EMH being axed????

[lockedoutlogic]

On one hand, I would be disappointed if they are gone. It's not merely about being able to ride the rides a little bit longer, it's also about simply being able to stay inside a little longer. Getting inside an hour early just makes the place all the more fun.

On the other hand, with the evening EMH, the time I was able to use these, the places were dead. Yeah, it was a perk being able to get onto rides as easily as the FP line, but the crowds were so thin, the parks felt closed. When in the MK I felt like I was staying inside the park after being told to leave and EPCOT left me feeling like I was wandering back alleys alone in a strange city. I found myself second-guessing whether I had the right park on the right night.

Based on my 2009 trip, I could certainly see them removing the evening hours. But the morning hours should stay.

Lol...
This is a great description of what EMH nights often end up like.
Perfect descriptions...well done...and EXACTLY why Disney will look to phase them out.

Nothing is new to me at the WDW parks, and I know them (guest and service areas) almost like the back of my hand...but even I sometimes feel out of place in the parks late.

I don't want to shop...I don't want to eat...and that really makes it a loss for the management to have them open.

I think very few people agree to pay the overpriced Disney rack rates to get the EMHs...because then they bludgeon you for tickets to get in on top.

$3000-$5000 for a week (room and passes for a family of 4) for a hour a day somewhere when there are 25,000 rooms filled with people with the same idea? Doesn't really add up.

I just think EMH's "seismic" effects are being overstated.

People book Disney hotels because:

1. No matter what any outside hotel says - it is a lot more difficult to access The property from the outside and you loose More valuable vacation time each day to do it.
2. Generally speaking, Disney still offers a higher overall quality level and uniform theme than outside chains. Though they have been better and there is room for improvement.
3. Many if not most are repeats...which means they are creatures of habit. They like the disneyness of the hotels...it adds
To their perception and memories.

So a premium is paid. There are other reasons, of course, but objectively those are the root reasons at the end of the day.

Not EMH, package delivery, or refillable mugs. (But I like all those things)

Magical express...the case can be made...is far
More responsible for bookings now than EMH.

That used to mean a rental car...without it, probably a 200-300 dollar average savings for the week. Real convenience and real money back in the pocket.

 

[peyjax]

"Guest services" show up, punch a clock, and then leave and deal with the realities of their employment and the problems it brings...like every other rank and file WDW employee.

They are not "specialized" nor trained in any elaborate manner. In most cases they just gravitate to that type of job.

They do not have prior access to policy changes, strategic changes, or any "classified" information.

In most cases they simply have limited access to the central computer system and that yields nothing unique.

So the "snarky" criticisms of criticism...while unnecessary, are somewhat understandable when the same problem occurs over an over again.



And that problem is "I called up an 800 number and somebody told me...because they KNOW"

No...they don't...never did, never will.

Typically the public knows first. WDW is a multibillion dollar annual revenue generator for a huge corporation. They do not want 55,000 generally low trained foot soldiers running around with non-disclosed information that could affect that business.
So the simple, easy, effective policy is to tell them nothing of value.

The "snark"...at least for me...sometimes comes from having to be repetitive on this FACT to the point of mental exhaustion.
I guess the best policy is to ignore it...but it becomes difficult when you see people buying in and setting themselves up for disappointment on an almost daily basis. Sometimes even snarkers care and mean well.

Thank you! Obviously you were saying what I was trying to but I guess did not say so well. I really did not mean to be mean but did not respond to PP as I did not want to start a fight.

Like you said it is frustrating to see people set themselves up for disappointment when time and time again you see it or have experienced it yourself. Most of us just share what we have learned and do so with good intentions. Personally I have learned mass amounts of Disney "street smarts" on the DIS!

I do hope that it is not canceled and the PP gets to have EMH as we always enjoyed having it but it does seem Disney is changing so much these days that I would not be surprised if it goes away soon.

 

[Mom2six]

Lol...
This is a great description of what EMH nights often end up like.
Perfect descriptions...well done...and EXACTLY why Disney will look to phase them out.

Nothing is new to me at the WDW parks, and I know them (guest and service areas) almost like the back of my hand...but even I sometimes feel out of place in the parks late.

I don't want to shop...I don't want to eat...and that really makes it a loss for the management to have them open.

I think very few people agree to pay the overpriced Disney rack rates to get the EMHs...because then they bludgeon you for tickets to get in on top.
.....

Not EMH, package delivery, or refillable mugs. (But I like all those things)

Magical express...the case can be made...is far
More responsible for bookings now than EMH.

