ECV Ran Over Little Boy Thursday Night at Epcot

[kaytieeldr]

I agree with you. I harbor no ill will toward ECV users but the use of them has exploded at Disney thru the years and it is dangerous.

Everyone will have some type of hassles, but you choose to deal with the hassle and make due. If you bring kids you have tons of stuff you have to lug around and you have to deal with a stroller.

If you have limited mobility you deal with a wheelchair...even an electric wheelchair would be less imposing than the ECV. Just because you have mobility issues doesn't mean the only option is an ECV.

That's not as simple or as reasonable as you'd think.

I can manage a manual wheelchair on a flat surface. I can get around the gate area at the airport; I can even get up and down the ramp at Logan's Terminal C on my own (haven't tried a similar ramp at LAS. But it's hard. It requires more upper body strength than most irregular w/c users have, and the large wheels on most rental chairs are set too far back to be able to propel oneself color hours/miles on end.

Electric - power - chairs are extremely expensive and are customized to the user's needs. Few, if any, rental companies would rent these to anyone who doesn't use one on a regular basis, and would require the renter's specs in advance. They're actually a lot harder to operate than an ECV. While it's an interesting suggestion, it's not realistic. And power chairs tend to weigh more than ECVs, even empty.

 

[Talking Hands]

I have never posted in an ECV thread before because of the controversy, but I'll risk it now to say I wish EVCs would be BANNED in WDW.

And if the EVC drivers feel terrible, they SHOULD. Feeling terrible will not solve the problem.

They are dangerous. Only wheelchairs should be allowed. Heavy moving vehicles should NOT be allowed to drive among people walking, where there are children running and being children but have to be told to be careful because a 300 lb electric moving vehicle may be coming by.

Wheelchairs only!

Sorry that your child was knocked down by an ECV but banning ECV and Powered wheelchairs from Disney is not the solution. This in effect would ban many disabled people who use their powered wheelchairs in daily life from enjoying Disney either independently or with their family. An manual wheelchair for many means lose of independence.
Having people who rent ECVs take a short training session would be a good. The times I have had to use a Disney ECV I was not given any instruction on how to use the ECV. Just handed the keys. Fortunately I have used an ECV or PWC for about 15 years now so knew what I was doing. The ECVs rented by Disney do have regulators on their speed. Those rented from outside do not. Privately owned ECVs and PWC do also have limits on speed unless they have asked that it be removed. Even with the speed limitation removed I can only go about 3 1/2 miles per hour max.
Personally I hated when strangers stand behind my PWC. Too many times they use it as a leaning post. I also prefer that children not be close on the side where my controller is. While I do turn it off, it is easily turned back on and if the stick is hit the PWC will move. Do I feel bad if I clip a person accidently. Frankly not always. Really depends on the situation and if the person has cut me on purpose. I've actually had a teenage boy play chicken with my PWC. Also had a parent tell her kids to cut me off and a mom literally walk into my stopped wheelchair and fall into my lap. It goes both ways. Also been hit by people driving rentals.
One thing we always advise people talking about renting an ECV for their Disney trip is that the use one at Walmart or the grocery store to get a feel for the ECVs as the ones rented at Disney are smaller and if you can handle the store ones you should be fine with the Disney ones.

 

[Talking Hands]

That is a major part of the problem- people go to Disney and then rent a ECV for the first time ever- you would think perhaps they would have to pass some type of test before setting them loose on the public!
I don't know about banning them but they should have a seperate lane of traffic that the EVC's have to remain in and not let them ride where people are walking. They should not be there motoring along right with people who are walking! They should also have them set to much much slower speed-perhaps if they were set to "crawl" the people would be able to stop in time!

I wouldn't mind a separate lane if I was alone but if it meant I had to be separate from my family then no way. As to being able to stop in time. ECVs have no brakes in the normal sense of the word. What they have is a passive braking system, ie you remove your hand from the controller or move it to a neutral position you will stop because the motor is not getting any electricity, like the kids toys or a flashlight that don't work when the connection is interrupted. When you have used an ECV /PWC for a long time you get a feeling for your own and become good a gauging how far away from others you need to be. Unfortunately, just as in a car, people tend to fill that gap and cut you off. Sometimes accidents happen.

That said there is no way a person in an ECV should run into a stopped person unless they are following too close or the person stopped abruptly.

