ECV Ran Over Little Boy Thursday Night at Epcot

[DaisyD]

You don't have to run in front of an idiot to be hit by an ECV, I've been standing for a parade and had some moron on one knock me over.

It is sad but the only way to eliminate this problem is for people that get hit by them to sue the rear end off the person that rented it to the idiot driving it. I'm willing to bet that most of the time people get nailed by them it isn't by grand pa and grand ma that use it every day, I'm willing to bet most are tagged by someone that never used one before.

And yes I know there are plenty that will claim that someone that needs a wheel chair can't be expected to use a wheel chair at Disney, but I only ask how does that person get around when they go to the mall or airport? If they use a wheel chair then clearly a ECV isn't a requirement it might make things easier but then how many kids need to get their angles broken so someone in a wheel chair can play mario kart.

My mom uses an ECV when we go on vacation. She doesn't need one at home because she doesn't need to walk that much. I remember the last time we went to WDW before she got her ecv. It took her over an hour to go up Main Street and her knees were in a lot of pain. She was miserable. I talked her into an ECV and it has been great for her. When we go the the airport I get her a wheelchair. Depending on the airport I can push her to the gate. I took her to Vegas and got her an ECV there too. At the LV airport I needed help getting her up some inclines. I thought I would pass out. LOL So yes, there are reasons you need to use an ECV on vacation and not at home.

 

[DizBelle]

This is the real problem. I'm beginning to believe that nearly every person at Disney is convinced that the entire park has been placed there JUST FOR THEM. All these other people are merely obstacles placed in the way of their good time.

The other thing...what the heck happened to compassion in this country?? Holy smoke, I have read and heard more rotten things said about "everybody else that isn't me" lately than I can remember. As a group, we seem to have lost the ability to share anything or to even think about envisioning what someone else might be dealing with in their life.

Take a step back, look at your blessings and be thankful for them! Be thankful that you are able to afford a trip to Disney in this economy! Be thankful that you have the ability to get around on your own! Be thankful that someone invented the ECV so you could do things you never could before! Be thankful that your kids are grown and you don't have to watch them every second. Be thankful that your kids are young and still think it's ok to hold Mom and Dad's hand in the parks, or that you can still hold them in your arms. Look around you at the other people who are there to enjoy the same things you are and be thankful for Walt and all the other people who made it all happen so you could all be there.

Maybe if we all thought about how lucky we really are, we might start to treat each other a little better.

I seriously doubt that mom is thankful for her child's broken legs (which it sounds like happened in the OP).

 

[phorsenuf]

I used to use an ECV when I went to the parks but not anymore. Too many people that cross in front of you, stop short, suddenly change direction, let their kids run ahead, etc. So now I walk the parks instead and let me tell you it sucks. By the end of the day I can barely move. My legs are numb and my feet are swollen. I've had to adjust my park touring to accommodate my disability.
I wish I could tour the parks and not be in pain but I'm so sick and tired of the inconsiderate people that are only looking out for themselves and not the others around them. And nevermind being at butt level the whole time.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Those that say Disney can't make any kind of accomodations for scooter paths that may only be because they haven't tried. Remember, the scooter problem is a relatively new problem. When the Disney parks were built they clearly had no idea that scooters would some day take over the pathways but here you are.

You know how they tape off areas all along the edge so people can watch the parades? Take that same system and use it to create paths for motorized vehicles. On each side of the path. Scooters would have to travel one direction in one lane and the other direction in the other lane. LOL

I think the problem with scooters and strollers is how hidden they are in a crowd. Several years ago I saw a really neat childs stroller with the seat a couple of feet higher than they normally are. The childs head was about adult waist level or a bit higher. The little guy was no longer at butt level and was clearly happier and able to be seen by others. Very easy to avoid his stroller. Would scooters benefit from a redesign I wonder?

I just wonder what the solution is. We're simply going to see more and more of them in the parks so the powers that be should really consider dealing with the issue now before it does get worse.

