Enough's Enough: Bond's Should Be Banned

[Peter Pirate]

What is wrong with Major League Baseball? They have kept Pete Rose out of the Hall Of Fame for gambling (and he's retired) but refuse to act seriously on the steroid issue.

A new book is out detailing Bonds involvement, using 200+ sources (unamed, I know) that carefully outline his use and his numbers. He should be booted or at the very least told that an asterisk(*) will forever be beside any record he holds. The same should be added to McGuire and Sosa if proof is overwhelming.

I am so tired of the widespread cheating in the name of doing 'whatever it takes' to win, that is a cancer in sports today.

If you cheat to win IMO you don't really win and I like to think that what goes around comes around...So when's it coming?

{edited to keep on a single topic}

 

[nliedel]

The problem is that steriod use was not against the rules until 2002 and all the reports of his use came in the years prior to that. Do I think it's horrible and cheating? Yes. Do I think that people should be smart enough, without rules, to not use drugs to get an advantage? yes again. Can you punish someone for breaking a rule that was not even there? No.

 

[jgmklmhem]

The problem is that steriod use was not against the rules until 2002 and all the reports of his use came in the years prior to that. Do I think it's horrible and cheating? Yes. Do I think that people should be smart enough, without rules, to not use drugs to get an advantage? yes again. Can you punish someone for breaking a rule that was not even there? No.

Actually it was against the rules since I believe some time in the early 90's. This was mentioned in the online chat with someone related to the book coming out yesterday on ESPN. The problem was that it was not tested for and punished. The rule was there but no enforcement.

 

[Bob Slydell]

Actually it was against the rules since I believe some time in the early 90's. This was mentioned in the online chat with someone related to the book coming out yesterday on ESPN. The problem was that it was not tested for and punished. The rule was there but no enforcement.

There is the actual problem -- since they didn't do any testing back in the years that Bonds is being implicated in, there's no concrete proof that he actually was using steroids. There's not a whole lot of people out there who don't believe he wasn't on the juice during that stretch of time, but without proof other than a bunch of people's statements, short of an admission from Bonds that he used steroids, there really can't be anything done at this point.

 

[jgmklmhem]

There is the actual problem -- since they didn't do any testing back in the years that Bonds is being implicated in, there's no concrete proof that he actually was using steroids. There's not a whole lot of people out there who don't believe he wasn't on the juice during that stretch of time, but without proof other than a bunch of people's statements, short of an admission from Bonds that he used steroids, there really can't be anything done at this point.

I don't know the paper trail in this book seems to be pretty damning evidence. From what I have read the evidence from legal testimonies and such would be enough to put murderers in jail but not enough for us to believe Bonds guilt. He will never admit it...but neither do most murderers. He of course has legal immunity. At this point it is more than just innuendo and suspicion. I agree nothing can be really done.

 

[cardaway]

The real sucky part will be if he breaks Aaron's home run record.

It would be great if the fanfare was limited to the usual cheers for another run scored but they'll likely celebrate and pretend he's a great guy.

 

[bicker]

And of course, there is all that silliness about actually having to have real proof of accusations before lynching people.

 

[Bob Slydell]

It would be great if the fanfare was limited to the usual cheers for another run scored but they'll likely celebrate and pretend he's a great guy.

It'll have to be one heck of an acting job by a lot of people, though. Not saying that MLB won't put on the show and all, but it sounds like you'd be hard pressed to find a handful of people inside baseball that even like the guy anymore.

 

[nliedel]

I have a friend, a woman for all you "women don't know Baseball" types who is an expert in Baseball, specifially the Cubs (hope springs eternal) and I e-mailed her this morning to ask her if I was right. Please note while I am not a font of info on this subject she is and you can look it up. This is what she wrote me:

"You are correct. Steroid use in baseball withouth a prescription was banned after the 2002 season. Some steroids were banned in the '90s I believe, but not all. All you have to do is remember the trials where Mark McGwire took the 5th and Sosa pretended he didn't know English. What they were using was legal when they were using them, but not when the trials came up."

While you cannot trust everything you read on the internet I would put her knowledge of Baseball up against my Grandmothers in her day, and that is saying a lot (died on Derby Day listening to the Tigers. Just like she predicted 8 years earlier!)

 

[Holly]

Isn't that book just hearsay? People can write anything.
Unless an official investigation by MLB concludes that he has used when it was illegal, I don't think he should be banned.

 

[Tigger_Magic]

What bicker said...

 

[Toby'sFriend]

Isn't that book just hearsay? People can write anything.

I haven't read the book yet, but from what I've heard reported the Author had access to the Balco Investigation evidence including official logs from the Lab detailing exactly which steroids where being injected and the exact dates which he received them.

I agree --- ban him and erase their records. As somebody else said, Pete Rose was banned from baseball over gambling....that is much less disgusting than steroid use IMHO. MLB can do whatever it wants as long as it doesn't violate their Union Agreement with the Players Association. It is a terrible for the sport, for the players, and for all the fans of baseball to allow this farce to continue.

I feel the same way about Sammy Sosa and Mark MacGwire, if somebody could come up with sufficient evidence to show that they are cheating, take away their records.

 

[Bravosntha2g]

The backlash against Bonds in this country has almost lead me to believe one thing, it's all due to racism.

