Essential/Nonessential vs. Safe/Not safe

[piccolopat]

Many states have closed all but what the government deems to be "essential" businesses. While that was a quick and easy way to limit public exposure to the coronavirus, it might not be the best solution. I'm starting to think that it is time for government to start to distinguish between safe and unsafe business as far as public exposure goes. For example, landscapers are allowed to do maintenance and repair work but they can't install a new landscape. How does that work create a public health threat? Another example is with construction. Governments have deemed construction of new affordable housing as essential but no other housing. How is building one house different than another? I can go to the supermarket to buy food but I can't drop off donations to Goodwill. One can argue that dropping bags off at Goodwill is far less risky than spending an hour in a supermarket with many other people, some of whom don't follow social distancing and other safety measures. I can get on a NYC subway but I can't go to a movie theater (even with social distancing enforced). In some areas, I can go to a store like Walmart to buy food, but I can't buy a TV in the same store. As government starts to develop plans to reopen the economy, I think they should start with opening business that can be safe (with or without additional safety rules). What do you think?

 

[BuckeyeBama]

It is bringing together people that creates the risk, not the work that they are doing while together. We need to eliminate that "coming together" wherever possible. I don't know who should decide what determines something "essential" or not, and I do not envy them the associated responsibility, so I won't criticize their choices.

 

[mjkacmom]

People need to buy groceries to survive, they don’t need TV’s (although it’s pretty easy to buy one online). Our food pantry is accepting food donations, but not other items, since no one can shop there, and it puts workers at risk. No one needs to go to the movie theater, people need to use subways to get food, or if they are essential, their jobs. People need low income housing to live, luxury apartments aren’t needed in an emergency (we have some in town that have stopped construction, if you can afford a $2000 a month one bedroom, you can find housing).

We choose in our household what is essential, most of the time we stick with avoiding unnecessary risk, although when I found out Carvel was delivering last week, I couldn’t resist.

 

[siren0119]

At least for Goodwill and other donation businesses - it's not you (the donor) they are protecting by staying closed. The workers come in contact with all the stuff from multiple homes and that puts them at very high risk.

Also the myth that you can be "safe" maintaining 6' of distance for long periods of time has been busted too. The 6' social distancing works for short periods of interaction but not if you're congregating for an hour or more. Shopping in a supermarket doesn't put you in extended contact with the same people for long periods, it puts you in passing contact with people for very short periods. Not the same as going to a movie theater, where you are sitting in a room with other people, even socially distanced, for 2-ish hours.

 

[mikehn]

I have definitely seen people come out of Costco with TVs over the past couple weeks. I did notice the Sams Club closed down their tire center. You cant even buy tires online at Sams anymore. These are government employees that made up these rules, so take it for what its worth.

 

[lorimay]

Its clear social distancing seems to be working.......

Why is there talk of re-opening earlier?????

We are going to be back to square one and never get out of this hole.......

Please be patient, there is light at the end of the tunnel............

 

[Brett Wyman]

Its clear social distancing seems to be working.......

Why is there talk of re-opening earlier?????

We are going to be back to square one and never get out of this hole.......

Please be patient, there is light at the end of the tunnel............

I figured it was pretty obvious.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/j...aight-week-push-unemployment-to-15-2020-04-15

 

[piccolopat]

People need to buy groceries to survive, they don’t need TV’s (although it’s pretty easy to buy one online). Our food pantry is accepting food donations, but not other items, since no one can shop there, and it puts workers at risk. No one needs to go to the movie theater, people need to use subways to get food, or if they are essential, their jobs. People need low income housing to live, luxury apartments aren’t needed in an emergency (we have some in town that have stopped construction, if you can afford a $2000 a month one bedroom, you can find housing).

We choose in our household what is essential, most of the time we stick with avoiding unnecessary risk, although when I found out Carvel was delivering last week, I couldn’t resist.

I think my point is that sometimes "essential" is less safe than "non-essential" and so may not be the best criteria to use. I also think some things that are considered essential are questionable, such as liquor stores. You are right in that people need groceries to survive, but if I'm going to Walmart how is buying non-essential food such as soda or chips any different than buying a new computer or a desk that might be needed for stay at home work or schooling? IMHO, the safety of the workers and the public should be the primary determining factor as to what businesses can be open. If non-essential businesses can safely operate, I think they should be allowed to do so.

 

[lorimay]

I figured it was pretty obvious.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/j...aight-week-push-unemployment-to-15-2020-04-15

Of course I understand that.
But people will die if we just open up........
The country is a mess, but death is permanent!

 

[morgan98]

I think my point is that sometimes "essential" is less safe than "non-essential" and so may not be the best criteria to use. I also think some things that are considered essential are questionable, such as liquor stores. You are right in that people need groceries to survive, but if I'm going to Walmart how is buying non-essential food such as soda or chips any different than buying a new computer or a desk that might be needed for stay at home work or schooling? IMHO, the safety of the workers and the public should be the primary determining factor as to what businesses can be open. If non-essential businesses can safely operate, I think they should be allowed to do so.

I agree that some of the essential vs. non essential seems random. Like why is the Academy Sports store essential but other large box stores are not when the same distancing could be maintained? I agree that if social distancing can be maintained we need to let businesses operate.

