Enthusiastic about Genie+ touring

[NickC]

If it works the way you're predicting it will, that would be great. But, at the same time, I was able to do everything that I wanted under the old system. WDW is already a different experience than it was 8 or 9 years ago. I'm not postponing my trips *because* of Genie+, but it's just another variable to wait and see.

 

[havoc315]

Nope.That's not what I said at all...I think I was clear in that. I know there are people who cant'/couldn't afford WDW before all these changes. These changes however will definitely shift the average cost of a vacation here to a MUCH higher bracket,in order to try desperately to mimic the previous offerings at a lower price point.....so I guess I'll be clearer here. At one point, Disney was pretty cheap and accessible to most families (think way back in the day of $3 admission and a ticket book) and it's steadily climbed for years now. While I understand the bottom line/make a buck mentality of what's going on,I DISLIKE it intensely. This newest Genie+ etc nonsense is the final straw IMHO. Maybe not for OP,or you,or a bunch of people who can afford the extra costs now.
But this puts it over the top,making what was once fairly easily accessible (a basic theme park trip) into a circus of high costs combined with lower expectations (I'm talking the entire package,resorts and parks) That no longer seems fun,relaxing or worth my money. And as a pp noted,I like to travel with other families,who have different price points they can manage. That changes a LOT for me too...since I can afford these ridiculous upcharges(if I wanted to) but some of them cannot. This TAKES AWAY from the general experience,at a higher cost.
......AND...... as I've noted in other threads...all of this just makes me sad. I miss what once was.

I understand all that. And I understand missing the days when WDW may have been a very affordable repast, but important to keep perspective and context. Annual Pass prices just went way up. The price of the dining plan has practically tripled in about 10 years. Removal of DME easily adds $60+ in transportation costs.
So maybe the $15 of G+ is the final straw for you. But in perspective, this is a drop in the bucket of Disney price increases.

And personally, I wish they would charge a lot more than $15, believe it or not. Because G+ will be a better product the fewer people that use it. If only 10-20% of WDW guests buy G+, it will easily become nearly ride upon demand. If everyone buys it, then it becomes like FP+, with very limited availability of tier-1 attractions. So my concern is they priced it too cheaply, and too many people will purchase it. But we will see. Not everyone will spend $15 per day for it, which will make it better than FP+. Question is how many refuse to pay for it.

 

[havoc315]

Nice hyperbole.

Hyperbole is pretending the $15 of G+ is THE end of the world that prices out families. Ignoring the increased prices of tickets, the increased prices of resorts, of dining.

For a medium length trip, a WDW ticket is easily $400 per person. You don't think $400 per person prices out tons of American families?
And unlike G+, a ticket isn't optional -- You can't enter WDW without a ticket. You can enter and enjoy WDW without G+.

 

[Sinder]

It's not just $15 though.
It's $15 per person per day. Then it is an additional $10-$25 (depending on demand and time of year) X2 per person per day for LL rides.

So for my family to have what was previously included in our ticket prices it would be an additional
$375 for G+ and an additional $500-$1250 for LL attractions.
So for an extra $875-$1675 we can enjoy no stand-by lines in the attractions we have ridden in the past with free FP. I suppose I could "save" by dropping our usual park days to 4 instead of 5.
Or I could just do the basic G+ for a couple days, or 1 day and add LL's on others, but then it isn't how I want to do my WDW vacation. No matter how you slice it, it is an additional expense to do the same vacation I have done in the past. I understand that costs go up for every trip, but this isn't a slight increase to have the same experience. It isn't a trivial expense, and it isn't just $15 that breaks the bank for some.

 

[NavyDad]

1. Comparing WDW to DL or the parks in Asia is just pointless. The scale and volume are just so vastly different. How a system works in one of those other parks is just completely irrelevant.

2. I really don't care if people like the new changes or don't like them. I don't care if you say you are not going to the parks anymore or if you are going to go more. The same gripes and complaints have been going on here for years and years and years.

This sub is for strategies to help others better enjoy or navigate the parks. It's not for pining for 1995, 2005 or 2015.

What are the best tips and strategies for navigating the new changes to get the best experience and the best bang for your buck?

 

[havoc315]

It's not just $15 though.
It's $15 per person per day. Then it is an additional $10-$25 (depending on demand and time of year) X2 per person per day for LL rides.

