ECV Ran Over Little Boy Thursday Night at Epcot

[kaytieeldr]

They should remove walkers. I have seen many of them walk right into scooters.



There will always be incidents as long as there are people allowed to attend Disney. So since I have seen people vomit, throw tantrums, trip, fall, stumble, collapse (well--I saw them after the collapse), slip, get angry, get sad, miss their ADR, lose their fast pass, get scared on a ride, climb over someone in their ECV, take something that wasn't theirs...

We should just ban people from Disney. It may sound cruel, however people who go seem to always have something go wrong and that just isn't safe physically or mentally. They should only allow the cast members. For they are fully trained on how to properly maneuver around the park without shedding a tear or tripping over something. And those that fail that, should be fired.

We can't count the stories where you blame the driver if we can't count the stories where the pedestrian is 100% the blame.

Well, when you put it that way...

The poster to whom this was in response saw two or three incidents (it's not clear if the two kids were hit at the same time or, for that matter, what percent of the fault fell on each party).

This happens a lot at all the parks. I wish Disney would not allow them. Sounds cruel however most people using them do not know how to manuever them in crowed situations. They should only allow manuel wheelchairs either you wheel it yourself or someone else. I have seen 2 kids hit and 1 woman hit a trash can 5 times trying to turn around on a crowded sidewalk on Mainstreet!!

The woman hitting a trash can five times trying to turn on a crowded Main Street? I'm going to try really hard not to be sarcastic here. I'm going to guess that number is accurate, that you watched and counted. Based on the crowded conditions and the woman having obvious trouble maneuvering in the crowd while - likely - trying to avoid hitting a person... did it occur to you to offer her assistance?

You were apparently close enough to see her repeatedly bump into the trash can. Why not offer help?

 

[seashoreCM]

Really? You are really suggesting that someone chase after a heavy vehicle (clearly driven by someone who doesn't care if they hurt another person - or else this situation wouldn't arise in the first place) and climb onto it? That's the only way that one would be able to "take the key".

You really think that this is a good suggestion?

I just got a better suggestion. The mother calls security, tells them that someone ran over her kid from behind using an ECV, and Disney makes sure the family still has a most magical time. THe mother could as best as possible describe the ECV and the person riding it and security could at its leisure find the miscreant.

 

[kaytieeldr]

That's not a better suggestion. You should stop while you're behind .

 

[WDWBlue]

And the weight of the couple has what exactly to do with the fact that they couldn't properly drive their scooters?

Well, it was clearly a conveyance of convenience as they were much too overweight to participate in even the slightest of physical activity, you know, like walking. What made it worse is this was near Crystal Palace as we were waiting to be seated. Sure enough, that's where they were headed.

It was quite comical, and at the same time sad, to watch their efforts. Then to see them eat enough for a high school football team....

 

[SueM in MN]

You're missing my point. That poster (actually more than just that one person) thinks separate lanes for ECVs make sense. If that were the case, then those lanes would only make sense if only ECVs could use them.

The second you allow a person on foot to walk in, through, or across one of those segregated lanes (while prohibiting the ECVs from proceeding outside them), you're right back at the "ECV riders are rude, dangerous, inconsiderate, stupid, ignorant, think they own the parks..." mentality - because someone on foot who can proceed anywhere used a path that someone who's restricted to using only that path, hit them.

They do have a separate lane for wheelchairs and ECVs to get in and out of The Land building.
It is well marked with signs and pavement markers.
It is also usually full of walking people, many of them walking side by side without realizing they are preventing someone with a wheelchair or ECV from being able to use the lane.

That's not as simple or as reasonable as you'd think.

I can manage a manual wheelchair on a flat surface. I can get around the gate area at the airport; I can even get up and down the ramp at Logan's Terminal C on my own (haven't tried a similar ramp at LAS. But it's hard. It requires more upper body strength than most irregular w/c users have, and the large wheels on most rental chairs are set too far back to be able to propel oneself color hours/miles on end.