Again, how would those pathways work with all of the stores and shops? You would have to widen every entryway in order to have seperate entry lanes into the shops. And how on earth would you ensure people stayed in the proper lane? And what about families who have one member on a scooter. Would they walk in the lane with their family member on the scooter, and be subject to getting run over by other scooter using guests, or would they not be allowed to walk with their own family member?

Most important, how do you keep guests on foot OUT of the designated ECV/wheelchair lane?

 

[NEVERENOUGHWDW]

Sad to see nobody has posted about the boy.

When we left the area they were calling the paramedics. Sorry I forget who asked that.

 

[jrmasm]

Here's a thought: WATCH WHERE YOU ARE GOING!!!!!!!!

That goes for ECV operators AND pedestrians.

 

[thomas998]

My mom uses an ECV when we go on vacation. She doesn't need one at home because she doesn't need to walk that much. I remember the last time we went to WDW before she got her ecv. It took her over an hour to go up Main Street and her knees were in a lot of pain. She was miserable. I talked her into an ECV and it has been great for her. When we go the the airport I get her a wheelchair. Depending on the airport I can push her to the gate. I took her to Vegas and got her an ECV there too. At the LV airport I needed help getting her up some inclines. I thought I would pass out. LOL So yes, there are reasons you need to use an ECV on vacation and not at home.

Lets look at it a slightly different way, you have a pristine trail up into the mountains, undisturbed natures accessible only on the trail that is rather steep.... Many people in shape use the trail and enjoy the peaceful splendor... Now along comes a bunch of people that aren't in shape and can't climb up the trail to see the view, so they decide to bring ATVs so they can barrel up the trail... the result will be destruction of the trail, dangers for the people walking the trail and wildlife vanishing from the area because of the constant sounds of ATVs... Is that okay with you? I would suggest that people need to accept their limitations and not encroach on others pleasures thoughtlessly. And ECV at Disney is like the ATV on a mountain, it might allow some to do something easier than they otherwise could, but it takes away from others in the process. While you mom may use an ECV, she could also simply go slower, take more time to do things and skip the ECV... or if she is in such horrible shape that she can't do that, well maybe she isn't fit to enjoy WDW and shouldn't go there. If I wasn't in shape to climb up the mountain I wouldn't feel it was my right to bring and ATV along and blast up it knocking everyone out of the way... as we get older there are things we simply are no longer able to do. At some point everyone will reach a point where no matter how much you like Disney or any other activity, you simply will not be able to do it anymore.... if your lucky that time wont happen until you are very old.... would you support allowing motorized hospital beds to push through for those that were bed ridden and couldn't be placed in a wheel chair or scooter?

 

[kaytieeldr]

I haven't read the entire thread. But my thoughts are:

1) ECVs should all have to have one of those flags on them... sometimes in a crowd its hard to see them until they are right next to you.

It's an interesting idea, but then you will - seriously - get complaints from people who were poked in the eye by one of those flags, or whose view (or trip!) was ruined because of the 'sea' of ECV flags...

2) To rent and ECV or get in with one they should have a little area that you have to be able to drive though... like a mini test. Logistically it would be a pain, but possible. I think places 100% should be able to ban an ECV if the driver can't drive it through something like this. (when my mom was there we pushed her in a wheel chair, it sucked, I hated it but we did because if we got her an ECV it would have sucked much worse when she kept running into my husband and I, and probably everyone else becasue she has never rode one before and... well I have seen some of the things she has done in a car and she has been driving those for over 40 years.

Well, somebody who works in wheelchair rental said they do make sure renters know how to operate them; actual "mini-tests" would require additional staffing and space.

Most off-site rental companies never even interact with the renter, they just drop the ecv at the hotel. The one company that does deliver directly to the renter will explain how to use (and disassemble/reassemble if appropriate) it, but even they don't have time for actual training. Generally, it's presumed if you're renting such a device, you have an idea how to operate it.