So for my family to have what was previously included in our ticket prices it would be an additional
$375 for G+ and an additional $500-$1250 for LL attractions.
So for an extra $875-$1675 we can enjoy no stand-by lines in the attractions we have ridden in the past with free FP. I suppose I could "save" by dropping our usual park days to 4 instead of 5.
Or I could just do the basic G+ for a couple days, or 1 day and add LL's on others, but then it isn't how I want to do my WDW vacation. No matter how you slice it, it is an additional expense to do the same vacation I have done in the past. I understand that costs go up for every trip, but this isn't a slight increase to have the same experience. It isn't a trivial expense, and it isn't just $15 that breaks the bank for some.

Your math is quite exaggerated. $1250 in LL?!?! That assumes every LL attraction is $25, which they aren't all that high. It assumes your family will insist on doing 2 LL attractions per day. You do realize, "Free FPs" will remain an option for at least ROTR and for the Rat, in the form of boarding groups? So you will have an opportunity to grab a "free" FP. You're also assuming you will repeat LL attractions more than once. You're ignoring the possibility that not everyone wants to do every LL attraction (for example, I have no interest in Space Mountain or Slinky). You're ignoring the possibility of doing those rides during extended hours, or during a low wait regular standby line.
And if you really do insist on purchasing 2 LLs every day AND G+ every day -- You are getting a value much much higher than FP+. Spending that money effectively guarantees you a minimum of 3 tier-1 E-ticket attractions in a day (likely more, but at a minimum, you'd get the 2 LLs and your pick of a G+ reservation). Under FP+, at the tiered parks, your best case scenario was to be guaranteed only 1 tier-1 attraction).

And as to G+, you ignore that it might actually be silly to buy it some days. For example, if your day is mainly a morning in Animal Kingdom, it may not even be worthwhile to buy G+. Just like FP+ to Indy and BATB was worthless, there will be days where G+ gives no value.

But let's say you do stay 5 nights/5 days.... And you add G+ every day, and you do 1 LL attraction per day on average. (for 5 out of the 7-8. Maybe you get free BG's to some, maybe you skip some, maybe you do that in the morning or night), and let's say the AVERAGE LL price is about $20 (likely lower), that would be an extra $175 per ticket.
5 day parkhoppers are about $600 per person, depending on time of year. So it's about an extra 29% on top of the ticket price.
But... accommodations are about, on average, $75-200 per person per night -- And food is easily $50 to $100 per person per night. And airfare, is really at least $300-$500 per person.
So the total cost per person goes from about $ per person to about $1525-$2600 per person to $1700 to $2775 -- a bit under a 7-10% increase, for those that CHOOSE to extensively use G+/LL. Of course, you can easily choose against it for some or all days.

My main objection to G+/LL -- it should be much more expensive. If it was $100 per person per day instead of $15, people would realize it's just an OPTION and not something they are required to add. It's cheap enough that it feels like everyone is assuming they will add it. The fewer people that add it, the better the product becomes. If it was $100 per person and only 10% of guests added it, it would essentially become a pass on demand. If everyone adds it, then it becomes FP+ -- Very limited availability of popular rides.

Anyway, Disney just increased the prices of their APs by up to 35% for many users. Their dining plan has increased about 90% in just 10 years. So looking at G+ in perspective, it's a pretty small "straw" to break the camel's back. As I said, my main objection, it isn't expensive enough.

 

[havoc315]

1. Comparing WDW to DL or the parks in Asia is just pointless. The scale and volume are just so vastly different. How a system works in one of those other parks is just completely irrelevant.

2. I really don't care if people like the new changes or don't like them. I don't care if you say you are not going to the parks anymore or if you are going to go more. The same gripes and complaints have been going on here for years and years and years.

This sub is for strategies to help others better enjoy or navigate the parks. It's not for pining for 1995, 2005 or 2015.

What are the best tips and strategies for navigating the new changes to get the best experience and the best bang for your buck?

1 -- The scale and volume of Magic Kingdom is indeed very similar to DL. The scale and volume of DCA is very similar to Epcot or DHS or AK.
2-- Agreed, and we can look at the past and other parks to start to develop the best tips and strategies. Which will need to be fine tuned once the system is actually put into place.