That used to mean a rental car...without it, probably a 200-300 dollar average savings for the week. Real convenience and real money back in the pocket.

EMH and the refillable mugs played a part in our decision to stay at a Disney resort on our next trip rather than off site. We really enjoy going to MK's EMH - usually the day we arrive they have them. Getting 8 hours versus 5 or 6 makes it worth going that day. We also usually end up going to AK during the day that Epcot has EMH, resting late afternoon at the pool and going to Epcot around 6 or 7. If they closed at 9 that night, it would not be worth it.

Also , I love the refillable mugs. With 4 teens there is a lot of bickering while I am getting the 2 younger kids ready, so I use the mugs as an easy way to get a couple of them out the door - why don't you go fill the mugs. Which then also involves a stop to pin trade.

So the mugs and EMH make a difference to me. We drive so don't use ME. I never use the package delivery either, though I should.

 

[mcd2745]

Everyone can rank the different "perks" in terms of importance to them and their families.

For me and my family, EMH and refillable mugs would be lower on the list with ME and Disney Transportation as a whole at the top.

I don't want to deal with a rental car. And as lockedoutlogic said, access to the parks is simply easier staying on site and i agree you lose lots of valuable time. On one of our trips a while back, we rented a car for a few days in the middle of our stay to go visit family on the Gulf coast one day and also go to Sea World and Universal. The day we went to Universal, they closed at 5pm for some reason (we weren't happy about that), so since it was still early we went straight to MK. I found it quite the hassle to park, ride a tram to the TTC and then ferry over to MK - particularly when compared to being dropped off right in front of the gate.

I also like the package delivery perk. We don't buy too much, but I like knowing if we see something we really want, we can just buy it and send it to the resort. Otherwise, (and this is where it helps their bottom line as well) since we don't want to carry the stuff around, we'd probably say that we'll go back at the end of the day to pick it up and it would likely be 50/50 at best that we do end up buying whatever it is.

I think I said earlier in this thread that we usually avoid the evening EMH park - and that it's hard to get a handle on whether or not they are worth it since posts here are very conflicting as far as the crowds at evening EMH. So that's not a perk that would drive us offsite if it were gone.

Bottom line, they need to keep collection of these different perks in place, as no one perk will appeal to everyone.

 

[Cogswel_Cogs]

Lol...
Magical express...the case can be made...is far
More responsible for bookings now than EMH.

That used to mean a rental car...without it, probably a 200-300 dollar average savings for the week. Real convenience and real money back in the pocket.

I think you are wrong,
Magical express only accounts for half the attendees at best because not all fly.

I think if they were not to give inside park perk to attendees it would kill them. I really think they would have to shut one hotel from each price type.
Only my oppinion but most people I know always talk of it as the best perk, especially the new people going for the first time. You need those new people comming in to maintain your return customer level as some people bow out (kids get old etc.)

 

[ChipnDale79]

Lol...



People book Disney hotels because:

1. No matter what any outside hotel says - it is a lot more difficult to access The property from the outside and you loose More valuable vacation time each day to do it.
2. Generally speaking, Disney still offers a higher overall quality level and uniform theme than outside chains. Though they have been better and there is room for improvement.
3. Many if not most are repeats...which means they are creatures of habit. They like the disneyness of the hotels...it adds
To their perception and memories.

1. Sometimes it can actually be faster to get to park from a non-resort hotel. Your car is faster than a bus 9 times out of 10.
2. Theme may be better, but non-resort hotels offer nicer rooms for a much lower price.
3. I can agree with that. One thing that people tend to forget, if you stay at a non-resort hotel, you usually get program points for those hotels, which translates into free nights.

We choose to stay onsite because of the EMH, without it, its not worth it to us. I'll pay far less money to stay at a nicer hotel and just drive my car.

But that's just me....

 

[pooh2001]

I think there are more EMH during peak days and when it is value season, resorts not being filled to capacity, the EMH are cut back.

Why pay employees when the Parks will not look like the day time hours ?
It would be an extra expense to have one employee to 5 guests, when it should be one employee to 50 guests. Each ride should at least have some sort of a line - or a flow of people. Not an empty line with the CM trying to lure guests onto the ride.

We have done MK at 1 am on an EMH evening - the only difference from during the day was the sky was dark with stars. Guests were everywhere. Buses and the monorail were filled with tired but happy guests.