 

[DaisyD]

Lets look at it a slightly different way, you have a pristine trail up into the mountains, undisturbed natures accessible only on the trail that is rather steep.... Many people in shape use the trail and enjoy the peaceful splendor... Now along comes a bunch of people that aren't in shape and can't climb up the trail to see the view, so they decide to bring ATVs so they can barrel up the trail... the result will be destruction of the trail, dangers for the people walking the trail and wildlife vanishing from the area because of the constant sounds of ATVs... Is that okay with you? I would suggest that people need to accept their limitations and not encroach on others pleasures thoughtlessly. And ECV at Disney is like the ATV on a mountain, it might allow some to do something easier than they otherwise could, but it takes away from others in the process. While you mom may use an ECV, she could also simply go slower, take more time to do things and skip the ECV... or if she is in such horrible shape that she can't do that, well maybe she isn't fit to enjoy WDW and shouldn't go there. If I wasn't in shape to climb up the mountain I wouldn't feel it was my right to bring and ATV along and blast up it knocking everyone out of the way... as we get older there are things we simply are no longer able to do. At some point everyone will reach a point where no matter how much you like Disney or any other activity, you simply will not be able to do it anymore.... if your lucky that time wont happen until you are very old.... would you support allowing motorized hospital beds to push through for those that were bed ridden and couldn't be placed in a wheel chair or scooter?

Your post is laughable. My mom is in her mid 70s with 2 bad knees. She has a heart condition that makes it so she can't get her knees operated on. She is a thin, frail woman who has had numerous issues over her lifetime but is no less deserving to enjoy WDW. The only thing I can find disturbing about going to WDW is people like you with your ignorant way of thinking.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Just throwing out to the ECV drivers, other than WDW we usually have little to no experience with these things. So as a walker, you aren't really used to having the keep an eye out for the scooters. I'm not saying that some people don't purposely walk in front of them, just that for a lot of people it's just something they don't deal with.

Let's face it, WDW probably is the scooter capitol of the world. They should only be allowed to go as fast as a person can walk and should have actual brakes rather than the release and stop system they have now.

Brakes would probably result in longer, not shorter, stopping time. As it is, releasing the throttle ceases propulsion except the remaining gravitational force. Adding brakes would add a second step, and require additional action from the rider.

 

[Conservative Hippie]

Lets look at it a slightly different way, you have a pristine trail up into the mountains, undisturbed natures accessible only on the trail that is rather steep.... Many people in shape use the trail and enjoy the peaceful splendor... Now along comes a bunch of people that aren't in shape and can't climb up the trail to see the view, so they decide to bring ATVs so they can barrel up the trail... the result will be destruction of the trail, dangers for the people walking the trail and wildlife vanishing from the area because of the constant sounds of ATVs... Is that okay with you? I would suggest that people need to accept their limitations and not encroach on others pleasures thoughtlessly. And ECV at Disney is like the ATV on a mountain, it might allow some to do something easier than they otherwise could, but it takes away from others in the process. While you mom may use an ECV, she could also simply go slower, take more time to do things and skip the ECV... or if she is in such horrible shape that she can't do that, well maybe she isn't fit to enjoy WDW and shouldn't go there. If I wasn't in shape to climb up the mountain I wouldn't feel it was my right to bring and ATV along and blast up it knocking everyone out of the way... as we get older there are things we simply are no longer able to do. At some point everyone will reach a point where no matter how much you like Disney or any other activity, you simply will not be able to do it anymore.... if your lucky that time wont happen until you are very old.... would you support allowing motorized hospital beds to push through for those that were bed ridden and couldn't be placed in a wheel chair or scooter?

Wow, absolutely not. Even with an ECV/wheelchair there are still plenty of things my dad cannot do at WDW because he cannot transfer out of a wheelchair into the ride vehicle. Some people might rent an ECV because they are in horrible shape, some rent an ECV because they can walk, but not the distances required at WDW, and some rent an ECV because they can't walk at all. WDW was not created only for those who are physically able to maneuver the parks - just ask Give Kids the World. Using a mobility aid at WDW is not the same as using an ATV on a mountain. You do not destroy any part of WDW by using an ECV or wheelchair. Some people might think using one means they are entitled to plow over anyone in their path, but others are just grateful that the mobility aid gives them the opportunity to get to enjoy WDW with their family. Using your mountain analogy, there are plenty of people who think that because they can run up the mountain they have the right to knock down slower hikers and yell at them for being in their way. Like I said before, stupid doesn't discriminate.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Why, then, is it not a violation of the ADA to have to provide proof and have a doctor's prescription to have a handicapped parking permit?

