Epcot Hotel Back On?

[HopperFan]

I would presume he got it from a public permit database, but I have not come across it in the ones that I know about. There is a chance that he has access to something that has not been made public yet.

Tom Bricker has put out an article to address this ...

He is saying that the realtor guy looks at construction bid information on "Dodge Data & Analytics" that tracks construction.

He does not believe him since he's found nothing to support a permit and agrees that the permit awarding to BVCC makes no sense since they don't do that kind of work.

Tom believes if they are going forward with lodging construction it will be Reflections and they will consider that Riveria is only 50% sold out before beginning anything. DVC sales are slowing and could get worse making this statement a bold assumption at this time.

He does think it has a future especially since they nixed the multi story CommuniCore Hall & Plaza. The hotel height could replace that with viewing options, dining etc. with rooftop space for special events. He thinks the close to gate location would be a big selling point. Was CommuniCore cancelled to move focus to a DVC??

Bottom line he said he wouldn't even call it a rumor at this point since there isn't a "single credible insider" who has knowledge this was brought back to life. He believes Reflections has a better chance.

 

[HopperFan]

Tom Bricker has put out an article to address this ...

He is saying that the realtor guy looks at construction bid information on "Dodge Data & Analytics" that tracks construction.

He does not believe him since he's found nothing to support a permit and agrees that the permit awarding to BVCC makes no sense since they don't do that kind of work.

Tom believes if they are going forward with lodging construction it will be Reflections and they will consider that Riveria is only 50% sold out before beginning anything. DVC sales are slowing and could get worse making this statement a bold assumption at this time.

He does think it has a future especially since they nixed the multi story CommuniCore Hall & Plaza. The hotel height could replace that with viewing options, dining etc. with rooftop space for special events. He thinks the close to gate location would be a big selling point. Was CommuniCore cancelled to move focus to a DVC??

Bottom line he said he wouldn't even call it a rumor at this point since there isn't a "single credible insider" who has knowledge this was brought back to life. He believes Reflections has a better chance.

I see something close to what he is talking about and I think he is wrong. Most info like companies is blurred to me as I'm not a member but I can see basics.

There is a large deal for "Hotel/Motel" but it is for Guest Room Renovations. I see the Contemporary, Polynesian, Boardwalk and Grand Floridian. Can see lots of big projects; Star Wars hotel, parking garage etc.

But then I see this which could fit with his theory "Apartments/Condominiums 1-3 Stories, Apartments/Condominiums 4+ Stories, Swimming Pool, Social Club, Miscellaneous Recreational" BUT it is for Affordable Housing and I think it is likely part of the promise from Disney to build apartments for CMs.

There is nothing here that indicates a new from start resort.

 

[easyas123]

Dodge Data & Analytics

I subscribe to Dodge reports, and that's right, no - if a Dodge report comes out that doesn't make it so.

I could be low on a bid, and Dodge will report it, but it doesn't mean that the Owner has awarded the project, that contracts and bonds have been signed OR that permits have been applied for yet. Or that the Owner has the $$$ if the low bid is over budget and/or dependent upon Local/state or federal funding sources or even if it's not subject to funding guidelines but the engineers estimate is way off base. Always the chance the project gets shelved or put out for re-bid. Dodge will report on both of these situations though. It is also not uncommon to have a project that comes out for bid that is not construction, rather engineering even though the name of the project is the same so it can sometimes be misleading with out a ITB to go along with it.
And of course, there could be a apparent low bidder reported on Dodge that ends up being disqualified for one reason or another, or they let them out of the bid and it gets awarded to the second or another bidder.

*this is just a very generic overview of Dodge and how it works, it is no way specific to any project blahblahblah

 

[MickeyMouse3!]

I wish they would expand the parks before adding thousands more resort guests to an already crowded park scene.

 

[tjkraz]

I'm not sure how many units Poly and this new Epcot hotel are going to add, but the more onsite hotels that happen further dilute the "benefits" of staying on property.

That's a different argument than simply saying "Parks are already saturated but let's increase the head count even more."

Over the past 10+ years, net room count isn't very dramatic. The first Poly DVC was a hotel room conversion. Copper Creek = conversion. Riviera was facilitated by knocking down Caribbean Beach hotel rooms. The newest Grand Floridian DVC villas = conversion. Those projects added few, if any, rooms to WDW's total inventory.

Gran Destino tower added about 550 rooms. Poly tower looks to be about 250 rooms. So WDW's overall total grew by about 3%.

Gran Destino guests aren't eligible for Extended Evening Hours. I guess if you're worried about there being 3% more people during Extra Magic Hours...

At the same time, Disney is not selling Annual Passes and park Pass is limiting overall crowds on some days. So in reality, park crowds are likely smaller than pre-covid anyway.

 

[tjkraz]

I wish they would expand the parks before adding thousands more resort guests to an already crowded park scene.

More hotel rooms =/= more theme park guests. Especially with no APs available and Park Pass placing a cap on attendance.

 

[OKW Lover]

So 2 new hotels and 0 new attractions (Bayou Mountain doesn't count), we should be hearing rumblings about Dinoland and Encanto-Coco-Villains? land being green lit, not more hotels. HS needs animation courtyard re-developed into attractions as well.

Parks are already saturated but let's increase the head count even more. Love the mentality there, they clearly have the guest experience as their number one priority.

This doesn't hold water. People don't visit WDW for the new hotels. So building new hotels won't increase park attendance. New hotels just help Disney capture the people who stay off-site when they come to visit the parks.

 

[Dis Dragon]

Granted they don't visit for hotels, but an argument could be made that offsite guests divide their attention with different venues in central Florida, whereas an onsite guest is spending their money to focus on Disney.