EXAMPLE

During Peak days:
MK EMH AM on Monday and Thursday
MK EMH PM on Wednesday and Saturday

During the not so busy - value days:
MK EMH AM on Thursday
MK EMH PM on Saturday

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I think you are wrong,
Magical express only accounts for half the attendees at best because not all fly.

I think if they were not to give inside park perk to attendees it would kill them. I really think they would have to shut one hotel from each price type.
Only my oppinion but most people I know always talk of it as the best perk, especially the new people going for the first time. You need those new people comming in to maintain your return customer level as some people bow out (kids get old etc.)

I love differences of opinion and this conversation is a great one for it...so thanks to everyone.

BUT...I have to disagree.

Most people do not drive.

Many people do...but not most. I did my time in resorts...and it's simple numbers...there are far fewer parking spots than rooms. Which means the assertion that that its even possible to have a "car per room" or even Half that is physically impossible.

You can even expand that...there are 450 hotels in Orlando and almost all are funneling people into WDW...that's hundreds of thousands of rooms.
Disney has 20 or so hotel
Locations with about 30000 rooms...

So considering that off site hotels supply huge numbers each day...and many if not most people drive and park...they must have a ton of parking, right?
Magic kingdom or EPCOT can have 125,000 on a capacity day...so each must have 50,000 spots to hold the cars?

Nope...MK 12,150...EPCOT 11,000...studios 6,500

The point? Your perception of driving is off. Not that many people drive...a good number do...but not a 50% split.
So while magical express may not be half...it's a far greater percentage than you think.

And while EMH is a great perk used by many...I think it's not as big as people give it credit for...nor do I think the discontinuation would tick the dial very much against Disney's business.

The good news is that I think Disney's new business model is what made EMH necessary in the first place.
Namely vacation club. DVC owners were pulled from the repeat resort guest crowd.
And since roughly 2000...the approximately time of large scale DVC expansion (along with some misguided projects in pop century and AKL) Disney has had a relatively hard time staying at full capacity - which they never did in the 70s, 80s, and 90s.

So a shift in travel habits - I believe that Disney caused - forced some perks like EMH into being.

I know carribean had a 99.97% occupancy rate from 1988 through jan 2001. That's everyday...365 days a year...2112 rooms.

Now with the online booking and some time wasting/snooping...you can track that things aren't "fully booked" very often anymore. I think they might have picked their own bones a little.

As long as that is the case...I can see them continuing
Limit access benefits for a while.

 

[JoWiJo]

Lol...
This is a great description of what EMH nights often end up like.
Perfect descriptions...well done...and EXACTLY why Disney will look to phase them out.

Nothing is new to me at the WDW parks, and I know them (guest and service areas) almost like the back of my hand...but even I sometimes feel out of place in the parks late.

I don't want to shop...I don't want to eat...and that really makes it a loss for the management to have them open.

I think very few people agree to pay the overpriced Disney rack rates to get the EMHs...because then they bludgeon you for tickets to get in on top.

$3000-$5000 for a week (room and passes for a family of 4) for a hour a day somewhere when there are 25,000 rooms filled with people with the same idea? Doesn't really add up.

I just think EMH's "seismic" effects are being overstated.

People book Disney hotels because:

1. No matter what any outside hotel says - it is a lot more difficult to access The property from the outside and you loose More valuable vacation time each day to do it.
2. Generally speaking, Disney still offers a higher overall quality level and uniform theme than outside chains. Though they have been better and there is room for improvement.
3. Many if not most are repeats...which means they are creatures of habit. They like the disneyness of the hotels...it adds
To their perception and memories.

So a premium is paid. There are other reasons, of course, but objectively those are the root reasons at the end of the day.

Not EMH, package delivery, or refillable mugs. (But I like all those things)

Magical express...the case can be made...is far
More responsible for bookings now than EMH.

That used to mean a rental car...without it, probably a 200-300 dollar average savings for the week. Real convenience and real money back in the pocket.

Clearly the value of EMH varies from person to person. On that last trip I made, it was 19y8m since my last visit. I wanted to soak up every minute I could withstand. So I appreciated them. I loved the morning ones, but those evening ones felt a bit creepy. Even still, I found value in having them. Another adult that hasn't been in a long time (or one that has never been) and goes there w/o kids may wish to stay in the park a bit longer. I can see that.

Yet I know that there are many out there that go every year, twice a year, and so forth and have seen the parks many, many times. I would think that those people would be less inclined to stay the extra hours. And families with younger kids may only want to do mornings (bed time, you know). So I can imagine why evenings were so sparse. And then there are the people that would rather just go back to the room and relax.