 

[Sinder]

Your math is quite exaggerated. $1250 in LL?!?! That assumes every LL attraction is $25, which they aren't all that high. It assumes your family will insist on doing 2 LL attractions per day. You do realize, "Free FPs" will remain an option for at least ROTR and for the Rat, in the form of boarding groups? So you will have an opportunity to grab a "free" FP. You're also assuming you will repeat LL attractions more than once. You're ignoring the possibility that not everyone wants to do every LL attraction (for example, I have no interest in Space Mountain or Slinky). You're ignoring the possibility of doing those rides during extended hours, or during a low wait regular standby line.
And if you really do insist on purchasing 2 LLs every day AND G+ every day -- You are getting a value much much higher than FP+. Spending that money effectively guarantees you a minimum of 3 tier-1 E-ticket attractions in a day (likely more, but at a minimum, you'd get the 2 LLs and your pick of a G+ reservation). Under FP+, at the tiered parks, your best case scenario was to be guaranteed only 1 tier-1 attraction).

And as to G+, you ignore that it might actually be silly to buy it some days. For example, if your day is mainly a morning in Animal Kingdom, it may not even be worthwhile to buy G+. Just like FP+ to Indy and BATB was worthless, there will be days where G+ gives no value.

But let's say you do stay 5 nights/5 days.... And you add G+ every day, and you do 1 LL attraction per day on average. (for 5 out of the 7-8. Maybe you get free BG's to some, maybe you skip some, maybe you do that in the morning or night), and let's say the AVERAGE LL price is about $20 (likely lower), that would be an extra $175 per ticket.
5 day parkhoppers are about $600 per person, depending on time of year. So it's about an extra 29% on top of the ticket price.
But... accommodations are about, on average, $75-200 per person per night -- And food is easily $50 to $100 per person per night. And airfare, is really at least $300-$500 per person.
So the total cost per person goes from about $ per person to about $1525-$2600 per person to $1700 to $2775 -- a bit under a 7-10% increase, for those that CHOOSE to extensively use G+/LL. Of course, you can easily choose against it for some or all days.

My main objection to G+/LL -- it should be much more expensive. If it was $100 per person per day instead of $15, people would realize it's just an OPTION and not something they are required to add. It's cheap enough that it feels like everyone is assuming they will add it. The fewer people that add it, the better the product becomes. If it was $100 per person and only 10% of guests added it, it would essentially become a pass on demand. If everyone adds it, then it becomes FP+ -- Very limited availability of popular rides.

Anyway, Disney just increased the prices of their APs by up to 35% for many users. Their dining plan has increased about 90% in just 10 years. So looking at G+ in perspective, it's a pretty small "straw" to break the camel's back. As I said, my main objection, it isn't expensive enough.

You keep ignoring 1 fact- there is no longer a free fastpass option for any attraction in any of the parks at WDW. To a family that utilized FP to the fullest, and would like to do it again it means purchasing G+ and the extra LL for every day of their trips they will be in the park.
I gave you the range in which it could cost my family using it the way it would be most beneficial for the way we do the parks. Yes I know that because I know my family, and you don't.
That was according to the price points in Disney's own announcement so if you think my math is exaggerated then you actually believe that Disney's price point for a family is too high.

For my family the added cost of G+ combined with the added cost for other benefits that used to be free means that a vacation to WDW no longer holds value to us.
I'm not here to tell you that it doesn't hold value for you anymore so I'm not sure why you think you have to somehow convince me it does for me. You don't get to decide what isn't a big enough straw for someone else.

 

[havoc315]

You keep ignoring 1 fact- there is no longer a free fastpass option for any attraction in any of the parks at WDW. To a family that utilized FP to the fullest, and would like to do it again it means purchasing G+ and the extra LL for every day of their trips they will be in the park.
I gave you the range in which it could cost my family using it the way it would be most beneficial for the way we do the parks. That was according to the price points in Disney's own announcement so if you think my math is exaggerated then you actually believe that Disney's price point for a family is too high.

For my family the added cost of G+ combined with the added cost for other benefits that used to be free means that a vacation to WDW no longer holds value to us.
I'm not here to tell you that it doesn't hold value for you anymore so I'm not sure why you think you have to somehow convince me it does for me. You don't get to decide what isn't a big enough straw for someone else.

There actually are still free FPs for ROTR and the Rat. They are called boarding groups.

