Dying and end of life quality.

[4greatboys]

This is exactly everyone should take care of their own paperwork. Have your living will and all other papers in order. Then everything will be carried out exactly how you want it.
When it comes to loved ones when the time comes usually your head tells you what's right but in your heart you always want to do all you can to "save" somone even when it's not the best thing for them.

 

[NMAmy]

could you respect a loved ones request to not medically prolong their life?

I could and I have. My dad had been pretty ill for a long time and used to tease that he was going to have DNR tattooed on his chest just to make sure anyone coming at him with the defibrillator paddles would see it. Even without medical interference except for comfort measures, it took him a long time to die in a lot of pain. I wish it could have been easier for him.

My mother has also told me that she doesn't want any heroic measures. I have a medical POA for her but she made it clear during her last illness that she wasn't sure my sisters would be able to let her go when the time came. I asked her to please have that discussion with them NOW instead of making me into the bad guy later.

 

[minkydog]

I am now 54. Almost 4 years ago, I went through 6 months of chemotherapy for cancer to increase my chances that it would not return. I had a terrible time on chemo, no life whatsoever for those 6 months and it only increased my odds by a small percentage.

A few months ago, I was told I had cancer again. I did not want to even discuss chemotherapy. Unless they can tell me that it will cure me, I'm not interested in living through that again if it increases my chances by only 25%, yada yada.

Trust me, I don't want to die. But I don't want to live where I have to take so much nausea medication that all I can do is lay there and stare at the ceiling. I've always thought quality of life was most important; my husband used to feel differently. After seeing me live through that crap, he has changed his mind too. I may live another 20 years and I hope I do, but I'm not doing it with the assistance of chemo or anything that requires me to give up my enjoyment of life.

I know that was a hard decision but I feel exactly the same way. I've seen many persons with cancer nearly killed by their chemo. I think if it were me I would rather have a few months/years less, but of decent quality, than gain a few months/years at the cost of my physical and mental health. I dunno. Just let me make the most of the time I have left, you know?

 

[ilovepcot]

Imo under 70 fight it over 70 don't.

You're very young NOW but in a few years your feelings on this will change. I remember very clearly thinking *70* was death walking.

Many people who enjoy Myrtle Beach and the surrounding vacation area can thank an 84 year old man for some of the nicest hotels and condos they stay in... my dad! Up until age 84 he owned and ran one of the most successful architectural firms in the southeast.

My dad also did some architectural drawings of historical buildings in the southeast to raise money for special projects in his county...a $50,000 contribution! I daresay people his contribution benefited wouldn't care he was over 70.


There are *some* people over age 70 that still have a great deal to contribute and there are many under age 30 who don't. It's all in the particular individual.

 

[islandmum]

My MIL has had her life prolonged by the advance of drugs - she was told she should have died 7 years ago - and we wish she had. She has no life, she lies in her bed, awake for a few hours a day, fed pureed food mostly by a tube, recognises nobody, and has no real existance - let alone a life. And shes still only 65.

Its a living death and has been for years now, the only way she can die would be for them to starve her - which we would never do, its like catch 22.

 

[bumbershoot]

What happens? At the end of life do we get scared and try to hold onto life at all cost?

I believe that at the end of life our families get scared and cause all of that to happen....

 

[stichy]

I believe in quality of life not quanity of life. That's why my mom says I'm not in charge of pulling her plug. My husband is aware of my feelings and I know he would respect my wishes. I would rather die at a hospital then at home. I wouldn't want someone to find me dead on the floor or in bed. I also think it would be harder for my family to deal with knowing I died in the house.

 

[eliza61]

It is very difficult to be a nurse (or any other healthcare provider, for that matter) and watch famiiles put loved ones through huge amounts of agony trying to keep someone alive who should not be kept alive.

Death is a part of life. We in this country need to accept that.

Ironically DD, one of the doctors in the piece says exactly that. Every one dies. Deal with that.

 

[SC Minnie]

This is exactly everyone should take care of their own paperwork. Have your living will and all other papers in order. Then everything will be carried out exactly how you want it.
When it comes to loved ones when the time comes usually your head tells you what's right but in your heart you always want to do all you can to "save" somone even when it's not the best thing for them.