 

[asta]

Sorry that your child was knocked down by an ECV but banning ECV and Powered wheelchairs from Disney is not the solution. This in effect would ban many disabled people who use their powered wheelchairs in daily life from enjoying Disney either independently or with their family. An manual wheelchair for many means lose of independence.
Having people who rent ECVs take a short training session would be a good. The times I have had to use a Disney ECV I was not given any instruction on how to use the ECV. Just handed the keys. Fortunately I have used an ECV or PWC for about 15 years now so knew what I was doing. The ECVs rented by Disney do have regulators on their speed. Those rented from outside do not. Privately owned ECVs and PWC do also have limits on speed unless they have asked that it be removed. Even with the speed limitation removed I can only go about 3 1/2 miles per hour max.
Personally I hated when strangers stand behind my PWC. Too many times they use it as a leaning post. I also prefer that children not be close on the
side where my controller is. While I do turn it off, it is easily turned back on and if the stick is hit the PWC will move. Do I feel bad if I clip a person accidently. Frankly not always. Really depends on the situation and if the person has cut me on purpose. I've actually had a teenage boy play chicken with my PWC. Also had a parent tell her kids to cut me off and a mom literally walk into my stopped wheelchair and fall into my lap. It goes both ways. Also been hit by people driving rentals.
One thing we always advise people talking about renting an ECV for their
Disney trip is that the use one at Walmart or the grocery store to get a feel for the ECVs as the ones rented at Disney are smaller and if you can handle the store ones you should be fine with the Disney ones.

I am sorry but I think this is a terrible thing to say and an even worse attitude if you truly think this way. Whether you use an ECV out of necessity or out of convenience, you have to realize that you are operating a heavy machine and that flesh and bones are always at a disadvantage. it is your responsibility to insure that you don't harm anyone. I also don't think that you can make the call about why a person ventures into a space that you think you own. They may have reason to think that they have right to be in that space. Just like one cannot make a call about whether someone else really needs mobility assistance, you can't make a call about why someone takes the steps that they do. It could be an unsteady walker, could be they had to swerve to avoid someone else. It is never OK for you to hit them.

Your attitude is a big part of the problem.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I am sorry but I think this is a terrible thing to say and an even worse attitude if you truly think this way. Whether you use an ECV out of necessity or out of convenience, you have to realize that you are operating a heavy machine and that flesh and bones are always at a disadvantage. it is your responsibility to insure that you don't harm anyone. I also don't think that you can make the call about why a person ventures into a space that you think you own. They may have reason to think that they have right to be in that space. Just like one cannot make a call about whether someone else really needs mobility assistance, you can't make a call about why someone takes the steps that they do. It could be an unsteady walker, could be they had to swerve to avoid someone else. It is never OK for you to hit them.

Your attitude is a big part of the problem.

She never indicated it was intentional...just that she wasn't always sorry if it occurred.

I took it as her way of saying that some people had a hand in getting clipped. Not that she was intentionally clipping them.

 

[PeterPan09]

I seriously doubt that mom is thankful for her child's broken legs (which it sounds like happened in the OP).

Perhaps if the person driving the ECV that night had been thinking of the other people around them instead of their own agenda the child would not have been hit in the first place.

That's the point I was making. People at Disney, and many other places these days view other people as obstacles to their fun and enjoyment. Instead of enjoying Disney as part of a large group of people and being aware of others around you and their needs, it's ALL ABOUT ME!!! That's why people get run over by strollers and ECV's. I would guess that 90% of the accidents at Disney could be prevented with just a little bit of consideration for the others around us.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Just like one cannot make a call about whether someone else really needs mobility assistance, you can't make a call about why someone takes the steps that they do. It could be an unsteady walker, Could be... could be they had to swerve to avoid someone else Could be.... It is never OK for you to hit them.

Could be any number of reasons. But - while none of us are mind-readers - simple experience and observation indicates it's someone not wanting to wait the three seconds it will take for the ECV to pass or not wanting to walk around the back of it instead of the front.

 

[JessicaR]

Could someone please tell me if there was a response to the OP? Just wondering if it was mentioned if the little boy is OK. Thank you, didn't want to read through 13 pages.

 

[asta]

She never indicated it was intentional...just that she wasn't always sorry if it occurred.

I took it as her way of saying that some people had a hand in getting clipped. Not that she was intentionally clipping them.

Whether you intentionally clip someone or not your sense of human decency should make you feel bad about hurting them. I would feel sorry for any pain that I had a hand in causing.

There is still no way for this poster or anyone else to exactly know why someone takes the steps that they choose. You may think you know but that is still just your opinion. And I find it appalling that someone can think it is OK to harm another human based on an opinion formed while operating heavy equipment in a crowded theme park.

 

[asta]

Could be any number of reasons. But - while none of us are mind-readers - simple experience and observation indicates it's someone not wanting to wait the three seconds it will take for the ECV to pass or not wanting to walk around the back of it instead of the front.

My point is that the poster nor anyone else really knows why someone chooses the steps taken. I still find it appalling that this person can make this guess and hurt someone and not feel bad about it. A person who acts and thinks like this should not be allowed to operate a machine that can hurt someone.