You’re right — I don’t get you decide what is the “final straw” for other people. But I can certainly point out that it’s a pretty medium-sized straw compared to all the other straws.
Like I said — I really like G+ prospectively, my only objection is it’s too cheap. Should run more like Universal Express Pass - $100-$300 per person per day, inclusive of the LL attractions.

But I’d be much more upset over the massive increases in prices of dining, the elimination of DME, the reduction in entertainment and shows, the reduction in regular night time hours. The fact that Animal Kingdom closes no later than 7-8pm is a much bigger negative value than G+.

 

[NickC]

But I’d be much more upset over the massive increases in prices of dining, the elimination of DME, the reduction in entertainment and shows, the reduction in regular night time hours. The fact that Animal Kingdom closes no later than 7-8pm is a much bigger negative value than G+.

This is part of the reason that I'm skeptical. If someone gave me 10 bad stock tips, I'd do a lot of research on their 11th pick, even if it looked like a winner. (Well, if I played the stock market.)
It seems like a pretty decent system, and while it will add cost to my trip, it's priced lower than I thought it would be. But a lot of the recent management decisions have lessened the experience. I really want you to be right on this one, but I'm going to hold off on booking until I hear reports.

 

[havoc315]

This is part of the reason that I'm skeptical. If someone gave me 10 bad stock tips, I'd do a lot of research on their 11th pick, even if it looked like a winner. (Well, if I played the stock market.)
It seems like a pretty decent system, and while it will add cost to my trip, it's priced lower than I thought it would be. But a lot of the recent management decisions have lessened the experience. I really want you to be right on this one, but I'm going to hold off on booking until I hear reports.

That makes sense.

 

[NavyDad]

1 -- The scale and volume of Magic Kingdom is indeed very similar to DL. The scale and volume of DCA is very similar to Epcot or DHS or AK.
2-- Agreed, and we can look at the past and other parks to start to develop the best tips and strategies. Which will need to be fine tuned once the system is actually put into place.

1. It's way more complicated than that.

Roughly 60 million people visit WDW per year versus around 25 mil that visit the DL resort parks. WDW has roughly 40,000 hotel rooms onsite with dedicated transportation to and from the parks. The average length of stay at WDW is roughly 4 times the number of days than at DL. WDW has a much higher percentage of guests who are first time visitors and will only visit once in a lifetime. DL has a much higher percentage of visitors who are "local" passholders who have a much higher visitation rate. The Florida parks have a much different visitor to attraction capacity ratio.

As a Disney shareholder I have listened to way too many shareholder calls over the last 10 years. I have listened to many long, boring presentations about how different the FL parks are from the CA parks and the overseas parks and why they have to use completely different operating procedures in order to get a similar revenue per visitor number.

Assuming a system or a strategy will work the same way at WDW as it does in DL or the stand alone parks is a huge mistake.

The key to exploiting the new system is to look at how it's constructed (what we know so far) and then looking at the specific intricacies of WDW and look for opportunities. Some examples of the past:

AK used to close early and essentially be a half day park. You used to be able to make FP+ for a second park, hit AK at rope drop to stay ahead of the crowds and ride everything you wanted to ride and then hop to another park in the afternoon and have FP ready to go.

In the old paper FP days, you could take turn being a runner, take everyone's hard tickets and literally run around the park getting paper FP's for everyone in your group while they rode a ride or did something else.

Not too long ago, on days where MK had EMH, it would act as a massive crowd magnet. On those days you could visit almost any other park and the crowds would be super light and then visit MK the day after they just had EMH.

The question is what do we know now about this system WDW is implementing? How can we use our vast shared knowledge of WDW to find opportunities for advantage? Some of this will take trial and error and we will have to keep on top of things as they are implemented and Disney tweaks the system.

The last thing I will say in this thread is that you are absolutely wasting your time arguing with many of these people. Some of them have literally been on here for 10 years complaining about the implementation of many of the things they are now complaining about losing. You are never going to convince them to be positive this or any of the changes Disney is likely to make in our lifetimes. It's just a complete waste of time. You can however, become an expert at the new system and how it works at WDW and help a LOT of people who come to this board looking for tips and advice. I can't tell you how many people I have seen come here since 2009 and get a lot of help navigating their WDW vacations and get immense value from the tips they learn on this board. Ignore the complainers and focus on those who to learn and share tips on how to make WDW vacations better.