I have a coworker going through this right now with her mother. Her mother had heart surgery 14 weeks ago and has been in ICU since. Last week her doctor called the family in. She is only being kept alive my machines- respirator, dialysis, and blood pressure meds. Her fingers and toes have started 'dying'. The dr said her internal organs are dying as well. The family (her mother, daughter, sisters) is ready to take her off life support but her husband won't yet. He wants to wait at least another week. She has no living will.

 

[doxdogy]

As hard it was not to override what he wanted, I did not go against my father's wishes. When he went back to the hospital and came off the respirator and seemed to improve, he took a turn for the worse. When asked if he wanted to go back on he told them no. When I was asked the same, I basically told them that if he said no, then don't do it. I knew his feelings and I was determined as his daughter to honor his wishes. The most difficult was I was the only child in town and the final decision fell to my shoulders.

It is very difficult to be a nurse (or any other healthcare provider, for that matter) and watch famiiles put loved ones through huge amounts of agony trying to keep someone alive who should not be kept alive.

Death is a part of life. We in this country need to accept that.

 

[SpecialK]

One of the problems we ran into when my dad was failing was trying to get the drs. that were caring for him to be honest. I think they're all so scared of a lawsuit that no one will say "Yes, he's dying. Take him home and let him go peacefully."

We ran into a lot of misinformation and wishy-washy statements that told us nothing. It was very frustrating.

 

[MerMom60_94]

It is very difficult to be a nurse (or any other healthcare provider, for that matter) and watch famiiles put loved ones through huge amounts of agony trying to keep someone alive who should not be kept alive.

Death is a part of life. We in this country need to accept that.

One of the problems we ran into when my dad was failing was trying to get the drs. that were caring for him to be honest. I think they're all so scared of a lawsuit that no one will say "Yes, he's dying. Take him home and let him go peacefully."

We ran into a lot of misinformation and wishy-washy statements that told us nothing. It was very frustrating.

I was just about to come on here and say the same thing as SpecialK. I think it is probably more clear to someone who is in a medical role when somebody is dying than it is family members who have no medical knowledge. Up until my father, I had never been close to anyone who was dying. You have to understand, he had diabetes for nearly 50 years and in that time had many health issues where we thought he was at the end and he would bounce back. We used to tease him about being like a cat with nine lives. So, when he went into the hospital with gangrene and the doctors wanted to amputate his leg, but had to put him on dialysis first, we thought it would be life changing and we would have to reassess his living situation but we had no idea it was the beginning of the end. It took three months for him to die a little piece at a time. For as long as he remained coherent he told us in no uncertain terms he wanted to continue living. The doctors would talk to us about rehab and about nursing homes but nobody would come out and say there was no hope. I think it is much easier looking back to know that he was dying. At the time though, we were hopeful right up until the last couple of weeks.

I think, obviously, the ideal is to die peacefully and in your own bed. I think realistically though, it's more complicated than that.

 

[ford family]

You're very young NOW but in a few years your feelings on this will change. I remember very clearly thinking *70* was death walking.

Many people who enjoy Myrtle Beach and the surrounding vacation area can thank an 84 year old man for some of the nicest hotels and condos they stay in... my dad! Up until age 84 he owned and ran one of the most successful architectural firms in the southeast.

My dad also did some architectural drawings of historical buildings in the southeast to raise money for special projects in his county...a $50,000 contribution! I daresay people his contribution benefited wouldn't care he was over 70.


There are *some* people over age 70 that still have a great deal to contribute and there are many under age 30 who don't. It's all in the particular individual.

