the 60min weekday cap is because that's roughly how long nap time has been. Saying 60min gives me time to get ready for my run *after* DD is down for her nap, do a cooldown walk, and add in any PT exercises for a particular day. Some days she sleeps longer, or if things come up and I push my run to the evening, I can usually run a little bit longer. And if it's supposed to be a slightly longer run, I can make it a point to already have all my stuff on and ready so that as soon as she goes to sleep I can head to the basement and run.

Given this, I think you'll be most successful keeping the weekdays capped at 60 min then. This way we and keep the progression of the plan balanced.

Pacing
I'm going to have to slow myself down a LOT during the run portion to hit 14min pace on a 90/30 interval. According to my garmin I usually walk at around 16:45-17:00 pace (although the duration is short enough that it might not be the most reliable info.)

Yesterday (9 miles) I did 13:30 pace, used 45/30 intervals, and really focused on making my run slower.

When I did my 5k time trail (10:35 pace) I ran 90/30 intervals.

For my 10 miler a few weeks ago I ran a mix of intervals and 60/30 was keeping me around 13:00 pace

For my 5mi HM-pace run I used 90/30 intervals and managed close to 11:42 overall pace.

If my Garmin is to be believed, I'm getting to somewhere between 10:30 and 11:30 pace during my run intervals for the long runs, and I'm running around 9:30-10:30 (during the run interval) during my HM pace runs.

If we move it to an estimated 17:00 min/mile walk, then we get the following instead:



The Option A seems to line up relatively well. You're doing 90/30 for HM Tempo with run pace around 10:30.

If 45/30 is getting you 13:30 avg pace with a 17 min/mile walk pace, then your run pace is around a 12 min/mile (or M Tempo continuous pace). It's a little faster than I'd want for an easy day, but I could live with it.

Past 3 weeks
the camping weekend is going to throw things off.
--2h 15min running (plus an hour hike, and about 2.5hrs of walking and pushing the stroller, and pushing my long run due to the camping trip....if you put Monday's long run into "last" week instead of this week it would be 4h15min plus the hiking and walking)
--4hr 10min
--2hr 20min plus 50min of walking (this was XC camp week and I did a lot of other stuff with the younger kids)


If I get all of my runs in this week, I'm going to be at 32 miles or around 7h 10min, again because of rearranging things. I might drop a few miles off that since I haven't run any more than about 22mi in a rolling week all summer. And then it'll be the taper week and a race next weekend. If we bump the long run yesterday into "last week" it makes it 23 miles and around 5hr 10min.

So somewhere in the 4-5 hr range with a goal of 7 hrs for Dopey training. That's a good place to be. Plan on taking the week after the HM off.

 

[Herding_Cats]

Given this, I think you'll be most successful keeping the weekdays capped at 60 min then. This way we and keep the progression of the plan balanced.



If we move it to an estimated 17:00 min/mile walk, then we get the following instead:

View attachment 700278

The Option A seems to line up relatively well. You're doing 90/30 for HM Tempo with run pace around 10:30.

If 45/30 is getting you 13:30 avg pace with a 17 min/mile walk pace, then your run pace is around a 12 min/mile (or M Tempo continuous pace). It's a little faster than I'd want for an easy day, but I could live with it.



So somewhere in the 4-5 hr range with a goal of 7 hrs for Dopey training. That's a good place to be. Plan on taking the week after the HM off.

Thanks again for all your assistance with this.

 

[Herding_Cats]

I am not getting sick. I am not getting sick. I am not getting sick. *siiiigh* 9 days out from my race.

The garbage that all of the kids had last week has finally found me. Except when I'm the last one to get it, I usually get it the worst. Time to start hitting the vitamin C, and hope that it's resolved by Sunday/Monday.

 

[lookingforsunshine]

I got the white-based epcot sports bra. The current plan is to pair it with my lavender dottie skirt (and orange shoes....I'm still debating getting the headband from etsy with the small figment horns.

That sounds sooo cute!!! Get the headband!

 

[DopeyBadger]

How about this?

 

[Herding_Cats]

Well the sickness that my kids so kindly donated to me was short-lived and I "got over it" after just a few days. However, it completely threw off my whole week from a training perspective because of *when* I got sick.
The plan was 9mi Monday, 3 on Wednesday, 5 Thursday, 3 Friday, and 12 today (Sunday.)


In actuality it was 9 Monday, 3 Wednesday, and 9.35 (2 hours) today. While I missed around 11 miles from my weekly schedule, I feel OK about it since the 9mi Monday run bumped up my weekly mileage total by almost 1/3, and would have put me WAY above all of my other weeks. And that's not something I felt like was a great idea coming off my sinus stuff and the week before my race.

