ECV Ran Over Little Boy Thursday Night at Epcot

[jodifla]

Whatever to happened to motorized wheelchairs? Why did ECVs become so popular?

Also, if an ECV owner injures someone, are they not liable just as you'd be in a car accident?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Whatever to happened to motorized wheelchairs? Why did ECVs become so popular?

Also, if an ECV owner injures someone, are they not liable just as you'd be in a car accident?

I would guess comfort.

And sometimes--bulky equipment is cheaper than getting something more sleek and lightweight.

And folks would be less inclined to steal a big ol' ECV and load it into their car or something. (Not that they'd get away with taking it out the gate to begin with at Disney.)

Those are just my guesses.

 

[Eeyore5]

Whatever to happened to motorized wheelchairs? Why did ECVs become so popular?

Also, if an ECV owner injures someone, are they not liable just as you'd be in a car accident?

Someone like me isn't eligible for an electric wheelchair. It would be a waste of insurance funds. I only need an ECV on for things like Disney, not everyday. Motorized wheelchairs are much harder to use then they look. If you don't use one daily, you are not able to rent one for Disney. This is a good thing since they are much more difficult then to control an ECV. Someone using it day in and day out will master it. But novices would be scary at Disney.

As for liability, I would guess if you could prove negligence, there might be a case. The person I hit stepped in front of me. He actually walked into the front of my ECV when stepping in front of me, so that was not my fault. I had many near misses because of people cutting me off. Other guests a few times encouraged me to run the next person who cut me off over.

 

[LuvsDragonflies]

Can't there be some kind of bumper put on the ECV's so if they hit an object it automatically stops?

 

[tigercat]

I am okay on a normal basis but there is no way I can do Disney without an ECV. Every visit I try but because of the degeneration in my back and my fibromyalgia there is no way I can do it, I end up in pain. They do not go very fast, my family is always having to wait for me. The problem is that people go around me and then go right in front of me and stop. I keep thinking that to go around me they had to have seen me and figured out that I need time to stop. As well some of the lines the EVC goes into the regular line. I have no problem going in the regular line but if I try to leave a little room for the people in front of me the people behind me try hard to get in front of me and stop. I am always trying to look around and watch people because they don't see me and walk right across the front of me. It is like I don't exist. I actually hate using one because of this.
tigercat

 

[kaytieeldr]

I think there should be seperate, roped off lanes for ECV's only, like a bike lane.This would solve the problem for both groups. No kids getting mown down by ECV's and no one jumppingin front of an ECV.

I don't know about banning them but they should have a seperate lane of traffic that the ECV's have to remain in and not let them ride where people are walking. They should not be there motoring along right with people who are walking! They should also have them set to much much slower speed-perhaps if they were set to "crawl" the people would be able to stop in time!

Two problems, just off the top of my head. First, if you have these paths, how/where do the guests on wheels then access the various attractions, stores, restaurants, bathrooms...without separate branch paths?

Second, it doesn't work. The Land already has a wheelchair path. It's one of three walkways in/out of the building: the one on the right is the entrance for guests on foot, the one on the left is the exit, and the one to the immediate right of that is the clearly marked wheelchair ramp.

It doesn't stop people from walking up or down it, sometimes several abreast; or from getting annoyed when they encounter a guest on wheels.

 

[nuttylawprofessor]

This is getting nasty over difference of opinion and lack of understanding of others' needs. To say ECVs should be banned is like saying small children should be banned from the parks.

Yes, there are people who abuse ECVs ranging from those who are just plain lazy to those who have no sense of responsibility. There are also those walk right in front of them (as well as other pedestrians) who either think they're more important or just aren't paying to attention to the area around them.
Wheelchairs and strollers are just as dangerous as ECVs when people don't care or pay attention.

Snip

I'm sorry, but an ECV will do far more damage than a stroller 99% of the time. The ECV is heavier and carries far more force than an ordinary stroller. The wheelchair is somewhere between the stroller and ECV for force and damage.

Even experienced scooter drivers can cause serious crashes and injuries. My father has a scooter, and he wiped out my son in the Orlando airport when he got confused and hit the accelerator the wrong way.

My spouse and I have joked about "ambulatory week" -- a special week where each park has one wheel-free day. No strollers, no wheelchairs, no ECVs. It's only a joke, but it comes from real frustrations from being clipped and rammed by others.

Maybe things would improve if Disney made out accident reports for these incidents and people were informed that they ARE liable for any injuries they cause while driving. Hmmm... sounds like a good fact pattern for an exam question....

 

[kaytieeldr]

You need a licence to drive a car or a motorcycle. Why is it unreasonable to require a licence to drive an ECV in public? If that were to pass into legislation, then any person (able-bodied or physically challenged) would need to take a test to drive an ECV.