I don't know where you live, but here you don't need a "doctor's prescription" to have a handicapped parking permit . You get an application from the RMV, complete the personal information, and bring it to your physician, who - ideally knowing your medical history - completes the medical portion.

Then it gets sent to the RMV, where a determination is made as to whether the applicant qualifies for the HP plate/placard.

But you're comparing a parking space legally designated, designed, and located solely to get the eligible person out of the flow of vehicular traffic as quickly and safely as possible, to the ability to use a mobility assistance device in public.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Sad to see nobody has posted about the boy.

When we left the area they were calling the paramedics. Sorry I forget who asked that.

Only because, apparently, nobody who's read this thread has any actual knowledge of what happened. You could try the Orlando Sentinel website.

 

[It'sWDW4me]

Lets look at it a slightly different way, you have a pristine trail up into the mountains, undisturbed natures accessible only on the trail that is rather steep.... Many people in shape use the trail and enjoy the peaceful splendor... Now along comes a bunch of people that aren't in shape and can't climb up the trail to see the view, so they decide to bring ATVs so they can barrel up the trail... the result will be destruction of the trail, dangers for the people walking the trail and wildlife vanishing from the area because of the constant sounds of ATVs... Is that okay with you? I would suggest that people need to accept their limitations and not encroach on others pleasures thoughtlessly. And ECV at Disney is like the ATV on a mountain, it might allow some to do something easier than they otherwise could, but it takes away from others in the process. While you mom may use an ECV, she could also simply go slower, take more time to do things and skip the ECV... or if she is in such horrible shape that she can't do that, well maybe she isn't fit to enjoy WDW and shouldn't go there. If I wasn't in shape to climb up the mountain I wouldn't feel it was my right to bring and ATV along and blast up it knocking everyone out of the way... as we get older there are things we simply are no longer able to do. At some point everyone will reach a point where no matter how much you like Disney or any other activity, you simply will not be able to do it anymore.... if your lucky that time wont happen until you are very old.... would you support allowing motorized hospital beds to push through for those that were bed ridden and couldn't be placed in a wheel chair or scooter?

SERIOUSLY?!?!?!? Unbelievable.

By your post, you must be a fit, healthy individual. I sure do hope you remain so until your dying day so that you will be "allowed" to enjoy everything there is in this world.

 

[DizBelle]

I don't know where you live, but here you don't need a "doctor's prescription" to have a handicapped parking permit . You get an application from the RMV, complete the personal information, and bring it to your physician, who - ideally knowing your medical history - completes the medical portion.

Then it gets sent to the RMV, where a determination is made as to whether the applicant qualifies for the HP plate/placard.

But you're comparing a parking space legally designated, designed, and located solely to get the eligible person out of the flow of vehicular traffic as quickly and safely as possible, to the ability to use a mobility assistance device in public.

Ok, not a "prescription" per se. But a doctor has to give the "ok" for a person to get a handicapped parking permit.

The point is, how is requiring proof that you need one (which is why you have to go to the doctor to fill out the medical portion of the form) not a violation of the ADA?

 

[kaytieeldr]

Lets look at it a slightly different way, you have a pristine trail up into the mountains, undisturbed natures accessible only on the trail that is rather steep.... Many people in shape use the trail and enjoy the peaceful splendor... Now along comes a bunch of people that aren't in shape and can't climb up the trail to see the view, so they decide to bring ATVs so they can barrel up the trail... the result will be destruction of the trail, dangers for the people walking the trail and wildlife vanishing from the area because of the constant sounds of ATVs... Is that okay with you? I would suggest that people need to accept their limitations and not encroach on others pleasures thoughtlessly. And ECV at Disney is like the ATV on a mountain, it might allow some to do something easier than they otherwise could, but it takes away from others in the process.

Do you actually believe what you say? Using any mobility assistance device to tour a theme park doesnt in any way compare to destroying nature and 'scaring away' wildlife in the mountains on ATVs. Nobody is destroying anything at WDW by using a battery-powered ECV. Nobody is using up precious, non-renewable resources or taking away others' ability to enjoy the parks (unlike self-centered message board posters ).

thomas998 - DON'T get old!

