Estate Planning and DVC - Are You Costing Your Kids $$$??

[kpatches]

Thank you for the info!!!

 

[murphyjh]

Realistically, not legally, speaking, I think I and my kids have these options:
1. Set up a trust, as described - some hassle now,
2. Do nothing now - Kids have hassle of FL lawyer and FL probate when I am gone,
3. Do nothing now; kids continue dealing with MS as usual until contract disappears in 2042 - no hassle at all.
I choose #3. My kids may be breaking some rules or laws by impersonating me, but nobody is harmed.

 

[SuzanneSLO]

Realistically, not legally, speaking, I think I and my kids have these options:
1. Set up a trust, as described - some hassle now,
2. Do nothing now - Kids have hassle of FL lawyer and FL probate when I am gone,
3. Do nothing now; kids continue dealing with MS as usual until contract disappears in 2042 - no hassle at all.
I choose #3. My kids may be breaking some rules or laws by impersonating me, but nobody is harmed.

Your option number 3 may be more of a hassle for your kids than you think.

First, it will potentially cost them any benefit that requires a Member Card, such as AP discounts and TIW. You can avoid this by adding them as members, but this is no easier than transferring ownership to an existing trust. And the potential downside to having adult children as co-owners has been discussed in detail here before.

Second, they cannot sell DVC. Maybe not an issue if you die in 2040, but potentially more of an issue if you die a lot sooner. Then, the only option is probate or forfeiting ownership by no longer paying dues.

Third, the kids have to agree on the use of the DVC points and agree on the payment of dues. The very flexibility of DVC points makes the use issues more difficult than if you had a weekly timeshare. I know I never use the same number of points each year. Why leave them with something they could potentially fight over for years to come?

-- Suzanne

 

[jkersman01]

Your option number 3 may be more of a hassle for your kids than you think.

First, it will potentially cost them any benefit that requires a Member Card, such as AP discounts and TIW. You can avoid this by adding them as members, but this is no easier than transferring ownership to an existing trust. And the potential downside to having adult children as co-owners has been discussed in detail here before.

Second, they cannot sell DVC. Maybe not an issue if you die in 2040, but potentially more of an issue if you die a lot sooner. Then, the only option is probate or forfeiting ownership by no longer paying dues.

Third, the kids have to agree on the use of the DVC points and agree on the payment of dues. The very flexibility of DVC points makes the use issues more difficult than if you had a weekly timeshare. I know I never use the same number of points each year. Why leave them with something they could potentially fight over for years to come?

-- Suzanne

I agree with you Suzanne. Very good points. I can also tell you that from a legal point of view, I'd be pretty surprised if your kids were able to find a lawyer to assist them with the probate of your estate in your home state that would go along with your third option. You're kids are basically asking the lawyer to ignore FL probate rules which, IMO, could put his license to practice at jeopardy. If they searched long enough they may find one, but is that someone you really want overseeing the adminisration of your estate?

 

[murphyjh]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzanneSLO
Your option number 3 may be more of a hassle for your kids than you think.

First, it will potentially cost them any benefit that requires a Member Card, such as AP discounts and TIW. You can avoid this by adding them as members, but this is no easier than transferring ownership to an existing trust. And the potential downside to having adult children as co-owners has been discussed in detail here before.

Second, they cannot sell DVC. Maybe not an issue if you die in 2040, but potentially more of an issue if you die a lot sooner. Then, the only option is probate or forfeiting ownership by no longer paying dues.

Third, the kids have to agree on the use of the DVC points and agree on the payment of dues. The very flexibility of DVC points makes the use issues more difficult than if you had a weekly timeshare. I know I never use the same number of points each year. Why leave them with something they could potentially fight over for years to come?

-- Suzanne

I agree with you Suzanne. Very good points. I can also tell you that from a legal point of view, I'd be pretty surprised if your kids were able to find a lawyer to assist them with the probate of your estate in your home state that would go along with your third option. You're kids are basically asking the lawyer to ignore FL probate rules which, IMO, could put his license to practice at jeopardy. If they searched long enough they may find one, but is that someone you really want overseeing the adminisration of your estate?

Suzanne: You haven't convinced me. First, regarding option #1, my three kids have already been added as members (Cost <$100), so APs, different addresses, etc are no problem. An additional drawback to #1 is that if we decide to sell, the trust formation costs would have been totally wasted.

Second, In comparing #1 and #2, I agree that #2 may cost about twice as much as #1, but I judge that it is less than half as likely to happen. Advantage: Do nothing now.

Third, #3 is, by far, the most likely eventuality. In 2042 my Disney nut daughter will be my presnt age; I expect her to have taken over my job and to keep going to WDW to 2042 and beyond.