An ECV isn't a motor vehicle, it's a motorized vehicle. You'd need to license power chairs, electric scooters, etc., as well. I don't know where you live, or what the procedure is for Federal laws (and they taught Civics when I was in school!) but in my state, all you need to do to get a bill introduced is ask your legislator to file it.

 

[DisMN]

Those that say Disney can't make any kind of accomodations for scooter paths that may only be because they haven't tried. Remember, the scooter problem is a relatively new problem. When the Disney parks were built they clearly had no idea that scooters would some day take over the pathways but here you are.

You know how they tape off areas all along the edge so people can watch the parades? Take that same system and use it to create paths for motorized vehicles. On each side of the path. Scooters would have to travel one direction in one lane and the other direction in the other lane. LOL

I think the problem with scooters and strollers is how hidden they are in a crowd. Several years ago I saw a really neat childs stroller with the seat a couple of feet higher than they normally are. The childs head was about adult waist level or a bit higher. The little guy was no longer at butt level and was clearly happier and able to be seen by others. Very easy to avoid his stroller. Would scooters benefit from a redesign I wonder?

I just wonder what the solution is. We're simply going to see more and more of them in the parks so the powers that be should really consider dealing with the issue now before it does get worse.

 

[kaytieeldr]

So here is a thought:

In order to rent an ECV, you need to have a dr's prescription or a disability card or placard for your car. Then the people who need them can get them and the others won't. (I'm sure the rental company would hate this as it would stifle their business)

And as far as ADA goes, I believe they only have to make the facilities handicap accessible, they do not have to allow ECVs.

It's got nothing to do with stifling business. The ADA prohibits requiring proof. Plus, there are many people who don't realize they need mobility assistance until after spending a day in a park (or parks), but who aren't likely to use valuable vacation time to visit an unfamiliar doctor for this prescription. Heck, I see a specialist not related at all to my mobility who would write me that prescription!

A disability plate or placard is only valid for parking the motor vehicle being accessed by the person to whom the plate/placard was issued. It doesn't qualify one for anything else, including operating anything wheeled apparatus. Heck, where I live, one eligibility condition is legal blindness! No, the placard stays in your car.

 

[mhsjax]

Now THIS is a good idea. Thank you. It wouldn't stop people's toes fom being smashed, but it would help people from being hit and hurt by them. The ECV that hit my son was going too fast. I get outraged over this.

I agree that we should ban EVC's because some people can't drive them, but how about we ban the idiots that walk right in front of them, like the woman that did it 2 times right in front of DH while holding her child's hand, her own husband told her to get her head out of her but and look where she was going, I heard him do it. She was the one at fault, we were inside and not going fast at all and that STUPID woman never even looked either time. Idiots come in all shapes and sizes and all modes of transportation. Oh I almost forgot, lets ban those strollers that all those moms of little kids use. Like I said, stupid doesn't discriminate.

 

[hambirg]

I'm sorry, but an ECV will do far more damage than a stroller 99% of the time. The ECV is heavier and carries far more force than an ordinary stroller. The wheelchair is somewhere between the stroller and ECV for force and damage.

Even experienced scooter drivers can cause serious crashes and injuries. My father has a scooter, and he wiped out my son in the Orlando airport when he got confused and hit the accelerator the wrong way.

My spouse and I have joked about "ambulatory week" -- a special week where each park has one wheel-free day. No strollers, no wheelchairs, no ECVs. It's only a joke, but it comes from real frustrations from being clipped and rammed by others.

Maybe things would improve if Disney made out accident reports for these incidents and people were informed that they ARE liable for any injuries they cause while driving. Hmmm... sounds like a good fact pattern for an exam question....

This is my thought as well. Maybe when they start getting sued they will slow down. :

I don't really know about the situation at WDW, but I have plenty of experience with people in ECVs. Yes, some of them are just terrible drivers. When I drove ADA transport, I would stand on the ground at the back of the ramp when they were unloading and pray that they wouldn't kill me and the strap would hold when they inevitably barreled into it. There were the ones who couldn't drive straight and would ram into the wall about every 10ft. There were the ones who modified their scooters so they could go fast like a go-cart and you had to run like crazy and you still couldn't keep up.

Just so I'm clear, I do have empathy for those in ECVs. I pushed a stroller at WDW and DL for many years. I do know about how people can step right in front of you. BUT I think there are also the bad ECV drivers out there too. Maybe if those ones were being held liable, they would slow down and pay attention and stop giving everyone else a bad name.

 

[Lionqueen2]

I'm sorry, but an ECV will do far more damage than a stroller 99% of the time. The ECV is heavier and carries far more force than an ordinary stroller. The wheelchair is somewhere between the stroller and ECV for force and damage.

