Estoppel fee negotiable?

[shoretodisney]

I was always under the impression that all closing costs were negotiable. Can a buyer not offer to pay/reimburse for the seller's $150 estoppel if they so choose? One broker has told me no.

 

[pzw90]

The estoppel fee is usually seen as a seller fee, unusual to even see the seller/broker ask for it. Unless you’re really lowballing and they are trying to recoup anything.

Depending on the contract and how hard it is to find what you are looking for, $150 is peanuts.

Or offer to pay the estoppel fee if the seller pays the Contract Administration Fee.

 

[shoretodisney]

The estoppel fee is usually seen as a seller fee, unusual to even see the seller/broker ask for it. Unless you’re really lowballing and they are trying to recoup anything.

Depending on the contract and how hard it is to find what you are looking for, $150 is peanuts.

Or offer to pay the estoppel fee if the seller pays the Contract Administration Fee.

Appreciate the advice but for small contracts it can make sense to include in negotiation as commissions are only paid on the price of the points as far as I know. So it can help the seller to recoup $ via estoppel reimbursement vs higher price per point offer, just like making MF reimbursement part of the offer.

Unless I'm missing something.

I really am just curious if anyone has experience to share or an official reason why that particular cost isn't able to be part of the negotiation.

 

[Brian Noble]

Could it be? Probably if you spend enough time trying to explain it. But saving the seller 10% of the estoppel fee---$15---is so marginal that it is probably not worth your time to suggest, and it won't save you much if anything in the long run. You've spent that much in the value of your own time in the back and forth just trying to get there.

 

[shoretodisney]

Could it be? Probably if you spend enough time trying to explain it. But saving the seller 10% of the estoppel fee---$15---is so marginal that it is probably not worth your time to suggest, and it won't save you much if anything in the long run. You've spent that much in the value of your own time in the back and forth just trying to get there.

Agree with you generally but there are all sorts of people out there. You're underestimating the number of buyers that may like the sound of 125pp much more than 128pp on a 50 point contract in exchange for paying the estoppel fee and not think twice or do the math. Or the number of sellers that want their ~$15!

Details aside. I think it's worth establishing whether it actually can or can not be included in negotiation. Hoping someone knows for certain.

Also, I don't like being told no by a broker that's protecting commission over telling the truth, no matter the amount at play.

 

[Brian Noble]

You are reading a lot into that no. It could be "I've never heard of that before so I don't think we can." It could also be "You are a difficult buyer, this is a competitive contract, and experience has taught me dealing with you will not be worth it."

This is also probably complicated by the fact that I believe the estoppel is paid for before closing, and the broker is not going to float that.

However, you do you.

 

[AstroBlasters]

Why make something complex that doesn’t need to be complex?

The more standardized the contracts the greater the chance there isn’t a paperwork error that needs to get fixed.

 

[shoretodisney]

You are reading a lot into that no. It could be "I've never heard of that before so I don't think we can." It could also be "You are a difficult buyer, this is a competitive contract, and experience has taught me dealing with you will not be worth it."

This is also probably complicated by the fact that I believe the estoppel is paid for before closing, and the broker is not going to float that.

However, you do you.

Appreciate the additional reply! You are reading a lot into my question and also making a lot of assumptions about my situation and interaction with the broker. Thank you for trying but respectfully, that's not needed at the moment. All I'm looking for is a definitive answer to my question if anyone who comes across my post has one.

If the broker cannot accommodate for the reason you gave it should be easy to communicate that.

I will continue to do me, mostly because I have no other choice . In order to facilitate doing me in the way I prefer though, I'm on a mission to find an actual answer to my question.

Replies from anyone who may know for certain or have personal experience with the situation already much preferred! No advice needed.

 

[shoretodisney]

Why make something complex that doesn’t need to be complex?

The more standardized the contracts the greater the chance there isn’t a paperwork error that needs to get fixed.

Appreciate the guess. There are many pieces of these transactions that can be made complex if the buyer and seller agree that it works best for them. This is no different in my opinion.

 

[AstroBlasters]

Appreciate the guess. There are many pieces of these transactions that can be made complex if the buyer and seller agree that it works best for them. This is no different in my opinion.

We really have no idea how the back office software at DVC, the title companies, and the brokers work.

Candidly, I wouldn’t want to sell a contract to some with an overly complex offer vs a more standardized offer because I feel the person making the more complex offer could be a bigger pain to deal with later in the process.

