elective amputations

monkey68

<font color=darkorchid>I instill the fear of manho
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Sep 15, 2008
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I'm just wondering people's opinions on this. I'm talking about people with some sort of body dysmorphic disorder, people who feel like they have an extra arm or leg, who want more than anything to have it cut off. Should we allow that to take place? We allow for plastic surgery for people who feel like a part of them just isn't right, and we allow for sex change operations for people who feel like they were born in the wrong gender. So is it really that irrational to allow for people who feel like their left leg just doesn't belong there to go and have it amputated?

I'm not sure what made me think of this, but since I'm home alone right now, I figured I'd get the opinions of the ever wise DIS :wizard:
 
Part of the Hippocratic Oath is to do no harm and IMO, amputating when there is nothing physically wrong is doing harm. Amputation can lead to significant disability, and while they have made amazing strides with proesthetics, it's not something you want to do for no medical reason.

The other issue here is that you cannot compare body dysmorphic disorder with the other issues yu listed. The APA no longer recognizes transgender/homosexuality as a mental illness. Body Dysmorphic Disorder is. It is the same disorder that can lead to very severe anorexia. In those cases we do not help htem lose more weight, we use psychotherapy to help them see their body in a more realistic manner.
 
I saw this on the news a few nights ago. To be honest, I think it is so screwed up. I had bone cancer, and depending on the location and severity, your limb could need to be amputated. I know several kids who are amputees, the youngest two are only 5 years old. I was just saying in my head "You know, if you want to get rid of that extra limb you should go through what these kids have gone through".


I'm not really sure how I feel about elective amputations. Part of me says, okay, but only if they've had counseling/medication/etc beforehand to see if it helps. The other part of me says, hell no! If it's not necessary, don't do it!
 
The Hippocratic Oath is going to nip that in the bud everytime.... but...I'm not adverse to them doing it themselves, lol, go for it!
 

Would this include tummy-tucks and face lifts? It would not be a stretch to rationalize just about anything into one big category.

I suppose there should be some sort of medical revue board that weighs in on the necessity of elective surgery and hold doctors to a high level of ethics. There probably is such a thing. One problem might be how these guidelines are determined.

As I ponder this, I feel people and doctors are going to do whatever they want, anyhow. :confused:
 
I lump circumcision in with this. I don't think any elective amputation is a good idea.
 
Tummy tucks and face lifts (and circumcision) are no t the same. They do not create disabilities. A tummy tuck often becomes "necessary" after people lose a large amount of weight as these types of procedures are the only want to remove excess skin. Did you know while you can gain fat cells you cannot lose them, only shrink them? Face lifts combat existing wrinkles. Those procedures are not the result of body dysmorphic disorder but are often a results of major weight loss or aging.

Now, it is possible for a person to have a form of body dysmorphic disorder leading to plastic surgery or even a plastic surgery addiction, and in such cases any reputable surgeon would not operate upon that person. I believe that many respectable plastic surgeons will look at a patient's history and motivation before consenting to do a procedure. We all know that there are hacks out there who do not, but I doubt even they would allow a person to voluntarily amputate a limb if there is no physical problem.
 
But any surgery poses with it risks, you could very easily be creating a disability if something goes wrong. And with transgendered, it really wasn't that long ago that it was considered a mental illness, and the transgendered community often sites the same things that people with BDD do, saying they felt like they were born in the wrong body. So if the person who is transgendered can get a sex change operation because they were born a man but felt they were supposed to be a girl, how can you tell the person born with 2 legs but feels like they should only have one that they can't amputate their leg?

Maybe lumping it with plastic surgery might be a stretch, but I don't think of it as much of a stretch. Definitely seems closer to me with the transgendered issue. I'm not sure which side of the coin I fall on, I can see both sides of the argument. Which is why I thought to create the topic. On one hand, who's to say what is disabled? I have a friend who is an above the knee amputee, and she doesn't really consider herself disabled. She still lives a very full and active life. I spent a summer traveling through Europe, and one girl I met, she was born with half her arm missing. Since she didn't know any other way, she adapted very quickly, and again, the missing arm really didn't hold her back either.