Barry Bonds was a GREAT and I mean GREAT player before he was alleged to have begun using steroids. At the pace he was hitting HRs before he "began" juicing, he would be at over 600 home runs right now, and still end up in the top five of all time in that category without roids. He won three MVPs before anyone believes he ever used steroids. He won gold gloves and stole tons of bases.

Last year he was surely tested for steroids, and obviously was clean. When he played last year, he still hit home runs at an incredible pace.

But you have everyone on a witch hunt to get Barry.

There is no concrete evidence, but I am willing to assume he used steroids. That makes him no different from the vast majority of sluggers in the 90s and early 00s.

Bonds however is different from Sosa and Big Mac, in that he was a great player without them, and put up great all around numbers.

Sosa all he ever did was hit HRs, he never hit for high averages, or got many singles. As soon as steroid testing goes into effect, he absolutely becomes one of the worst hitting OFers in baseball.

Mark McGuire was the same way as Sosa. If not for his HRs, he's not close to a hall of famer. If you are going to convict Bonds, then you HAVE to do the same for Big Mac. Big Mac hits 70 HRs and then three years later he's retired? Give me a break.

Why would you ban Bonds, but not extend that ban to any other slugger of that era? It's absolutely ludicrous.

Barry has close to 3,000 hits, 700+ HRs, 500+ stolen bases, almost 2,000 RBIs, 6 MVPs, and to make that more impressive, the most walks in the history of baseball.

He was on pace to be one of the greatest of all time before anyone thinks he ever started messing with any substances, and he at worst just did the same thing as everyone else during that era. The same cannot be said for McGuire and Sosa, who do not belong in the Hall of Fame with the great Mr. Bonds.

 

[nliedel]

I would be bothered by alleged steriod use if the user was purple with pink spots. I am horrified by Sosa possibly using and MgWire etc. They aren't of African descent (I may be wrong about Sammy Sosa. I think he is 100% Hispanic but I don't really look at race too much). Since it was not against the rules then and no one can prove anything one way or the other it should probably be left alone. All we can do now is move forward and try to keep the tests ahead of the cheats.

 

[Bob Slydell]

The backlash against Bonds in this country has almost lead me to believe one thing, it's all due to racism.

 

[POB14]

I agree --- ban him and erase their records. As somebody else said, Pete Rose was banned from baseball over gambling....that is much less disgusting than steroid use IMHO.

I agree 100% that Barry Bonds is a sleazeball, a drug abuser, and I'll throw in racist for good measure.

However, none of those things get you banned from baseball. Breaking the rules gets you banned from baseball. Not only that, but only breaking very specific rules gets you banned. The current policy for steroid use is a 50-game suspension for a first offense, up to a lifetime ban for a third offense. And that only went into effect in November.

Look at it this way: A lifetime ban from baseball is like going to jail. You don't go to jail for being a slimebucket, you go to jail for breaking the rules (the laws). Larry Flynt (for example) might be the biggest jerk on the planet, but you don't go to jail for that. You do go to jail for breaking into somebody's house and stealing their stereo, even if you're otherwise the nicest guy in the world and take in homeless dogs.

It hurts me to say this, because Bonds' dad was one of my favorite players, and I always thought Barry got a raw deal from the media. But it's true; he belongs in the Hall of Fame about as much as my cat does, and I don't even have a cat. However, it will be up to the voters to use the Hall's rules to keep him out (remember, the Hall is NOT part of MLB):

Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.

 

[Bravosntha2g]

You may laugh but no one cares that Big Mac was juiced. America does not view Sammy Sosa with the same disdain that they would if he were African American.

Bonds is somehow held to a different standard, and I can't figure out why.

Let's face it guys, every slugger of that era was juiced. Even pitchers were.

Bonds was GREAT before steroids, he would still be among the all-time greats without them. Others like Sosa and Big Mac just suck without power numbers. Bonds is on another level, he's the greatest living baseball player in the world.

 

[Bob Slydell]

You may laugh but no one cares that Big Mac was juiced. America does not view Sammy Sosa with the same disdain that they would if he were African American.

Bonds is somehow held to a different standard, and I can't figure out why.

Let's face it guys, every slugger of that era was juiced. Even pitchers were.

Bonds was GREAT before steroids, he would still be among the all-time greats without them. Others like Sosa and Big Mac just suck without power numbers. Bonds is on another level, he's the greatest living baseball player in the world.

People would (and already do) care if McGuire and/or Sosa juiced. Sosa's been catching all kinds of grief for the past few years -- and a lot of that was just over his corked bat.

Bonds catches more grief than others for two reasons -- 1. he's the greatest living baseball player in the world (I don't think he is, but for argument sake, might as well run with it) and 2. he's a dickhead.

 

[pixiemomma]

Maybe not race but there is something very personally vindictive about the way the media treats Barry Bonds. There would be nowhere near the amount of media coverage if he had a good working relationship with the media and that awshucks cornfed attitude that America loves.

 

[diznygirl]

I agree with #2, Bob Slydell. (although I was actually trying to find a nicer way to say it!)

Sure, Barry Bonds was a great player without the 'roids. That just what makes it more pathetic. And if he's such a great guy, where's the proof of that? This is a monster of Bonds' making - I have no sympathy for him.