 

[PeterPan09]

Could someone please tell me if there was a response to the OP? Just wondering if it was mentioned if the little boy is OK. Thank you, didn't want to read through 13 pages.

I live in the Disney area and have not heard anything about the incident at all other than here. My hope is that means that the child's injuries were not as serious as first thought and that he is enjoying the rest of his vacation.

 

[JessicaR]

I live in the Disney area and have not heard anything about the incident at all other than here. My hope is that means that the child's injuries were not as serious as first thought and that he is enjoying the rest of his vacation.

Thank you. I hope so too.

 

[Conservative Hippie]

Sorry - even after getting repeatedly rammed by an ECV while my foot was stuck under it and nearly dropping my daughter, I still don't think ECVs should be banned. I would love to see them used only by those who need them and know how to use them, but unfortunately stupid people don't carry around signs letting you know they are stupid. There will still be people who abuse them just like there are people that abuse the GAC, Child Swap, etc.

 

[Talking Hands]

I am sorry but I think this is a terrible thing to say and an even worse attitude if you truly think this way. Whether you use an ECV out of necessity or out of convenience, you have to realize that you are operating a heavy machine and that flesh and bones are always at a disadvantage. it is your responsibility to insure that you don't harm anyone. I also don't think that you can make the call about why a person ventures into a space that you think you own. They may have reason to think that they have right to be in that space. Just like one cannot make a call about whether someone else really needs mobility assistance, you can't make a call about why someone takes the steps that they do. It could be an unsteady walker, could be they had to swerve to avoid someone else. It is never OK for you to hit them.

Your attitude is a big part of the problem.

If you looked at the situations I described, you would have realized that the people in these situations either did something risky or told another person to do something risky or in the last case just plain wasn't paying attention and fell on me while I was stopped. In the case of the young girls I didn't hit them. They had more sense than the mother and refused to bolt in front of me even when I slowed to allow them to pass. The teen playing chicken literally jumped in front of me from a waiting position. He stopped and then went in front of me at the last possible second and yes he did get clipped. In the last case I was stopped to the right side of the bridge entering AK taking a picture and the person who was walking towards walked into me and fell in my lap. My attitude is not a part of the problem but the attitude of the teen, the mother and the person who wasn't paying attention and walked into a stopped wheelchair user. I rarely hit others with my PWC. When someone purposely does something stupid sometimes they do get clipped. Trust me. If I could move around in the crowd in front of the castle at Night of Joy without running over anyone I can move around in crowds with my PWC.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Whether you intentionally clip someone or not your sense of human decency should make you feel bad about hurting them. I would feel sorry for any pain that I had a hand in causing.

There is still no way for this poster or anyone else to exactly know why someone takes the steps that they choose. You may think you know but that is still just your opinion. And I find it appalling that someone can think it is OK to harm another human based on an opinion formed while operating heavy equipment in a crowded theme park.

My point is that the poster nor anyone else really knows why someone chooses the steps taken. I still find it appalling that this person can make this guess and hurt someone and not feel bad about it. A person who acts and thinks like this should not be allowed to operate a machine that can hurt someone.

When somebody looks at you (yes, you're sure they saw you) moving in the ECV and then crosses your path six inches in front of you anyway - well, it's hard to feel sympathy, or responsible.

And she didn't say it's okay to clip another person - do I need, by the way, to point out that there isn't a definition or synonym of 'clip' that even implies 'injure'. She said she wouldn't always feel bad if she clipped someone. Inthink we can agree it would depend on the circumstances?

 

[Talking Hands]

My point is that the poster nor anyone else really knows why someone chooses the steps taken. I still find it appalling that this person can make this guess and hurt someone and not feel bad about it. A person who acts and thinks like this should not be allowed to operate a machine that can hurt someone.

In each of my examples where I was not sorry the situations were quite clear. The teen stopped and waited to sprint in front of me until I was less than 6" from him. He was playing chicken!
The mother told the girls to run in front of the PWC. I did not hit them because the girls were smarter than the mother. I clearly heard her tell them to do it.
The last case I was the one who was hurt and had to go to first aid for my injury. And I received no apology from the person WHO FELL ON ME.

 

[asta]

If you looked at the situations I described, you would have realized that the people in these situations either did something risky or told another person to do something risky or in the last case just plain wasn't paying attention and fell on me while I was stopped. In the case of the young girls I didn't hit them. They had more sense than the mother and refused to bolt in front of me even when I slowed to allow them to pass. The teen playing chicken literally jumped in front of me from a waiting position. He stopped and then went in front of me at the last possible second and yes he did get clipped. In the last case I was stopped to the right side of the bridge entering AK taking a picture and the person who was walking towards walked into me and fell in my lap. My attitude is not a part of the problem but the attitude of the teen, the mother and the person who wasn't paying attention and walked into a stopped wheelchair user. I rarely hit others with my PWC. When someone purposely does something stupid sometimes they do get clipped. Trust me. If I could move around in the
crowd in front of the castle at Night of Joy without running over anyone I can move around in crowds with my PWC.