My choice amounts to a decision to "self-insure", which I do frequently in purchasing car iinsurance and in declining extended warrenties on purchases, etc. You are free to do differently.

jk: The kids wouldn't be impersonating me except possibly if they tried to sell. They are owners and can deal with MS on their own. Their option would be to inform DVC of my death. and pay the cost of a FL lawyer.

 

[jkersman01]

Second, In comparing #1 and #2, I agree that #2 may cost about twice as much as #1, but I judge that it is less than half as likely to happen. Advantage: Do nothing now.

There are two things to note here. First, your talking about comparing just the FL deed advantage of a revocable trust. You could use your revocable trust to assist in avoiding probate in your home state as well, so you're not considering the total advantage of a revocable trust. If I had to guess my average fee in probating an estate, its probably around $10k-$15k. Tack on fees for an extra state, both costs and attorney fees, and you can see where the costs savings could kick in.

jk: The kids wouldn't be impersonating me except possibly if they tried to sell. They are owners and can deal with MS on their own. Their option would be to inform DVC of my death. and pay the cost of a FL lawyer.

If your kids are joint owners with you, you don't have to worry about probate period. They would take by operation of law and a probate estate is not needed in that case. I'm talking, and I don't want to speak for Suzanne, but it sounds like she's talking, about the situation in which only you (and your spouse) were owners. I think we were missing that key point.

 

[mvc1997]

Know that there is still a fee to do this even though the contracts won't go thru ROFR. The last I checked it was $450 for the first contract, $300 for all subsequent contracts. This info is a couple of years old. Disney can do all of this for you, or maybe you can find an attorney who can do it cheaper. There is the DIY method, but is time consuming. PM Dean for particulars on this.

This is what DVC told us. We would have to have our kids added to the contracts as owners. A new title would have to be issued.

Quote:
my three kids have already been added as members (Cost <$100), so APs, different addresses, etc are no problem.

How is this possible for a cost of $100.00 each?
Thanks,
Candy

Thanks!
Candy

 

[murphyjh]

This is what DVC told us. We would have to have our kids added to the contracts as owners. A new title would have to be issued.

Quote:
my three kids have already been added as members (Cost <$100), so APs, different addresses, etc are no problem.

How is this possible for a cost of $100.00 each?
Thanks,
Candy

Thanks!
Candy

As outlined by Dean (do a search), the steps are:

1. Look up your deed and ROFR waiver here (Orange County Registrar): http://or.occompt.com/recorder/eagleweb/docSearch.jsp

2. Create a ROFR waiver request and send it to DVC. Yes, you do need a waiver.

3. Create a deed from the present set of owners to the new set. Have it notarized.

4. Register the waiver and deed in Orange County FL.

I did this about 5 years ago. Costs (#4) are probably higher now.

 

[mvc1997]

As outlined by Dean (do a search), the steps are:

1. Look up your deed and ROFR waiver here (Orange County Registrar): http://or.occompt.com/recorder/eagleweb/docSearch.jsp

2. Create a ROFR waiver request and send it to DVC. Yes, you do need a waiver.

3. Create a deed from the present set of owners to the new set. Have it notarized.

4. Register the waiver and deed in Orange County FL.

I did this about 5 years ago. Costs (#4) are probably higher now.

Thank You!
But I don't understand "Create a deed" You mean copy the deed & put my kids names in place of ours or add them to the deed next to our names??
Forgive me if I sound dumb.
Thanks, I appreciate all the info I can get.
We already have everything in a Living Trust.

 

[SuzanneSLO]

Thank You!
But I don't understand "Create a deed" You mean copy the deed & put my kids names in place of ours or add them to the deed next to our names??
Forgive me if I sound dumb.
Thanks, I appreciate all the info I can get.
We already have everything in a Living Trust.

That's what we did, but i am a real estate lawyer, just not in Florida. The taxes and fees when we did it 5 years ago were about $75 for 2 contracts.

Also, if you are transferring it to a trust, my understanding is that you may need some specific language for a Florida deed. It may be worthwhile working with a title company familiar with Florida timeshares. -- Suzanne

 

[SuzanneSLO]

Suzanne: You haven't convinced me. First, regarding option #1, my three kids have already been added as members (Cost <$100), so APs, different addresses, etc are no problem. An additional drawback to #1 is that if we decide to sell, the trust formation costs would have been totally wasted.

Second, In comparing #1 and #2, I agree that #2 may cost about twice as much as #1, but I judge that it is less than half as likely to happen. Advantage: Do nothing now.

Third, #3 is, by far, the most likely eventuality. In 2042 my Disney nut daughter will be my presnt age; I expect her to have taken over my job and to keep going to WDW to 2042 and beyond.

My choice amounts to a decision to "self-insure", which I do frequently in purchasing car iinsurance and in declining extended warrenties on purchases, etc. You are free to do differently.

jk: The kids wouldn't be impersonating me except possibly if they tried to sell. They are owners and can deal with MS on their own. Their option would be to inform DVC of my death. and pay the cost of a FL lawyer.