I don't know, I was just kind of having these random musings. As for "Do no harm", well, when you do plastic surgery, you're doing harm. Surgery is not a natural thing for your body to go through. Whenever you cut somebody open, it should be to make them better, but in the case of cosmetic surgery, there is usually noting physically wrong with them, it's usually a vanity issue, yet surgeons still cut and make lots of $$ while doing so. But they are inevitably causing harm and bringing on risk to the patient, however small the risk is, it's still more of a risk than not doing anything. So yea, I'm confused. Just needed something to ponder on, I guess.
 
Of course any surgery carries risks and can become debilitating, but the surgeon will weigh the benfits vs. the risks. For a person who has lost a lot of weight, not only can the excess skin look very unappealing, it can often become a source of infection. Many times "nose jobs" are to fix deviated septums which can cause problems with breathing.

I myself have had an elective surgery- the removal of a plica band in my knee. It was something that started bothering me my last entertainment CP and almost kept me from doing my job. It flared back up last summer and while it wasn't to the extent that I couldn't walk on it or anything, it was getting progressively worse. We made the decision that the best thing to do was to remove the plica band before it got worse, especially since dancing irritated it and I was hoping to return to dancing.

Did I know that something could go wrong potentially making my knee more painful than it was before? Yes. Did I know that the anesthesia could possibly kill me? Yes. But after weighing the statistical chance that something could go wrong and the initial pain and debilitation after the surgery with the benefits of removing the plica band, the decision was made that the benefits outweigh the risks.

The vast majority of surgeries, including plastic surgeries, go off without a hitch and while there may be itnial pain, it is decided that the benefits far outweigh the risk. A tummy tuck or face lift will only rarely cause a disability, whereas amputating an entire limb will 100% of the time cause disability.
 
Eeyore's Butterfly, I'm not talking about the types of surgeries that may be necessary, I'm talking about the ones that are for pure vanity. Breast implants or liposuction, as example. Tummy tucks after a large weight loss and corrected deviated septums may be elective, but necessary elective procedures, like the surgery you had was. I also had a surgery on my hand, I didn't need it, but I couldn't deal with the pain of it anymore. But when are breast implants medically necessary? (And I'm not talking about implants after a masectomy). A lot of the procedures done in plastic surgeries are for vanity issues. I'm not bashing anyone who had anything done, I think it's their choice and as long as they're happy and it doesn't affect me, I'm not going to judge.

But can't it be argued that people who want to go from a B cup to a D cup may have some form of BDD as well? Maybe a milder version than someone who wants to have an amputation, but it could still be some variant. The DSM is always changing, so who knows what they could decide down the road. And again, who is to say what is a disability and what's not? Maybe the person who wants an amputation feels so bad going out in public because they're not putting out who they really are, and they feel awkward and feel like everyone looking at them is a fake, so they never leave the house. That could be a disability. But once they get an amputation, they now feel "right" and are able to go outside the house and show who they are. So yes, they may have a prosthetic, but is it anymore disabling than what they may be going through before?

And then you have the people who feel so strongly about what they want, that they will go and amputate whatever it is themselves. Is it better for them to have them go at it themselves with a chainsaw, or have it be performed in a hospital, safely, with sterile precautions and anesthesia?

Look at the transgendered people who have undergone a sex change operation. If you look at a male to female transgendered, they cut off something that was probably functioning just fine, to create something that will never work the same way that a natural born female's parts will, and the sensation may be reduced with what they have. No, it's not a disability in the normal sense, but it might be a major downside for many people. Yet it's perfectly allowed for them to go through with it. Granted, there is quite a procedure that must be done first, involving psychiatric analysis and living as the desired gender, but if they are able to have the procedure done, it should stem from there that a person can have an elective amputation after a similar waiting period with psych analysis and living without the limb (tying it up so it can't be used, lets say). Maybe it's considered a psychiatric illness now, but maybe down the road, it won't be, and will go the same way as homosexuality and transgendered issues. And, interestingly, not all people that undergo a sex change operation are homosexual before the operation, which I actually find quite interesting, but that can be another thread in it of itself.
 

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