However, wine is essential, so there is that.

 

[siren0119]

I think my point is that sometimes "essential" is less safe than "non-essential" and so may not be the best criteria to use. I also think some things that are considered essential are questionable, such as liquor stores. You are right in that people need groceries to survive, but if I'm going to Walmart how is buying non-essential food such as soda or chips any different than buying a new computer or a desk that might be needed for stay at home work or schooling? IMHO, the safety of the workers and the public should be the primary determining factor as to what businesses can be open. If non-essential businesses can safely operate, I think they should be allowed to do so.

Honestly (and it's awful but very real), liquor stores remaining open keeps people with alcohol withdrawal out of the hospitals. ETOH protocol takes 2-4 days and they can't have beds tied up for that long when the positive cases are still surging. I'm sure a hefty portion of that decision was also motivated by tax money to the states, but at least for my friends, family and coworkers on the medical front lines, this decision did keep people temporarily out of the hospitals. Sadly they also acknowledge that this will create a surge of its own on the tail end of ETOH and alcohol dependency.

 

[sam_gordon]

Also the myth that you can be "safe" maintaining 6' of distance for long periods of time has been busted too. The 6' social distancing works for short periods of interaction but not if you're congregating for an hour or more.

Proof please?

If you can go in a store to buy groceries, there's no reason you shouldn't be able to buy anything else in that store.
If someone can mow/trim a yard, there's no reason they can't plant.

I think it would be good for our leaders to say "here are the benchmarks we're looking for before we start reopening tasks". AND even say "here are the steps we'll take to reopen" (It should not be picking a day and everything is back open)

 

[mjkacmom]

I think my point is that sometimes "essential" is less safe than "non-essential" and so may not be the best criteria to use. I also think some things that are considered essential are questionable, such as liquor stores. You are right in that people need groceries to survive, but if I'm going to Walmart how is buying non-essential food such as soda or chips any different than buying a new computer or a desk that might be needed for stay at home work or schooling? IMHO, the safety of the workers and the public should be the primary determining factor as to what businesses can be open. If non-essential businesses can safely operate, I think they should be allowed to do so.

I support the liquor stores, but since I’m in a hot spot all liquor stores are curbside pickup or delivery only. Yes, I like my wine, but I’m a big supporter of local business, and since the product is non perishable, they should be able to stay in business.

 

[soccerdad72]

If you can go in a store to buy groceries, there's no reason you shouldn't be able to buy anything else in that store.
If someone can mow/trim a yard, there's no reason they can't plant.

I think the problem is that while people are out buying essential items, they're lingering in the stores browsing for everything else, because they want to get out of their house.

I don't necessarily agree with closing off parts of stores, but I can understand some of the logic behind it.

 

[sam_gordon]

I think the problem is that while people are out buying essential items, they're lingering in the stores browsing for everything else, because they want to get out of their house.

I don't necessarily agree with closing off parts of stores, but I can understand some of the logic behind it.

eh, not really. If someone wants to get out of the house, they can still roam around the grocery aisles. Having parts of the store closed off really doesn't accomplish anything.

I went into Lowe's last week for some repair things and I noticed they had added folding table next to the paint counter. I know some on here were complaining because the paint department was open, but by adding the tables, that extended the interaction distance. I thought it was a decent compromise.

 

[rotlex]

Not sure I understand the difference between essential and non-essential businesses being open. So it's OK to go int Walmart, usually PACKED around here and mingle with all the people buying food and clothing, but NOT OK to go to my local electronics or similar store that normally only has 1-2 people in it anyway.

 

[rotlex]

I think the problem is that while people are out buying essential items, they're lingering in the stores browsing for everything else, because they want to get out of their house.

I don't necessarily agree with closing off parts of stores, but I can understand some of the logic behind it.

My wife and I had a similar discussion last night at dinner. We came to the conclusion that by closing off certain parts of stores, they are basically hoarding people together even more tightly in the areas that are open. She's right too, at least around here in any multi product stores such as Target, Walmart etc,

 

[mjkacmom]

According to our governor, abortions are essential, appendectomies are not.

Abortions take place in clinics most of the time, not hospitals. You can’t terminate a pregnancy with IV antibiotics and a prescription and you can’t force a woman to continue an unwanted pregnancy.

 

[kymom99]

Proof please?

If you can go in a store to buy groceries, there's no reason you shouldn't be able to buy anything else in that store.
If someone can mow/trim a yard, there's no reason they can't plant.

I think it would be good for our leaders to say "here are the benchmarks we're looking for before we start reopening tasks". AND even say "here are the steps we'll take to reopen" (It should not be picking a day and everything is back open)

We don’t have sections of our stores closed off here. If they are open you can buy what they sell.

 

[soccerdad72]

My wife and I had a similar discussion last night at dinner. We came to the conclusion that by closing off certain parts of stores, they are basically hoarding people together even more tightly in the areas that are open. She's right too, at least around here in any multi product stores such as Target, Walmart etc,

If the store is following the requirements of limiting the number of customers in a store, assuming they've adjusted for the open area of the store, overcrowding shouldn't be an issue.