Sorry, I wasn't second guessing your decision. I was just pointing out that a decision that makes sense for you won't necessarily be the best for everyone. For example, I personally have car insurance and would even if my state did not require it. I also have a revocable trust and would even if I didn't own DVC.

As to your kid impersonating you when they try to sell, it is unlikely to be possible without some complicated forging of IDs. I notarized a document in my state for my mother and needed to see her drivers license!

While I don't know Florida law, but if your kids are joint tenants with right of survivorship, then the survivors take ownership on another owners death. If you are just "co-owners," this may not be the case. Check with a Florida attorney if you have questions. -- Suzanne

 

[plutomastif]

Thanks for the info.

 

[scottb8888]

Any newer info on this. We have laready purchased DVC and want to figure out how to trnasfer to our trust?

 

[RobDoc]

Any newer info on this. We have laready purchased DVC and want to figure out how to trnasfer to our trust?

Your contract(s) will need to be sent to DVC for ROFR (this will automatically go through) and then will need to be recorded again with the Trust as the new "owner". The entity that has prepared your Trust can advise the easiest way to accomplish this but it can be done by you personally if desired.

We did this in 2013 and our attorney handled all of the details. Be aware that each contract will need to be re-recorded with the county so if you have a Master Contract with 7 add-ons (as we did), each individual contract will need to get the ROFR waiver (again, not an issue) and each contract will again need to be recorded as they did when originally purchased.

I don't think there much difference now from when this thread was originally posted in 2012.

Good luck!

 

[tdl3903]

What risks do I have today if I was to buy a DVC contract from an estate sale? The maintenance fees are in arrears for 2 years (2015 & 2016) and the remaining balance on the original loan would need to be paid off. Would this still be processed through an ROFR process?

 

[scottb8888]

We did this last year!! Moved our DVC to our Trust!! Great idea

 

[Disneypapa]

My estate attorney advised me to name someone as a jtwros instead of placing my deeded dvc interest in my revocable trust to avoid opening probate in Florida. Was that a good idea?

 

[crisi]

Realistically, not legally, speaking, I think I and my kids have these options:
1. Set up a trust, as described - some hassle now,
2. Do nothing now - Kids have hassle of FL lawyer and FL probate when I am gone,
3. Do nothing now; kids continue dealing with MS as usual until contract disappears in 2042 - no hassle at all.
I choose #3. My kids may be breaking some rules or laws by impersonating me, but nobody is harmed.

I'm taking door #2. The chances both my husband and I die before we sell or the contract expires are statistically small - its a risk I'll take. We will be in our 70s when it expires - barring an accident - our family histories say we should each live into our 80s. Probate is easy should it happen - at least in the four states I've been through it in, and it isn't my kids who have to deal with it, its our executor. Its an early expiration date contract, so it isn't a huge deal if it just sits for the last few years.

 

[Dean]

Know that there is still a fee to do this even though the contracts won't go thru ROFR. The last I checked it was $450 for the first contract, $300 for all subsequent contracts. This info is a couple of years old. Disney can do all of this for you, or maybe you can find an attorney who can do it cheaper. There is the DIY method, but is time consuming. PM Dean for particulars on this.

That's for a full service closing, it can be done much cheaper.

This is what DVC told us. We would have to have our kids added to the contracts as owners. A new title would have to be issued.

Quote:
my three kids have already been added as members (Cost <$100), so APs, different addresses, etc are no problem.

How is this possible for a cost of $100.00 each?
Thanks,
Candy

Thanks!
Candy

You can do it yourself for under $40 per contract plus any fees for notary and for the deed template.

Thank You!
But I don't understand "Create a deed" You mean copy the deed & put my kids names in place of ours or add them to the deed next to our names??
Forgive me if I sound dumb.
Thanks, I appreciate all the info I can get.
We already have everything in a Living Trust.

Take a quit claim deed template that's FL specific and fill out the details. Use your current deed for wording. Remember it needs 2 witnesses PLUS a notary. The notary can also be a witness but must sign extra on the witness line in addition. For changing names it's that easy. IF a trust is involved, I'd check with your attorney about how it needs to be done but in most cases, a quit claim deed should work there as well.

 

[mustinjourney]

I agree with you Suzanne. Very good points. I can also tell you that from a legal point of view, I'd be pretty surprised if your kids were able to find a lawyer to assist them with the probate of your estate in your home state that would go along with your third option. You're kids are basically asking the lawyer to ignore FL probate rules which, IMO, could put his license to practice at jeopardy. If they searched long enough they may find one, but is that someone you really want overseeing the adminisration of your estate?

you don't trust someone like this guy?