 

[Jennx36]

I know I'm probably one of the outliers here, but I am ok with the option to pay extra to be able to spend less time in a que. I visit just once a year, and I've been coming to WDW just about every year for the past decade. So far, the best experience I've had at WDW was when they had an offer to pay an extra $50 per person per night for six fast passes, a limited capacity, prime viewing area for the nighttime fireworks, and the ability to book your fast passes 90 days in advance. You had to be staying four or more nights at a deluxe resort in a club level room, and you had to pay in advance for I think three of the days you are there, meaning you couldn't just pay $50 per person for one day of extra fast passes, you had to pony up a minimum of $150 per person. We paid the money, and in return, we got to see and do all the things we wanted with little to no wait. We had a beautiful hotel room (stayed club level at the Poly), and we had a wonderful experience at the pool each day as we were pretty much done in the parks by the afternoon. It was a really nice and memorable vacation!

Juxtapose that with one of my worst experiences at WDW. Last year when we visited in October, there were no fast passes, several restaurants were closed, lines to get anything (snacks, merchandise, pictures) were crazy, and the heat in October was almost as bad as the middle of summer (almost). Kids were hot and tired, adults were hot and hangry, and the night ended early when I could tell my husband was done. I read ahead of time about so many people that said they enjoyed the parks even more without Fastpass+. "The lines look long", they said, "but they move fast". This was not my experience, and for the first time, I really started to think twice about when my family would return to WDW with no fast passes.

I would gladly trade a couple hundred dollars to have an experience close to the first one I described. Genie+ will not guarantee that same experience, but at least it provides an option for me to trade money for time and do more of the things I'd like to do the one time a year I get to visit the parks.

 

[havoc315]

1. It's way more complicated than that.

Roughly 60 million people visit WDW per year versus around 25 mil that visit the DL resort parks. WDW has roughly 40,000 hotel rooms onsite with dedicated transportation to and from the parks. The average length of stay at WDW is roughly 4 times the number of days than at DL. WDW has a much higher percentage of guests who are first time visitors and will only visit once in a lifetime. DL has a much higher percentage of visitors who are "local" passholders who have a much higher visitation rate. The Florida parks have a much different visitor to attraction capacity ratio.

As a Disney shareholder I have listened to way too many shareholder calls over the last 10 years. I have listened to many long, boring presentations about how different the FL parks are from the CA parks and the overseas parks and why they have to use completely different operating procedures in order to get a similar revenue per visitor number.

Assuming a system or a strategy will work the same way at WDW as it does in DL or the stand alone parks is a huge mistake.

The key to exploiting the new system is to look at how it's constructed (what we know so far) and then looking at the specific intricacies of WDW and look for opportunities. Some examples of the past:

AK used to close early and essentially be a half day park. You used to be able to make FP+ for a second park, hit AK at rope drop to stay ahead of the crowds and ride everything you wanted to ride and then hop to another park in the afternoon and have FP ready to go.

In the old paper FP days, you could take turn being a runner, take everyone's hard tickets and literally run around the park getting paper FP's for everyone in your group while they rode a ride or did something else.

Not too long ago, on days where MK had EMH, it would act as a massive crowd magnet. On those days you could visit almost any other park and the crowds would be super light and then visit MK the day after they just had EMH.

The question is what do we know now about this system WDW is implementing? How can we use our vast shared knowledge of WDW to find opportunities for advantage? Some of this will take trial and error and we will have to keep on top of things as they are implemented and Disney tweaks the system.

The last thing I will say in this thread is that you are absolutely wasting your time arguing with many of these people. Some of them have literally been on here for 10 years complaining about the implementation of many of the things they are now complaining about losing. You are never going to convince them to be positive this or any of the changes Disney is likely to make in our lifetimes. It's just a complete waste of time. You can however, become an expert at the new system and how it works at WDW and help a LOT of people who come to this board looking for tips and advice. I can't tell you how many people I have seen come here since 2009 and get a lot of help navigating their WDW vacations and get immense value from the tips they learn on this board. Ignore the complainers and focus on those who to learn and share tips on how to make WDW vacations better.