Even experienced scooter drivers can cause serious crashes and injuries. My father has a scooter, and he wiped out my son in the Orlando airport when he got confused and hit the accelerator the wrong way.

My spouse and I have joked about "ambulatory week" -- a special week where each park has one wheel-free day. No strollers, no wheelchairs, no ECVs. It's only a joke, but it comes from real frustrations from being clipped and rammed by others.

Maybe things would improve if Disney made out accident reports for these incidents and people were informed that they ARE liable for any injuries they cause while driving. Hmmm... sounds like a good fact pattern for an exam question....

I think this is something many ECV drivers don't think about, but they do need to be made aware of this issue when renting one.

Not long ago, my DH and I needed to rescue our little grandson from an ECV whose driver lost control while letting a child (about 7 years old) sit in her lap and help drive. The child hit the accelerator and the woman, who looked like the child's grandmother, couldn't stop the vehicle. Fortunately, we were able to move and get out grandson's carriage out of the way. The woman and her child rider drove into and through a hedge at one of the resorts, mowed it down landed in a bed of flowers which the ECV tore up.

I can't think of how many times in the parks I've seen CMs stop folks on ECVs and remind them that they cannot ride with children in their laps and I've also noticed the amount of 'flak' some ECV riders give the CMs who try to correct the situation. Just because someone needs help getting around doesn't give them license to create hazardous situation for others.

My heart goes out to anyone who is unable to walk and needs assistance moving and I am always willing to hold doors or help them any way possible. However, I have no sympathy for someone who abuses the situation and puts other at risk for injury.

 

[kamik86]

I haven't read the entire thread. But my thoughts are:

1) ECVs should all have to have one of those flags on them... sometimes in a crowd its hard to see them until they are right next to you.

2) To rent and ECV or get in with one they should have a little area that you have to be able to drive though... like a mini test. Logistically it would be a pain, but possible. I think places 100% should be able to ban an ECV if the driver can't drive it through something like this. (when my mom was there we pushed her in a wheel chair, it sucked, I hated it but we did because if we got her an ECV it would have sucked much worse when she kept running into my husband and I, and probably everyone else becasue she has never rode one before and... well I have seen some of the things she has done in a car and she has been driving those for over 40 years.

 

[LuvsDragonflies]

Just throwing out to the ECV drivers, other than WDW we usually have little to no experience with these things. So as a walker, you aren't really used to having the keep an eye out for the scooters. I'm not saying that some people don't purposely walk in front of them, just that for a lot of people it's just something they don't deal with.

Let's face it, WDW probably is the scooter capitol of the world. They should only be allowed to go as fast as a person can walk and should have actual brakes rather than the release and stop system they have now.

 

[PeterPan09]

Someone mentioned earlier about crossing guards....as a joke, perhaps.

I just wanted to comment--after 2 full marathons at Disney--one thing is certain...even with CM's guarding walkways to keep runners safe and allowing folks to pass when it is safe--guests do not like to listen. They cannot have their plans held up just so that someone can not be injured or not cause injury to others.

While it would be a decent idea to have designated lanes--that will last all of 2 seconds because there are guests who just don't care and will ignore signage because they must get to Expedition Everest NOW.

(Yes--jerky guests crossed in my path and I had to be evasive to avoid collision which would have injured ME and them. But at least they made their fast pass time 15 seconds sooner.)

This is the real problem. I'm beginning to believe that nearly every person at Disney is convinced that the entire park has been placed there JUST FOR THEM. All these other people are merely obstacles placed in the way of their good time.

The other thing...what the heck happened to compassion in this country?? Holy smoke, I have read and heard more rotten things said about "everybody else that isn't me" lately than I can remember. As a group, we seem to have lost the ability to share anything or to even think about envisioning what someone else might be dealing with in their life.

Take a step back, look at your blessings and be thankful for them! Be thankful that you are able to afford a trip to Disney in this economy! Be thankful that you have the ability to get around on your own! Be thankful that someone invented the ECV so you could do things you never could before! Be thankful that your kids are grown and you don't have to watch them every second. Be thankful that your kids are young and still think it's ok to hold Mom and Dad's hand in the parks, or that you can still hold them in your arms. Look around you at the other people who are there to enjoy the same things you are and be thankful for Walt and all the other people who made it all happen so you could all be there.

Maybe if we all thought about how lucky we really are, we might start to treat each other a little better.

 

[maxiesmom]

Those that say Disney can't make any kind of accomodations for scooter paths that may only be because they haven't tried. Remember, the scooter problem is a relatively new problem. When the Disney parks were built they clearly had no idea that scooters would some day take over the pathways but here you are.