Electric - power - chairs are extremely expensive and are customized to the user's needs. Few, if any, rental companies would rent these to anyone who doesn't use one on a regular basis, and would require the renter's specs in advance. They're actually a lot harder to operate than an ECV. While it's an interesting suggestion, it's not realistic. And power chairs tend to weigh more than ECVs, even empty.

My DD's power wheelchair weighs over 250 pounds and was more expensive than my first new car.

They look easy to drive, but actually take a lot more practice to drive than an ECV.
An ECV has a hand operated throttle. You push it, the ECV goes. Stop pushing it and power is no longer supplied to the ECV, so it stops. It doesn't have brakes in the same sense that a car does - there is not a brake to apply.
There is a different lever or switch to move to put it into reverse.
Steering is controlled with a yoke, sort of like steering a bicycle.
When someone asks about using one for the first time, I usually suggest trying one out beforehand at Target, Walmart, etc. I also suggest practice before venturing out so the user can go straight forward and back and turn in both directions, both going forward and back. There is only one rental company I know of that requires that the ECV be delivered to the person so the can do some basic instruction.

Power wheelchairs are much more complicated to drive. A single joystick controls everything - speed, direction front and back and turning. If the joystick is pushed straight forward, it will go forward. Push it a little bit forward and it goes forward slowly. Push it farther forward and it it will go faster. Stop pushing and it will stop ( no conventional brakes). The faster you are going, the longer it takes to stop.
When the joystick is pulled toward the driver, it goes in reverse.
Turning involves pushing the joystick to the side at the same time as it is being pulled toward (to back up and turn) or pushed away from the driver.

 

[seashoreCM]

That's not a better suggestion. You should stop while you're behind .

OT, pun intended: "" No, I should quit while I'm ahead! ""

Let's review the bidding.

I'm walking behind the ECV which runs over the boy from behind. I stop behind the boy. The ECV continues off into the sunset. Now it's an easy matter for me to pull out my cell phone and call 911 to commence my previous suggestion that's not better, no?

 

[mfd25wife]

I haven't seen too many accidental ecv crashes but I have seen a few that I just saw them turn it around and accelerate into a crowd. This is usually after a parade or near park closing. At the same time, I have seen many many more people with battering rams they fondly refer to as strollers I would like to trip. If they don't have children in them and they are battering my ankles, I have been known to see a fire hydrant through the crowd and kind of aim for it. After asking nicely to nom avail to please stop hitting me, it's fun to step to the side just before the fire hydrant and watch her ram the hydrant. She didn't act like it worked out the way she planned.

 

[SueM in MN]

OT, pun intended: "" No, I should quit while I'm ahead! ""

Let's review the bidding.

I'm walking behind the ECV which runs over the boy from behind. I stop behind the boy. The ECV continues off into the sunset. Now it's an easy matter for me to pull out my cell phone and call 911 to commence my previous suggestion that's not better, no?

Not better. It is not a 911 situation. What are you expecting to happen?
They send a police cruiser to the park to chase the person?

At WDW, if someone needs emergency medical care, contact a CM - there will probably already be some in the area.
There are people who drive ECVs recklessly. Not that many, but they are the ones people notice. If you see someone driving in a reckless manner, you can report it to a CM or a security CM. You would need a description (lady in ECV is not enough).
There are some people who should consider whether they should be driving them - some are just nervous, which makes them behave in ways people don't expect, some can't react quickly enough to people who pop up in their path.

Many people in general don't give someone with an ECV or wheelchair the same respect they do walkers. We get cut off all the time with DD's wheelchair. She has been stopped and had walkers back into her because they are busy taking a picture and not looking what is behind them when they walk back. Then they give her dirty looks because she was there. She is often ignored or (even worse) people cut right in front of her when she is in line to buy something.

People, whether walking or on wheels, need to watch out for others and treat everyone with a little more courtesy.

 

[spacemountainmom]

Why don't these things have actual brakes? My car has brakes, my bike has brakes, a motorcycle has brakes.....

ECV users are just supposed to let go and hope the thing stops in time? Ridiculous! Seems a little re-design is in order.

 

[LuvsDragonflies]

In all my trips I've never once been battered by a stroller...are they like the Yeti and often spoken of while not often spotted, or should I be playing the Lotto?