Some excellent points. Though I would indeed look to learn from history -- 10 years ago, both DL and WDW used the same fastpass system, to similar effect. (I've heard that the plan was to eventually roll out FP+ at DL and other parks, but it was such a disaster at WDW that they scrapped the plans). Even now, boarding groups to ROTR works similarly in the 2 locations.
With that bit of history in the books, I don't think it's crazy to think that G+ may indeed perform similarly across the parks.

I nod in complete agreement with your last couple of paragraphs. There is an element willing to jump on any and every change when some -- maybe even many -- of the changes may potentially be positive.
Sharing my own personal history -- I was excited for FP+ when it was announced but it quickly became something very different than I envisioned. I envisioned that it would be a continuation of paper FPs in a digital form, with the option to book fastpasses up to 60 days ahead. What I naively didn't realize in hindsight was that it wasn't going to be an option to book FPs 60 days ahead but would become a requirement. I wrongly assumed that 90% of guests wouldn't bother booking their fastpasses until they got to the park, that some wouldn't even use the system. I never envisioned that there would be rides fully booked up more than 60 days in advance.

While I can appreciate there may be some people who enjoy getting on their computer 60 days before their vacation in the early morning, and mapping out their entire day... I strongly believe that most people would prefer more flexibility and spontaneity.
Maybe I'm wrong about how G+/LL will work, just as I was wrong about FP+. Maybe half the attractions will be fully booked by 7:01 am, in which case it will have the same drawbacks as FP+. But with a cost limiting the use of G+ and the ability to purchase only 1 G+ pass at a time, I'm hopeful that it will be a far superior system. And I know people don't want to hear it -- But if passes do disappear too quickly, the solution is to increase the prices of LL/G+.
Disney attractions ultimately have limited capacity. No FP/G+ system magically can create more capacity. So the benefit of F+ was purely illusory -- by promising every single guest at least 3 FPs, you created the illusion of line skipping on some attractions, but you were paying this back in lots of other ways. G+/LL works better the fewer people that use it, in which case it can provide a real benefit, not just illusory.
And someone with an unlimited budget may purchase G+ every day even if all the rides are already walk-on, giving them virtually no benefit. While others may purchase G+ more judiciously, estimating how much time it will save them and then deciding whether it's worth it. Finding maybe it's not worth it on Animal Kingdom day where it will only add up to 30 minutes less in line at 4-5 attractions total, but finding it is worthwhile when doing a full day at Magic Kingdom on a crowded day where it may save you 2-3 hours in line.

 

[ThistleMae]

So far I'm thinking utilizing the 30 min. morning EMH. Boarding passes for ROTR and the Rat. Trying for 7DMT and FOP at night at park closing and possibly paying for LL$ if this plan doesn't work out. Not sure I'll purchase Genie+ other than maybe for MK but will look at it on a day to day basis depending on how my plan goes. The other thing I have to watch for is the nights of the Christmas Party and the nights for the EMH for Deluxe folks. As it turns out the week I'm there in December there is either a Christmas Party or EMH nighttime hours every single night of my trip, so trying to figure out what to avoid and when has gotten even more complicated. This is why I'm already brainstorming before all the elements of Genie + even come out. At first I was upset losing FP+ but I'm slowly adjusting to the new reality.

 

[Sinder]

There actually are still free FPs for ROTR and the Rat. They are called boarding groups.

You’re right — I don’t get you decide what is the “final straw” for other people. But I can certainly point out that it’s a pretty medium-sized straw compared to all the other straws.
Like I said — I really like G+ prospectively, my only objection is it’s too cheap. Should run more like Universal Express Pass - $100-$300 per person per day, inclusive of the LL attractions.

But I’d be much more upset over the massive increases in prices of dining, the elimination of DME, the reduction in entertainment and shows, the reduction in regular night time hours. The fact that Animal Kingdom closes no later than 7-8pm is a much bigger negative value than G+.

Ok, yes boarding groups if you are lucky enough to get one. I was there 2 weeks ago, when crowds weren't even crazy high. Got on right at 7AM with my dd, got a boarding group for 3 out of the 5 of us because 2 in my party weren't automatically checked when we all popped up. By the time I checked the 2 names boarding groups were gone. It was 7:01. We missed the opportunity at 1:00 to try again.
Maybe we could have gotten one, but that was still during a time when they were gone in seconds and judging by how crowded GE was it probably was not going to happen.