------

It looks like my trip this year won't happen, but I'll throw in another reason about staying on property. I was looking at the value resorts this time and even though I could get better prices outside of WDW, the cost of parking each day often offset the difference -- if it didn't put the value resorts ahead. And then since I was planning to fly, the cost of the rental car would absolutely make it more worthwhile to stay at Disney, since I could instead just take the shuttle from the airport and then use Disney transportation and forget about a rental car.

Oh, and you're right about being creatures of habit. My last two trips have been at CBR. I love that place. The atmosphere is just so calming to me. I would love to go back there again. But the prices have gone up too far for me to consider the moderate resorts for a while.

 

[RescueRanger]

I love differences of opinion and this conversation is a great one for it...so thanks to everyone.

BUT...I have to disagree.

Most people do not drive.

Many people do...but not most. I did my time in resorts...and it's simple numbers...there are far fewer parking spots than rooms. Which means the assertion that that its even possible to have a "car per room" or even Half that is physically impossible.

You can even expand that...there are 450 hotels in Orlando and almost all are funneling people into WDW...that's hundreds of thousands of rooms.
Disney has 20 or so hotel
Locations with about 30000 rooms...

So considering that off site hotels supply huge numbers each day...and many if not most people drive and park...they must have a ton of parking, right?
Magic kingdom or EPCOT can have 125,000 on a capacity day...so each must have 50,000 spots to hold the cars?

Nope...MK 12,150...EPCOT 11,000...studios 6,500

The point? Your perception of driving is off. Not that many people drive...a good number do...but not a 50% split.
So while magical express may not be half...it's a far greater percentage than you think.

And while EMH is a great perk used by many...I think it's not as big as people give it credit for...nor do I think the discontinuation would tick the dial very much against Disney's business.

The good news is that I think Disney's new business model is what made EMH necessary in the first place.
Namely vacation club. DVC owners were pulled from the repeat resort guest crowd.
And since roughly 2000...the approximately time of large scale DVC expansion (along with some misguided projects in pop century and AKL) Disney has had a relatively hard time staying at full capacity - which they never did in the 70s, 80s, and 90s.

So a shift in travel habits - I believe that Disney caused - forced some perks like EMH into being.

I know carribean had a 99.97% occupancy rate from 1988 through jan 2001. That's everyday...365 days a year...2112 rooms.

Now with the online booking and some time wasting/snooping...you can track that things aren't "fully booked" very often anymore. I think they might have picked their own bones a little.

As long as that is the case...I can see them continuing
Limit access benefits for a while.

There is a flaw to your logic. You are assuming that everyone that drives to Disney actually drives their own vehicles to the parks. That is most definitely not so. We always drive to WDW, but our car stays parked at the resort til checkout. Most people on-site use Disney transportation and even a large number of the off-site hotels have shuttles as well. So, there is no way to guage the amount of people with cars just by the amount of parking spaces used.

 

[Cogswel_Cogs]

It wuld be easier to take the number odf people who fly into MCO on average day andassign % to Disney.I would be surprised if it is greater than 50%.

I would guess the average people per room would besomethingl ike 2.7 assumingthat you cannot have more than four in a room.

 

[beer dave]

1. Sometimes it can actually be faster to get to park from a non-resort hotel. .

We are DVC so we always stay on site-- Once I traveled with a friend and family to do Richard Petty experience, and stayed with them off site. After Racing, we wanted to go to MK. Drove to the parking lot, waited for 3 trams to get to TTC, waited in line for the ferry boat through 3 or 4 boat loads, and still couldn't board. Finally we gave up and left. This was early May last year. I'll take the Disney transport.

 

[Cogswel_Cogs]

I am sorry,
I thought Magical express was the (getting you to and from airport).
The bus system to the parks is definately the biggest perk of onsite.
second to me and not far behind would be the EMH.

 

[beer dave]

I am sorry,
I thought Magical express was the (getting you to and from airport).
The bus system to the parks is definately the biggest perk of onsite.
second to me and not far behind would be the EMH.

You're right-- it is-- I was referring to driving your car to the parks from an off site resort as opposed to taking the internal bus system...

 

[lockedoutlogic]

There is a flaw to your logic. You are assuming that everyone that drives to Disney actually drives their own vehicles to the parks. That is most definitely not so. We always drive to WDW, but our car stays parked at the resort til checkout. Most people on-site use Disney transportation and even a large number of the off-site hotels have shuttles as well. So, there is no way to guage the amount of people with cars just by the amount of parking spaces used.