 

[kaytieeldr]

Why don't these things have actual brakes? My car has brakes, my bike has brakes, a motorcycle has brakes.....

ECV users are just supposed to let go and hope the thing stops in time? Ridiculous! Seems a little re-design is in order.

Okay.
Next time you go food shopping, use one (no proof of 'need' required). Ask someone at the front of the store how to operate it; the ones in my supermarket are a little different from the Orlando ones. Do your food shopping.

Then figure out how they can/should be redesigned. By the way, despite what someone said earlier, it doesn't take the length of the vehicle for it to stop; releasing the throttle cuts power to the batteries, cutting power ceases motion. With any of the vehicles you mention, cutting power slows, but doesn't stop the vehicle. You still need to brake.

 

[EMom]

I've been battered by strollers twice, both times on purpose. All I know is, thank goodness I wear substantial walking shoes.........

On one trip, we came to a bottleneck. The path narrowed and the crowd was forced to scrunch together and slow down for a very brief time until the pathway broadened again. No biggie, I thought. We just slow down for a minute at most, and then we'd be back to our normal pace.

This is hard to explain in text, but I'll try. If you could SEE me explain, it might make more sense. As we got to the bottleneck, I looked behind me for some reason. Because I happened to look back at just the right moment, I saw a woman pushing an EMPTY stroller look down at my feet and take aim! There was a small space between my feet and the curb, but that space was NOT wide enougt for her stroller to get through. In that moment, she looked at my feet and aimed the stroller, sped up and rammed me. It happened so fast I didn't have time to react.

So she rammed me with that empty stroller so she could make me move over enough for her to get ONE PERSON AHEAD in the bottleneck. It didn't hurt me that much because she mainly clipped my big, thick honking shoes. As she passed me, I used those same big thick honking shoes to kick her in the ankle. Flame me if you must, but I felt no guilt. She looked back at me and we exchanged looks. She knew what she had done and that she had that kick coming. I wouldn't have done it for an oops, but for deliberate ramming......oh, yeah.

A few years later, we were leaving MK after Wishes and you know what that's like. In this case, some woman (again with an EMPTY STROLLER) was going against the tide. Of course, she was not having an easy time of it. Same thing as before, she looked at me, looked down at my feet, aimed directly at them and rammed me dead on. So I moved over, let her pass and kicked her in the ankle with my big, thick honking shoes. She said, "Owww!" Flame me again, but she had it coming.

Maybe because I'm petite, people think I'm ramming material and an easy target. Bad assumption. Those are the only two times I've done that and I've been stroller bumped more times than that. But I didn't know they were on purpose. But when I knew it was on purpose, all bets were off. What really got me both times.....EMPTY strollers were used to force their way through.

 

[SueM in MN]

Why don't these things have actual brakes? My car has brakes, my bike has brakes, a motorcycle has brakes.....

ECV users are just supposed to let go and hope the thing stops in time? Ridiculous! Seems a little re-design is in order.

very different operation and can't be compared with an ECV or power wheelchair.
Cars and motorcycles keep going even if you take your foot off the gas/stop applying the throttle. Bicycles are designed to coast when you stop pedaling.
You HAVE to apply the brake to make them stop. Since the car and motorcycle are powered by gas, some gas remains in the line when you step off of the gas and they will still go as long as they have gas. Plus, if you are on a hill, they will roll unless you put the brake on.

ECVs and power wheelchairs don't have brakes in the same way, they have something called motor braking. When you stop giving power, they stop moving. Its called a dead man switch. It is actually much safer than assuming someone will find a brake and apply it.
With my DD's power wheelchair, if she is slowly, it stops immediately when she lets go of the joystick. If she is going full speed, and just lets go of the joystick, the wheelchair may go another 6 inches before it stops, but no more than that.
Because ECVs run on battery power, like a flashlight, once you are no longer sending power, they can't operate. With no power, the wheels don't roll. You can disengage the wheels (which usually involves getting off and flipping a switch), they can be rolled, but not easily.

As katieeldr suggested, try one out before you say they need brakes.