Responding to the bolded, this is completely subjective, and depends on many factors like how many people in a party, how many vacation days you spend and what attractions are on your must do list. What you look for in a WDW vacation- for us it's riding the attractions and not spending a majority of our park time in lines for them.
Can it be a medium straw for some- yes of course but for some it's bigger. For some, like me, it's the last one. It's a combination of those things you mentioned, plus others, and the added fee needed to now avoid SB lines.
I have no idea why you have such tunnel vision about how Genie+ will effect other people's budget and vacation. You are free to be upset or not be over whatever you want, but you don't seem to grasp is that you don't get to tell others why they shouldn't be upset at something that effects them.

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

The last thing I will say in this thread is that you are absolutely wasting your time arguing with many of these people. Some of them have literally been on here for 10 years complaining about the implementation of many of the things they are now complaining about losing.

 

[havoc315]

Ok, yes boarding groups if you are lucky enough to get one.

And under FP+, if it was FP+ "if you are lucky enough to get one."
Last Disney trip pre-pandemic, I got up at 6am 60 days in advance to get a FOP FP... they were all gone.
On my AK day, I kept hitting refesh on the app, no FOP FPs.

So yes, this is the problem with any type of free FP system, whether free FP+ or free boarding groups.. when they are free, they disappear quickly. So you need to be "lucky enough" under FP+ and under boarding groups.

Responding to the bolded, this is completely subjective, and depends on many factors like how many people in a party, how many vacation days you spend and what attractions are on your must do list.

Cost is completely objective. Of course there is an objective range based on those factors. But the cost is an objective factor.
Nobody can claim that under FP+, the cost of their vacation was $250, and under G+, it will now be $10,000 -- Cost is objective, if someone claimed that G+ would increase the price of their trip by 800%, that would be a lie.

The value of line skipping -- that's subjective. For 1 person, it might be worth $15 to skip 5-minute lines at 3 attractions, so $15 to save 15 minutes.
For another person, even if they would save 3 hours, 3 hours wouldn't be worth $15. (personally, the most I ever saved under FP+ was about 60-90 minutes total in a day).

The beauty of G+ is that the cost is objective and known, and each person can subjectively determine whether it's worthwhile.
And if it's not worth it to you to skip some lines for $15, or to purchase a LL line skip for $10-25, then don't buy it. Vote with your wallet.

 

[havoc315]

Ok, yes boarding groups if you are lucky enough to get one. I was there 2 weeks ago, when crowds weren't even crazy high. Got on right at 7AM with my dd, got a boarding group for 3 out of the 5 of us because 2 in my party weren't automatically checked when we all popped up. By the time I checked the 2 names boarding groups were gone. It was 7:01. We missed the opportunity at 1:00 to try again.
Maybe we could have gotten one, but that was still during a time when they were gone in seconds and judging by how crowded GE was it probably was not going to happen.


Responding to the bolded, this is completely subjective, and depends on many factors like how many people in a party, how many vacation days you spend and what attractions are on your must do list. What you look for in a WDW vacation- for us it's riding the attractions and not spending a majority of our park time in lines for them.
Can it be a medium straw for some- yes of course but for some it's bigger. For some, like me, it's the last one. It's a combination of those things you mentioned, plus others, and the added fee needed to now avoid SB lines.
I have no idea why you have such tunnel vision about how Genie+ will effect other people's budget and vacation. You are free to be upset or not be over whatever you want, but you don't seem to grasp is that you don't get to tell others why they shouldn't be upset at something that effects them.

By the way.. I was literally there 2 weeks ago. 8/15, 8/17 and 8/21 at DHS… Rode ROTR 3 times..
You claim you were locked out of BGs to ROTR? On 8/15… and multiple days that week, BGs were available until past 6pm.

Obviously there will be fewer free BGs when they start selling LL’s.
But if free BGs can remain available to Disney’s most popular ride into the late evening, even during low crowds, it gives me great confidence that ride slots will remain available into late evening for less popular rides when they aren’t free.

 

[CLocey]

I'm shocked at the negative feedback and backlash about the Genie+ announcement. Seems it's pure apprehension about change.
Too many people, I believe, I erroneously viewing this as now having to pay $15 per day for FP+, and having to book every morning at 7am, instead of 60 days in advance.
But this is NOT FP+. It should end up being a superior product. And for most attractions, there should be plenty of availability through the day. You would only be booking at 7am, if you want a 9am return time.