I actually covered that...though kinda skipped passed it.
There are simply not enough parking spots at resorts for your claim about driving to be true.

Not even close. Now, there are situations that may warp those numbers...2
Rooms for 4 people in the same car...but not enough to make it a "drive destination"

WDW is a flight destination...as evidence by the high volume at OIA for a fairly small US city.

And the preference of flight has only grown over the last 30-40 years.
Now perhaps there is some airline backlash because "cheap" flights are extinct...but still...gas ain't cheap either.

Driving is basically for southerners and those that can't function without their car (my deceased father...and those of that ilk)...but those numbers have steadily declined.

The majority of the travelers are from the upper east coast (by far), upper Midwest, lower Canada, Europe, and expanding Latin American market...and they are mostly fliers. Some because aqua cars haven't been invented yet.

Sure the Deep South and lower Midwest features alot of drivers...but they are the icing...not the cake.

You can look it up yourself if you want:
Look at the number of lined spots in the Parking lots on google earth...then compare it to the total number of rooms.

And rental cars take up a large # of those spots still.

 

[Cogswel_Cogs]

You are probabbly right, I was just guessing.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

It wuld be easier to take the number odf people who fly into MCO on average day andassign % to Disney.I would be surprised if it is greater than 50%.

I would guess the average people per room would besomethingl ike 2.7 assumingthat you cannot have more than four in a room.

I'm glad you asked...

Orlando international is the 13th largest airport by passenger traffic in the US.

It is the 29th on earth.

35.5 million visitors annually (Disney's gate numbers are about 50 million tickets scanned...not individuals...that is a very important distinction. Compare their gate number to the OiA passenger numbers...see the coincidence there?). One of the largest numbers of countries/airlines represented in the US.

For reference, mco is not a hub for a major airline (as almost all airports with heavier traffic are on the list...and only mccarron airport matches the type of travel with its ranking on the list ...aka a "tourist town" - Vegas). Orlando is the 79th largest city in the country. The metropolitan area is 26th largest.

Orlando is not a business hub by any measurement. No driving corporate presence or major market share. 75% of the economy is tied directly to travel.

All the stats are due to Disney...there is no other conclusion.
WDW is a flight destination. look at the numbers.

The question is not how many people drive...it's how many could possibly drive with the amount of People flying into a small town where almost nobody skips Disney...

 

[ChipnDale79]

We are DVC so we always stay on site-- Once I traveled with a friend and family to do Richard Petty experience, and stayed with them off site. After Racing, we wanted to go to MK. Drove to the parking lot, waited for 3 trams to get to TTC, waited in line for the ferry boat through 3 or 4 boat loads, and still couldn't board. Finally we gave up and left. This was early May last year. I'll take the Disney transport.

We typically take disney transport, I'm not the type that likes to drive my car on vacation. Once its parked, its parked.

However, last year my wife and I stayed at All Star Sports, on day 3 of our week vacation and spending over 30 minutes waiting on a bus to leave our resort every single time we went somewhere, we gave up and just drove the rest of the week.

We had no problems with trams, boats, or monorails on that trip, but have on previous ones.

 

[dsneprincess]

Morning EMH mean nothing to me in my mid-20s with no kids, but I would be DEVASTATED if they got rid of evening EMH, especially in high season. I love being able to stay until 2 am when it's cooler and doing the big ticket rides. I'm glad Sep. calendar still has them listed.

Opposite end of the spectrum as I have 2 little ones. We have always done late night EMH & never, ever hit an am one. We are just NOT morning people. We also love the late close & cooler temps in the evening. I would probably move offsite if evening EMH went away. It is the only perk that is actually a perk for us. Glad to see it won't be September at least. I don't understand early EMH & would rather those go away then late ones. We do not ride Disney buses & rarely eat Disney food. That said, we are very frequent visitors who stay onsite for late EMH. To each their own, but I don't find ME, buses, dining, or package shipment a perk at all.

 

[luvgoing2disney]

We typically take disney transport, I'm not the type that likes to drive my car on vacation. Once its parked, its parked.

However, last year my wife and I stayed at All Star Sports, on day 3 of our week vacation and spending over 30 minutes waiting on a bus to leave our resort every single time we went somewhere, we gave up and just drove the rest of the week.

We had no problems with trams, boats, or monorails on that trip, but have on previous ones.

I guess we are very lucky. We always stay at Sports and have never had a single time of a 30 minute wait for a bus and this has been at many times of the year including Christmas week. I asked my DW just in case my memory was faulty and she could not remember one either