You know how they tape off areas all along the edge so people can watch the parades? Take that same system and use it to create paths for motorized vehicles. On each side of the path. Scooters would have to travel one direction in one lane and the other direction in the other lane. LOL

I think the problem with scooters and strollers is how hidden they are in a crowd. Several years ago I saw a really neat childs stroller with the seat a couple of feet higher than they normally are. The childs head was about adult waist level or a bit higher. The little guy was no longer at butt level and was clearly happier and able to be seen by others. Very easy to avoid his stroller. Would scooters benefit from a redesign I wonder?

I just wonder what the solution is. We're simply going to see more and more of them in the parks so the powers that be should really consider dealing with the issue now before it does get worse.

Again, how would those pathways work with all of the stores and shops? You would have to widen every entryway in order to have seperate entry lanes into the shops. And how on earth would you ensure people stayed in the proper lane? And what about families who have one member on a scooter. Would they walk in the lane with their family member on the scooter, and be subject to getting run over by other scooter using guests, or would they not be allowed to walk with their own family member?

The idea of having seperate lanes would never work. And would probably cause even more chaos and detract from the parks.

 

[Conservative Hippie]

Two problems, just off the top of my head. First, if you have these paths, how/where do the guests on wheels then access the various attractions, stores, restaurants, bathrooms...without separate branch paths?

Second, it doesn't work. The Land already has a wheelchair path. It's one of three walkways in/out of the building: the one on the right is the entrance for guests on foot, the one on the left is the exit, and the one to the immediate right of that is the clearly marked wheelchair ramp.

It doesn't stop people from walking up or down it, sometimes several abreast; or from getting annoyed when they encounter a guest on wheels.

Exactly. I have seen my dad and other guests in wheelchairs and ECVs try to use the wheelchair path at The Land, only to get stuck in a crowd of obliviot pedestrians.

This is the real problem. I'm beginning to believe that nearly every person at Disney is convinced that the entire park has been placed there JUST FOR THEM. All these other people are merely obstacles placed in the way of their good time.

The other thing...what the heck happened to compassion in this country?? Holy smoke, I have read and heard more rotten things said about "everybody else that isn't me" lately than I can remember. As a group, we seem to have lost the ability to share anything or to even think about envisioning what someone else might be dealing with in their life.

Take a step back, look at your blessings and be thankful for them! Be thankful that you are able to afford a trip to Disney in this economy! Be thankful that you have the ability to get around on your own! Be thankful that someone invented the ECV so you could do things you never could before! Be thankful that your kids are grown and you don't have to watch them every second. Be thankful that your kids are young and still think it's ok to hold Mom and Dad's hand in the parks, or that you can still hold them in your arms. Look around you at the other people who are there to enjoy the same things you are and be thankful for Walt and all the other people who made it all happen so you could all be there.

Maybe if we all thought about how lucky we really are, we might start to treat each other a little better.

Exactly. Stupid doesn't discriminate. For every one rude and clueless ECV driver who will run over anyone, there are 5 rude and clueless pedestrians who will step out in front of an ECV, wheelchair, or stroller and stop - and then whine and yell because they were hit. What a wonderful place WDW would be if every single guest practiced kindness and everyone was polite to each other!

 

[mrsdon]

Everyone the boy was not moving. He was in front of his Mom while waiting for her bag to be checked.
He wasn't running around like a crazy man.

He was a little boy that was hit from behind by an ECV with a very large woman driving it. The woman's weight plus the weight of the ECV I'm sure did some major damage.
She plowed into him, I'm sure not on purpose.

I don't know if it was a Disney rental or not. I do know it was very large. Headlights, baskets loaded down with items.

He was hurt and we were looking for some feed back from a friend or family member.

If he was in line to get the bag checked then it was NOT a Disney ECV
The Disney ECV's are not pemitted outside the gates of the pare.
THe Disney ECV"s also can not go more than 2 miles an hour and thats if you are really thin.
I say this becasue I work at the ecv rental area
The CMs in my area make sure the guest knows how to operate the machine before the guest leaves the area

 

[DizBelle]

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that that would violate the ADA.

The general gist of the ADA (as it pertains to this) is that modifications must be made to allow someone with a disability to enjoy the park (or whatever) in an equal way to someone without a disability AND that the park (or whatever) cannot ask for proof of said disability.

So, if someone cannot walk (or says that they cannot walk), an ECV would be the appropriate modification and WDW cannot ask for proof of need.

Nor can they force people to take a test to use the ECV (though I do agree that it would help reduce accidents). The analogy to driving a car (and needing a test for it) fails because everyone needs to take a test to drive a car. Only ECV drivers would need to take a test to enter WDW, since they cannot enter without an ECV (or, rather, would not be able to do anything at WDW without an ECV) and would be forced to take the test to use an ECV.

Why, then, is it not a violation of the ADA to have to provide proof and have a doctor's prescription to have a handicapped parking permit?