 

[Sandisw]

My understanding is that is is billed to the seller from DVC, and it’s a requirement for them to sell.

Since there has never been any reports here of people negotiating that, and when you sell, the brokers tell you, you are responsible for that fee, I don’t think it can be negotiated.

But, the official answer would require you to contact DVC who provides it and ask them.

 

[IsDVCForMe?]

I was always under the impression that all closing costs were negotiable. Can a buyer not offer to pay/reimburse for the seller's $150 estoppel if they so choose? One broker has told me no.

Absolutely. Everything in the contract is negotiable. Apparently it’s the buyer’s obligation to pay the closing fees and CAF and the seller’s obligation to pay the estoppel fee. I did not pay these. Just because something is the “norm” doesn’t mean you have to do it that way. Actually, I like going against the grain. Have at it!

 

[shoretodisney]

My understanding is that is is billed to the seller from DVC, and it’s a requirement for them to sell.

Since there has never been any reports here of people negotiating that, and when you sell, the brokers tell you, you are responsible for that fee, I don’t think it can be negotiated.

But, the official answer would require you to contact DVC who provides it and ask them.

Appreciate your reply! Asking DVC directly is absolutely the move, thank you for suggesting.

 

[shoretodisney]

Absolutely. Everything in the contract is negotiable. Apparently it’s the buyer’s obligation to pay the closing fees and CAF and the seller’s obligation to pay the estoppel fee. I did not pay these. Just because something is the “norm” doesn’t mean you have to do it that way. Actually, I like going against the grain. Have at it!

That was always my impression. I am an against-the-grainer, heavy-on-the-details kind of person and it's suited me very well in life.

You never know what will move the needle for someone. FWIW in this case, I think it did help me find a buyer! It wasn't included in the final offer because the broker didn't know how to facilitate but it generated enough creative thinking to get us to a deal.

Thanks for chiming in!

 

[shoretodisney]

We really have no idea how the back office software at DVC, the title companies, and the brokers work.

Candidly, I wouldn’t want to sell a contract to some with an overly complex offer vs a more standardized offer because I feel the person making the more complex offer could be a bigger pain to deal with later in the process.

Appreciate the reply and advice. My advice would be to keep an open mind with any buyer offering to pay for more of the costs typically found on your side of the transaction. All else being equal, that reads to me like a buyer doing the best they can to think about what may help you, not someone being complex just for the sake of complexity.

 

[IsDVCForMe?]

My understanding is that is is billed to the seller from DVC, and it’s a requirement for them to sell.

Since there has never been any reports here of people negotiating that, and when you sell, the brokers tell you, you are responsible for that fee, I don’t think it can be negotiated.

But, the official answer would require you to contact DVC who provides it and ask them.

Couldn’t you just adjust the price for the estoppel fee to be “paid” by the buyer?

 

[Sandisw]

Couldn’t you just adjust the price for the estoppel fee to be “paid” by the buyer?

That is a question really for MA and/or DVC As someone who has sold about 10 contracts over time, it was presented as my responsibility as it is a requirement of selling and not something that could be negotiated.

I think FL timeshare law deals with what this falls under as well.

That’s why I said, only they can answer.

Bit

 

[AstroBlasters]

Appreciate the reply and advice. My advice would be to keep an open mind with any buyer offering to pay for more of the costs typically found on your side of the transaction. All else being equal, that reads to me like a buyer doing the best they can to think about what may help you, not someone being complex just for the sake of complexity.

I understand where you are coming from, but $150 is not going to move the needle that much.

 

[Jerry@dvcstore]

As a Disney Vacation Club resale agent with The Timeshare Store, with over 25 years of experience, I can share how these transactions are typically structured.

In most cases, the $150 estoppel fee charged by Disney and the brokerage commission are both seller expenses and are paid at closing. While everything is technically negotiable, it’s very rare for the buyer to be asked to cover the estoppel fee.

For buyers, the typical costs include:

• The purchase price
• Closing costs (charged by the title company)
• Annual dues on any applicable current-year points
• The Disney Contract Administration Fee (CAF)

Of course, any terms can be negotiated between buyer and seller. However, the standard and most common structure is that the seller pays the estoppel fee and commission, while the buyer covers the remaining costs listed above.

Any offer can be structured differently, but the most successful accepted offers are as mentioned above. It's all in the presentation, so no matter how you'd like to structure it, as long as you're agreeable and the sellers are, the offer can be written however you prefer.