Whatever the situation appears to you, me or anyone else, I would always feel bad about hurting someone else. The term clipping sounds like an attempt to downplay the damage you have no regret in inflicting. You have still been part of an incident hurting someone else. It is troubling that you think that you can make calls on when it is OK to hurt someone else. That attitude is a huge part of the problem. An ECV becomes a weapon in the hands of someone who thinks that they are all knowing enough to make a call of when it is OK to hurt another person.

 

[asta]

When somebody looks at you (yes, you're sure they saw you) moving in the ECV and then crosses your path six inches in front of you anyway - well, it's hard to feel sympathy, or responsible.

And she didn't say it's okay to clip another person - do I need, by the way, to point out that there isn't a definition or synonym of 'clip' that even implies 'injure'. She said she wouldn't always feel bad if she clipped someone. Inthink we can agree it would depend on the circumstances?

American Heritage Dictionary:
Clip - to hit with a sharp blow

That definition more than implies injury.

I still stand by my original point that no matter what assumptions are made regarding motive or degree of injury, human decency compels us to be sorry if we cause harm to another. I am sad that you and the other poster think that this is OK. I can only hope that I am never in the same location where you all are deciding if my behavior warrants being hurt.

 

[bumbershoot]

Really? I should keep track of what's travelling behind me?

Yes, of course. Like before you stop to read a map, you check around you to make sure you're not going to cause someone to have to stop short. Before moving to the left or right on a walkway, you make sure there's no one on those sides, but behind? Typical kind ways of moving in a crowd to keep ourselves safe and make sure we aren't going to cause problems.

In the 80's they were not all over the place. Even in the early 90's. If people had issues walking they used a cane or a wheelchair. And they (gasp!) wheeled themselves. Now, I can drive a mile and see at least a few of them.

People are aging, people are getting more autoimmune disorders, etc. Who knows how many people were sitting at home back then, just waiting for something like a scooter to be invented...

You're right. After that incident, I watched my son more carefully. At the time, I had NO idea I'd have to watch out for heavy moving vehicles driving among the people in WDW while my son running to get an ice cream. I know better now.

But...your son should never have been running in WDW to begin with! Disney is not for running. Brisk walking, sure. Walking with purpose absolutely. B t running? Never. Gotta stay under control at Disney, as there are too many ways to get hurt and/or hurt others.

Or they did not get to go and enjoy Disney with their families...

Did you ever consider that the technology, availability and affordability of these scooters have allowed people who would otherwise stay home or at the hotel to enjoy/be able to tour the parks with their families???

Exactly.

Whether you intentionally clip someone or not your sense of human decency should make you feel bad about hurting them. I would feel sorry for any pain that I had a hand in causing.

The poster was talking about things that others had done to themselves with the help of what she was using.

Once at Disneyland, or rather California adventure, there was a woman pushing a baby in a stroller. She was way off to the right side of the walkway, she was going at a fine pace, she was in no one's way. There was plenty of space to the left of her...I should know as I was there, and there was plenty of space all around me. A young man behind us started running down the hill behind us, and instead of taking any number of perfectly clear, nothing in his way, routes, he chose to take the millimeters between the stroller and the wall around grizzly river run, to pass her on her right. He quite literally leapt over the stroller to the right, as the woman was pushing it with her baby it.

I fully expected him to biff it badly. If he had done so, should we have felt y for him? I don't see how we should be expected to do so. He would have brought it all upon himself, just using her stroller and the downward slope to do it. As it was, he landed and kept on running. He, and especially the baby, were extraordinarily lucky.

I see the poster's lack of feeling for those people to be like that. She, just like the woman with the stroller, had nothing to do with their injuries or possible injuries, she was just the person operating the equipment that they hurt themselves on.

 

[maxiesmom]

Whatever the situation appears to you, me or anyone else, I would always feel bad about hurting someone else. The term clipping sounds like an attempt to downplay the damage you have no regret in inflicting. You have still been part of an incident hurting someone else. It is troubling that you think that you can make calls on when it is OK to hurt someone else. That attitude is a huge part of the problem. An ECV becomes a weapon in the hands of someone who thinks that they are all knowing enough to make a call of when it is OK to hurt another person.

I think in those particular cases the people hurt themselves. They did something stupid which caused them to get hurt. Playing chicken with a person in a scooter is just stupid, as is telling your child to try and cut in front of one. You seem to want to blame the person on the scooter no matter what, and sometimes it just isn't their fault their scooter injurs someone.