 

[ead79]

Well, it was clearly a conveyance of convenience as they were much too overweight to participate in even the slightest of physical activity, you know, like walking. What made it worse is this was near Crystal Palace as we were waiting to be seated. Sure enough, that's where they were headed.

It was quite comical, and at the same time sad, to watch their efforts. Then to see them eat enough for a high school football team....

Maybe you don't mean it this way, but I find your post to be extremely judgmental. You don't know that it was based on convenience. Perhaps they have an illness or injury that prevents them from being able to be as mobile as they would like to be. It can be a vicious cycle since it's hard to lose weight without exercise. Also, I find it a bit sad that you seemed to be monitoring what they ate. My guess is that lots of people, from thin to obese, tend to overeat when on vacation, especially at a buffet.

As an overweight person (though I am 6 months pregnant, so give a girl a break LOL), I can tell you that it's certainly hurtful to feel that you're being judged by strangers all the time. From the sound of it, I'm not as overweight as the couple you describe, but I take more of a "there but for the grace of God go I" attitude about it. Please remember that overweight people have feelings, in fact they are often picked on. It's not "comical," it's a harsh reality.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

OT, pun intended: "" No, I should quit while I'm ahead! ""

Let's review the bidding.

I'm walking behind the ECV which runs over the boy from behind. I stop behind the boy. The ECV continues off into the sunset. Now it's an easy matter for me to pull out my cell phone and call 911 to commence my previous suggestion that's not better, no?

I don't have an issue with people being held accountable if something was done on purpose.

But if your son was knocked down by a pedestrian, would you expect security to hunt them down and detain them?

It seems folks have lost their understanding of what constitutes an accident versus deliberate intent to harm.

A person can get quite injured if they are knocked down by someone. You cannot say an ECV will always cause a greater injury as it really depends on the situation.

Recalling Natasha Richardson's death. She was on skis when she fell, but she was stationary. She hit her head and the injury caused her death. People fall on the big slopes and don't die. It all depends on the nature of the injury.

So unless you intend for Disney security to chase down anyone that causes an accident, it is not fair to single out ECV's even if it seems like the harm is greater.

 

[mhsjax]

I've been battered by strollers twice, both times on purpose. All I know is, thank goodness I wear substantial walking shoes.........

On one trip, we came to a bottleneck. The path narrowed and the crowd was forced to scrunch together and slow down for a very brief time until the pathway broadened again. No biggie, I thought. We just slow down for a minute at most, and then we'd be back to our normal pace.

This is hard to explain in text, but I'll try. If you could SEE me explain, it might make more sense. As we got to the bottleneck, I looked behind me for some reason. Because I happened to look back at just the right moment, I saw a woman pushing an EMPTY stroller look down at my feet and take aim! There was a small space between my feet and the curb, but that space was NOT wide enougt for her stroller to get through. In that moment, she looked at my feet and aimed the stroller, sped up and rammed me. It happened so fast I didn't have time to react.

So she rammed me with that empty stroller so she could make me move over enough for her to get ONE PERSON AHEAD in the bottleneck. It didn't hurt me that much because she mainly clipped my big, thick honking shoes. As she passed me, I used those same big thick honking shoes to kick her in the ankle. Flame me if you must, but I felt no guilt. She looked back at me and we exchanged looks. She knew what she had done and that she had that kick coming. I wouldn't have done it for an oops, but for deliberate ramming......oh, yeah.

A few years later, we were leaving MK after Wishes and you know what that's like. In this case, some woman (again with an EMPTY STROLLER) was going against the tide. Of course, she was not having an easy time of it. Same thing as before, she looked at me, looked down at my feet, aimed directly at them and rammed me dead on. So I moved over, let her pass and kicked her in the ankle with my big, thick honking shoes. She said, "Owww!" Flame me again, but she had it coming.

Maybe because I'm petite, people think I'm ramming material and an easy target. Bad assumption. Those are the only two times I've done that and I've been stroller bumped more times than that. But I didn't know they were on purpose. But when I knew it was on purpose, all bets were off. What really got me both times.....EMPTY strollers were used to force their way through.

I think you and I could be friends.