Today's run: 2 hours of some sort of combination for LR/EB pace which means somewhere between 13:00 and 13:30. I settled on a 2 hour run because our weekend has kind of gone crazy (more on that in a minute) and that was absolutely all I had time for. I ran an out-and-back route variation I've only run one other time so I wouldn't be tempted to tap out early, and decided that I would turn around after 1 hour and see if I could sustain for the 2nd hour without too much effort (PLUS the way back is much more uphill.) I used 45/30 intervals for the "out" portion and 60/30 intervals for the "back." 170bpm playlist. The first half splits were 13:00/12:46/12:59/12:37 and the middle mile (which has some overlap) was 12:37. This is where I changed my intervals. Subsequent intervals were 12:33/13:06/13:31(hello big uphill!)/12:18/12:42 for the last 0.35. My ankle, and specifically my achilles, has been really creaky this week. Very tight and I'm 100% hobbling around the house this evening, although that's more sore/tired arches than anything else.

Weekend craziness! It's the Youth Hunt weekend (for whitetail deer) and we've had some very nice bucks on camera, and all 3 of the boys hunt. So on Friday, instead of making up a run, the kids had a half day of school (plus XC practice), DH and I went and picked up a used fridge for the garage, and then I turned back around and took all of the kids to get licenses. That basically ate up the entire evening by the time I got DD to bed. Saturday morning DS2 shot a 10pt deer (YAY!) so we had extra stuff to deal with that and get it dropped off to the processor, DH ref'ed PopWarner football for 9 hours (*sigh*), DS1&2 had long run practice with their team. TODAY we had to return the trailer from hauling the fridge, we made around 30 pints of salsa, and DS1&2 worked at an aid station for the local Ironman race. And I did a 2 hour run. And we are hoping someone sees a shootable deer tonight. We rarely eat beef, so venison makes up nearly all of our red meat consumption; last year none of us got a deer and we are actually starting to get low on venison.

In costuming news, it appears that Figment was meant to be since someone posted both a figment shirt from iglowrunning AND the headband I had been looking at buying, and it was my size. So here we go again figuring out what to wear for the half and full, although at this point it's pretty much which costume on which day.

 

[Herding_Cats]

Sooooo. "Nothing new on race day." Except the skirt I've been waiting for is going to be here on Friday, and I'm going to be 3hrs from home at a XC meet all day. And I'm not scheduled to run on Saturday (race is on Sunday.) I've run in enough skirts at this point that I have a good idea of how high/low to wear it. Do I do the "bad" thing and just wear the skirt? Do a short test run on Saturday? Or do I NOT WEAR THE NEW SKIRT.


And United changed our flight into Orlando yet again. That's 4x now, even with me making a date change. And we are back to a 3hr layover. UUUUGH.

 

[The Expert]

Sooooo. "Nothing new on race day." Except the skirt I've been waiting for is going to be here on Friday, and I'm going to be 3hrs from home at a XC meet all day. And I'm not scheduled to run on Saturday (race is on Sunday.) I've run in enough skirts at this point that I have a good idea of how high/low to wear it. Do I do the "bad" thing and just wear the skirt? Do a short test run on Saturday? Or do I NOT WEAR THE NEW SKIRT.


And United changed our flight into Orlando yet again. That's 4x now, even with me making a date change. And we are back to a 3hr layover. UUUUGH.

If it's an A race, I'd skip the skirt. If not, I'd wear it. But that's just me.

As for the flights, they'll likely change again so hang tight for now. If you're still facing that layover in early November, then I'd look at changing flights if you're able. If it's because of a change they made to the schedule, it shouldn't cost you to do it.

 

[Herding_Cats]

If it's an A race, I'd skip the skirt. If not, I'd wear it. But that's just me.

It is intended to be an A race.

As for the flights, they'll likely change again so hang tight for now. If you're still facing that layover in early November, then I'd look at changing flights if you're able. If it's because of a change they made to the schedule, it shouldn't cost you to do it.

Right. What they're doing is just eliminating flights from Chicago to MCO at this point. Up until about a month ago there were at least 3 more similar options (<1hr layover, around 1.5hrs, 2hrs, and 3hrs) and they have just slowly axed all of the other flights. I already changed our original Tuesday flight to a Monday flight (WOOT! More vacation!) at no cost. The thing that DOESN'T help is that I checked google flights and if we wanted to drive to Grand Rapids and park the car for a week we could fly for half the cost of these United flights, AND they'd be non-stop. But if they cancelled the flights we would be very stuck since they only fly through GR a few days per week.

What I'd really like them to do is change the return flight so I can push it from 730am to 530pm and have a day to maybe hobble around the parks for medal pics.

 

[WillRunForPizza]

Sooooo. "Nothing new on race day." Except the skirt I've been waiting for is going to be here on Friday. And I'm not scheduled to run on Saturday (race is on Sunday.) I've run in enough skirts at this point that I have a good idea of how high/low to wear it. Do I do the "bad" thing and just wear the skirt? Do a short test run on Saturday? Or do I NOT WEAR THE NEW SKIRT.

You'll have shorts underneath, right? Can you have someone on standby to grab it from you if it's not working? Then you could wear it and if you end up hating it during the race, take it off without never seeing it again.