I was more trying to make a point that they're focusing on hotel income and not long term park growth.

 

[HopperFan]

This doesn't hold water. People don't visit WDW for the new hotels. So building new hotels won't increase park attendance. New hotels just help Disney capture the people who stay off-site when they come to visit the parks.

Agree, but since new "hotels" are really timeshares, they are likely wooing people who want to try out the DVC before buying or are deluxe people. It will only move folks from one place to another IF they are even park people. Disney has managed to sell a large number of DVC without any promise of much anything more beyond the resort. I imagine it is pretty sweet income to them. Building has been mostly DVC. Since 2000 they built AKL, POP and AoA with an addition to CSR. Everything else has been adding DVC rooms. Disney has opted to let hotels be built offsite (even promoted via Flamingo Crossing) and focus on DVC.

Granted they don't visit for hotels, but an argument could be made that offsite guests divide their attention with different venues in central Florida, whereas an onsite guest is spending their money to focus on Disney.

I was more trying to make a point that they're focusing on hotel income and not long term park growth.

I disagree with this.

If you crunch the numbers ... 28,000 rooms x avg of 4 guests (I think that is high) = @112,000.

Park capacity without considering water parks, Disney Springs and hotel restaurants = @325,000.

This means Disney HIGHLY depends on offsite guests because they account for 2/3rds of the guests and associated income. Even if those guests add some days at other parks (we rarely do) all that matters to Disney is they commit the 4+ days to them, one group right after another.

 

[Disturbia]

This article is interesting and helps to understand Disney’s hotel strategy.

https://skift.com/2017/01/16/understanding-disneys-domestic-hotel-strategy/amp/

 

[Disturbia]

Disney has a captive audience to market their unique hotel experiences to:

http://disneyatwork.com/what-disney-learned-from-marriott/

https://boardwalktimes.net/staying-...history-of-disneys-resort-hotels-712500fdbad4

https://boardwalktimes.net/staying-...f-disneys-resort-hotels-part-two-22543f27affa

 

[The Jackal]

Agree, but since new "hotels" are really timeshares, they are likely wooing people who want to try out the DVC before buying or are deluxe people. It will only move folks from one place to another IF they are even park people. Disney has managed to sell a large number of DVC without any promise of much anything more beyond the resort. I imagine it is pretty sweet income to them. Building has been mostly DVC. Since 2000 they built AKL, POP and AoA with an addition to CSR. Everything else has been adding DVC rooms. Disney has opted to let hotels be built offsite (even promoted via Flamingo Crossing) and focus on DVC.



I disagree with this.

If you crunch the numbers ... 28,000 rooms x avg of 4 guests (I think that is high) = @112,000.

Park capacity without considering water parks, Disney Springs and hotel restaurants = @325,000.

This means Disney HIGHLY depends on offsite guests because they account for 2/3rds of the guests and associated income. Even if those guests add some days at other parks (we rarely do) all that matters to Disney is they commit the 4+ days to them, one group right after another.

WDW is no where near capacity on a daily basis. Usually only MK on 1 or 2 days a year hits max capacity for a few hours. Pre pandemic average daily attendance was probably around 130,000 to all parks. It is less now. One can only estimate since WDW does not report numbers. Also how many went to 2 or even. 3 parks in one day. Numbers can easily be skewed.

 

[Katie & Glen]

Is it possible and I don’t know the permit process in Orlando…that said permits were filed but like anything it take the government a week or so to update it to their systems? Again ignorance to construction permits.

If there were any sort of permit, @DanBoris would have found it and you can be certain it would be on the permit thread over at wdwmagic.

He and others there are masters at sniffing out things and figuring them figuring them out. They had skyliner identified and laid out well before any announcements.

If they can't find it, it Doesn't exist / hasn't been filed. I would trust them every time over clickbait corliss.

 

[jade1]

The DVc bay tower is an eyesore. Completely doesn’t fit with the Contemporary

 

[Pooh's World]

View attachment 744507

Eyesore.

Why could they not make it look the same. And why a circular building

 

[peabody58]

The DVc bay tower is an eyesore. Completely doesn’t fit with the Contemporary

I would disagree, but then I am biased as I have an emotional attachment to the CR and am an owner at BLT. Great thing about WDW is that there is a design for everyone.

As far as the 'fit' for BLT, I would recommend reading this very insightful article on the design elements of BLT and how they compliment the CR design elements.

BLT Critique and Designer Mr. Gwanthmey

 

[BrianL]

I would disagree, but then I am biased as I have an emotional attachment to the CR and am an owner at BLT. Great thing about WDW is that there is a design for everyone.

As far as the 'fit' for BLT, I would recommend reading this very insightful article on the design elements of BLT and how they compliment the CR design elements.

BLT Critique and Designer Mr. Gwanthmey

Yeah, I think BLT looks fine. I like the mini-outline of the Contemporary at the top.

 

[BroadwayHermione5]

PLEASE! I would spend the money there especially during the heavier festival weekends

 

[Moliphino]

BLT offends me the least of all of the towers. Riviera is too boring and doesn't fit when surrounded by CBR. Gran Destino doesn't fit with the CSR theming. The Poly one looks like it'll be a boring eyesore, too.

 

[RoseGold]

Just because it isn't happening right now doesn't mean it won't happen. I think this product will be back and totally makes sense.

The luxury Waldorf and Four Seasons category is where Disney has thrown in the towel. Disney "deluxe" isn't even in the ballpark. The Epcot hotel could have a real luxury product.

This hotel isn't about headcount, it's about the high rollers.