 

[spacemountainmom]

very different operation and can't be compared with an ECV or power wheelchair.
Cars and motorcycles keep going even if you take your foot off the gas/stop applying the throttle. Bicycles are designed to coast when you stop pedaling.
You HAVE to apply the brake to make them stop. Since the car and motorcycle are powered by gas, some gas remains in the line when you step off of the gas and they will still go as long as they have gas. Plus, if you are on a hill, they will roll unless you put the brake on.

ECVs and power wheelchairs don't have brakes in the same way, they have something called motor braking. When you stop giving power, they stop moving. Its called a dead man switch. It is actually much safer than assuming someone will find a brake and apply it.
With my DD's power wheelchair, if she is slowly, it stops immediately when she lets go of the joystick. If she is going full speed, and just lets go of the joystick, the wheelchair may go another 6 inches before it stops, but no more than that.
Because ECVs run on battery power, like a flashlight, once you are no longer sending power, they can't operate. With no power, the wheels don't roll. You can disengage the wheels (which usually involves getting off and flipping a switch), they can be rolled, but not easily.

As katieeldr suggested, try one out before you say they need brakes.

I have actually moved one. I used to work in a store and had to drive one to the back of the store because the one the customer was using went dead. I found it to be frustrating and hope that I never need to use one.

That being said, I don't understand why the idea that brakes might be a good idea is offensive. Wouldn't most users be more comfortable if they knew that they could stop immediately if they needed to? I'm not trying to start an argument, I just am thinking there is value in an actual braking mechanism.

We all need to watch where we are going whether we walk, ride or push a stroller.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Stopping by releasing the throttle IS immediate. Stopping by releasing the throttle then applying a brake, isn't.

 

[SueM in MN]

Stopping by releasing the throttle IS immediate. Stopping by releasing the throttle then applying a brake, isn't.

What kaytieeldr said.
It's not that the idea of brakes is offensive - it's that the way it currently works is effective and brakes would not work.
Without power, the wheels do not turn. You don't need a step on the brake pedal to stop it. Once the throttle or joystick is let go of, it stops.
That doesn't happen with a car or motorcycle. That's why they need brakes.

 

[nephthys43]

I've been battered by strollers twice, both times on purpose. All I know is, thank goodness I wear substantial walking shoes.........

On one trip, we came to a bottleneck. The path narrowed and the crowd was forced to scrunch together and slow down for a very brief time until the pathway broadened again. No biggie, I thought. We just slow down for a minute at most, and then we'd be back to our normal pace.

This is hard to explain in text, but I'll try. If you could SEE me explain, it might make more sense. As we got to the bottleneck, I looked behind me for some reason. Because I happened to look back at just the right moment, I saw a woman pushing an EMPTY stroller look down at my feet and take aim! There was a small space between my feet and the curb, but that space was NOT wide enougt for her stroller to get through. In that moment, she looked at my feet and aimed the stroller, sped up and rammed me. It happened so fast I didn't have time to react.

So she rammed me with that empty stroller so she could make me move over enough for her to get ONE PERSON AHEAD in the bottleneck. It didn't hurt me that much because she mainly clipped my big, thick honking shoes. As she passed me, I used those same big thick honking shoes to kick her in the ankle. Flame me if you must, but I felt no guilt. She looked back at me and we exchanged looks. She knew what she had done and that she had that kick coming. I wouldn't have done it for an oops, but for deliberate ramming......oh, yeah.

A few years later, we were leaving MK after Wishes and you know what that's like. In this case, some woman (again with an EMPTY STROLLER) was going against the tide. Of course, she was not having an easy time of it. Same thing as before, she looked at me, looked down at my feet, aimed directly at them and rammed me dead on. So I moved over, let her pass and kicked her in the ankle with my big, thick honking shoes. She said, "Owww!" Flame me again, but she had it coming.

Maybe because I'm petite, people think I'm ramming material and an easy target. Bad assumption. Those are the only two times I've done that and I've been stroller bumped more times than that. But I didn't know they were on purpose. But when I knew it was on purpose, all bets were off. What really got me both times.....EMPTY strollers were used to force their way through.

i think i love you!