I am responding with any anger or frustration at the poster - but I have a perspective on the question that I have not noticed anyone share yet - and so do so to share why this is such a big deal for some and, honestly, to vent a little at Disney...

With the replacement of the Fastpass system, it is now impossible for me to know if my children can have a happy day at any Disney World park. And that crushes me. It just makes my heart hurt and makes me fear ever going to the parks again lest I have to see the disappointment in their faces after all of the work and cost and sacrificing that goes onto a trip. I have seven people in my family, including four children, ages 4 - 12. The 4 kids can't all go on the same rides all the time, due to height requirements and different anxiety levels. Each kid also has 2-3 "must dos" at each park - rides that they wait 3 years (the time between our DW trips) to be able to go on. Some are the same for some kids, but at most parks it is about 8 rides that the family HAS to do. Despite having three adults, we cannot split up the kids because one of the adults can't be relied upon and the younger kids have severe fear/anxiety issues that make them need their mom and dad to ride with them on many rides, plus none of the adults want to miss seeing the joy on the faces of any of the kids, and sharing the experiences with them - that is why we go as a family. So, our family generally HAS to do 7-8 specific rides each day in the parks, and always some of those rides are the most popular rides in the parks - the ones that will not be served by Genie+ alone. And, because the youngest ones are usually wiped out after lunch, our days have to end at 2pm or so, usually.

So, how can you possibly ride the 3 mountains, 7 dwarfs, Speedway, Buzz Lightyear, Dumbo, Barnstormer and the carousel [I can't explain my kids...] (and eat lunch) before 2pm? The ONLY way we could do it was to choose a slow time in the parks, stay on property, get the 3 Fastpasses asap, and pay for Touringplans access to get the data on exact wait times at every ride, every minute of the day, calculate the family's average walking speed, estimate the number and time of bathroom/snack/lunch breaks, and then create a minute-by-minute optimized plan using the three known fastpasses and times to walk between rides and wait in each queue. And then stick to it.

There is not enough time to ride the necessary rides without using fastpasses/lightning lanes. If I use lightning lanes, there is no way to plan a damn thing, because I have no idea beforehand what rides I will be able to get lightning lanes for, or when those access times will be. And it certainly won't be possible to do without using maximum Individual Attraction Selections every day - those are the rides with the longest lines. There is no way we can ride what the kids want to ride and spend 4 hours in standby lines for two rides.

And that is before considering the costs - Genie+ for 7 people for 6 days in the parks is $630. Let's guess each IAS will be $15 per person, per ride, per day, that is another $1,050. Add the two together, and that is an additional $1,680 for my family to be able to do what we used to be able to do for free - and to do it in a way that is not remotely as helpful. It is a way that will leave me in crippling anxiety every day wondering if we will be able to get the lightning lanes and IASs we need, when we need them, and then to (somehow, by some miracle) be able to accomplish without planning at all what used to take months of precision planning.

And, on top of this, I now have to rent a van for my trip for another $1,200 because Disney Express has been taken away and our family is too big, and needs too many car seats, to economically use Mears Connect or rideshare.

I now have to decide whether I disappoint my children now by telling them that we are not going back to Disney World for the foreseeable future, and save the $15,000 on the next trip, or do I spend the $15,000 and have them disappointed and upset while we are at Disney because they missed out on the ride(s) they had been waiting years for and one or more of their siblings got to ride on the rides they wanted (before our time in the parks ran out).

I am furious with Disney because I I trusted them enough to give my children a love for the parks over the last 12 years, and created an expectation in them, and now I have to disappoint them because of the company's unbridled greed. I have never taken my kids to Universal, and I never planned to do so beyond one trip to see Harry Potter stuff when they were older, if they wanted. Maybe now I have to try to see if I can replace their feelings for Disney World with Universal.

If and when I ever go back to DW, if this system is still in place, I certainly will not be staying on property as it is now an unjustifiable expense without Magical Express, without free parking, without EMH, and without the early Fastpass and ADR window (oh - and monorails that have broken down every single time I have stayed at a monorail resort). I have to make up all of these additional costs somewhere.

So disappointing.