 

[tiff211]

Chiming in late here but I rented an ECV our last visit in '08 for my grandmother who was 84 and I was a nervous wreck. She didn't like being at that height and not being able to manuever easy through the crowd. Her answer was to go faster (from the turtle to the bunny). I would put it right back, and tell her we would wait for her as long as it takes. Its not the ECV's, its the rude people and people who don't follow the rules. People complaining that she was going to slow would make her increase the speed. I would say loudly enough for them to hear, "don't go any faster, they can wait or go around. You are 84, nothing you do should be fast." I would always walk really close to her and if I saw her getting close to someone, I would grab it to stop it. Those things don't stop on a dime, they do a rolling stop. She banged into my ankle in line for the haunted mansion because a family behind her was complaining about the gap in line ahead of her so she flipped it to bunny and ran right into me. I looked down and my white sock turned red. I just remember thinking I was so glad it was me and not my girls or someone else. That was definitely a stressful trip. I do think a ecv lane would be wonderful but not sure how realistic. I don't think they should be banned, there is now way my grandmother could have done her 1st trip without one!

 

[Tuffcookie]

Chiming in late here but I rented an ECV our last visit in '08 for my grandmother who was 84 and I was a nervous wreck. She didn't like being at that height and not being able to manuever easy through the crowd. Her answer was to go faster (from the turtle to the bunny). I would put it right back, and tell her we would wait for her as long as it takes. Its not the ECV's, its the rude people and people who don't follow the rules. People complaining that she was going to slow would make her increase the speed. I would say loudly enough for them to hear, "don't go any faster, they can wait or go around. You are 84, nothing you do should be fast." I would always walk really close to her and if I saw her getting close to someone, I would grab it to stop it. Those things don't stop on a dime, they do a rolling stop. She banged into my ankle in line for the haunted mansion because a family behind her was complaining about the gap in line ahead of her so she flipped it to bunny and ran right into me. I looked down and my white sock turned red. I just remember thinking I was so glad it was me and not my girls or someone else. That was definitely a stressful trip. I do think a ecv lane would be wonderful but not sure how realistic. I don't think they should be banned, there is now way my grandmother could have done her 1st trip without one!

On the 2 times I took my DM with us, she saw those ECVs and thought she might like one of those. There is no way I would have permitted that! I could just see her running into someone. I got her a wheelchair and pushed her around the parks. It was tiring but much less stressful!

TC

 

[tiff211]

On the 2 times I took my DM with us, she saw those ECVs and thought she might like one of those. There is no way I would have permitted that! I could just see her running into someone. I got her a wheelchair and pushed her around the parks. It was tiring but much less stressful!

TC

There was no way I could have done that. I had 3 girls 2, 4, and 6 with me. And my grandmother would never give up that independence. She walks and takes the bus everywhere at age 87.

 

[crashbb]

Ok, not a "prescription" per se. But a doctor has to give the "ok" for a person to get a handicapped parking permit.

The point is, how is requiring proof that you need one (which is why you have to go to the doctor to fill out the medical portion of the form) not a violation of the ADA?

The "official" difference (well a paraphase of it) is that places can require "proof" if it is to get something that others cannot get, but not if it is to allow people to do what others can already do.

So, for example, if somewhere offers free entry to those with disabilities, they can ask for proof of said disabilities. Or (as happens in Canada), if an airline or train must provide a free seat to a companion, they can require proof that the companion is needed. Those without disabilities do not get free entry or a free seat, so the person with a disability is getting something that others cannot get.

On the other hand, those without a disability can walk around WDW as they wish and an ECV is simply allowing those with a disability to do the same thing (arguments about wheelchairs versus ECVs notwithstanding), so WDW cannot ask for proof of disability.

According to the rules, a handicap spot falls under "getting something that others cannot get" and, thus, requiring proof is allowed.

One could argue about the distinction (or what should fall on each side of the distinction), but that is the explanation based on the current rules.