IMO you have misinterpreted the original statement.
I believe that what they meant is that if you succumb to a life threatening illness before the age of 70 then you should do all you can to fight it. If, however, you have passed the age of 70 then you may well consider the "quality rather than quantity" issue and think twice about subjecting yourself to painful or debilitating treatment that probably wouldn't work anyway.
In countries with public health services this age cut off or one similar, is often the norm anyway, with expensive life prolonging treatments being used only on the least elderly.
In the US you have a system where every and any treatment is tried regardless of effectiveness because it can be charged for. People with money or uncapped health insurance will be "persuaded" of the merits of the treatment for the enrichment of the medical profession.
Nobody is saying anything detrimental about people over the age of 70 who are in good health so your father's contribution, whilst no doubt wonderful, is irrelevant to the discussion, as are your derogatory comments about people under 30.

ford family

 

[ford family]

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[Disney Doll]

This is exactly everyone should take care of their own paperwork. Have your living will and all other papers in order. Then everything will be carried out exactly how you want it.

Not necessarily.
If your family is against the DNR, then they can override your paperwork.

 

[ilovepcot]

Nobody is saying anything detrimental about people over the age of 70 who are in good health so your father's contribution, whilst no doubt wonderful, is irrelevant to the discussion, as are your derogatory comments about people under 30.ford family

You're absolutely right! This dribble about my father is totally irrelevant to the conversation here. My father, however, died 3 days ago and it gave me a bit of comfort to share some of his contributions after age 70. I'm so sorry. Will you forgive me?

 

[pigletgirl]

Depends on the condition. If its a chronic situation and you're only prolonging their life by using machines its time to consider other options. If its an acute event and they are mid-age or younger fight it with whatever you get.

Sometimes though you really dont' have the choice.

 

[eliza61]

We ran into a lot of misinformation and wishy-washy statements that told us nothing. It was very frustrating.

One of the problems I think we have is that we as a country really have a mind set of "at any cost". We tend to think that as long as we have the technological know how, we can some how "perserve" life.

I remember a couple of years ago I took my dad to the doctor for his annual physical and the doctor told my father maybe he should lay off the booze. Know he generally had 1 drink a day after dinner. My father said "what the hell for"?. He didn't mean to be smart but his point was at 83 what was quitting going to do? give him 2 or 3 years extra? He was more of the "let me enjoy my steak, Jack Daniels, yankees and grandkid" kind of guy.

I think nowadays many icu doctors do try to give an honest assessment but many people don't want to hear it. Like it's some kind of failure if we don't try every thing humanely possible.

 

[daannzzz]

I was taking care of my Aunt who was only 65. She had possible Diabetes, had fallen and had a hematoma that caused her to have a dropped foot and she kept getting worse. They finally diagnosed her with Vasculitis and a rare form of it as well. I don't think they knew a whole lot about it. She was in the hospital for weeks and then in a convelescent hospital. She wa sin loads of pain and discomfort and hated everything. Luckily during this time we took care of all the legal stuff as well as end of life details. Her insurance ran out and she went on medicare and was using stay at home care for a month when she got ill again. At the hospital the doctors gave me a choice. They could keep her comfortable which included lots of morphine but then would not be able to work on her and she would pass away OR they aggressively treat her to the best of her ability which would involve large amounts of pain and continuing convelescent care and the problem would return over and over. I thought it would be easy when the time came to make the decision and it was but it was very hard to say the words. I know she did not want to continue living that way so I told them to discontinue treatment. I would hope everyone would do the same for me.

 

[JoiseyMom]

DH and I both have living wills. So does my MIL, not sure about FIL. We do not want to live on machines.

My brother and I had this issue 2 years ago with our oldest brother. He was only 56, but was ill. He had been living in a nursing home, and he hadn't taken the proper care of himself prior to that. He had a pace maker and was in the hospital due to issues breathing. He was in there for almost a month. They finally took out the tubes, breathing and he was supposed to be getting better. They had to re tube him, and the doctors said, if he can't breathe without the tubes he will have them for the rest of his life. I asked my DS (not the sick one) if our older DS had a living will, and was told no. I said we need to ask him what he wants. He was coherent and could understand us and make decisions. My brother was like...how can you ask that, he is only 56!! Yes, he is only 56, and has to look forward to how many decades in a bed with a feeding tube and a breathing tube!

His joys were watching the Yankees, Rangers, Jets and Giants, and food! I know I wouldn't want to spend years living attached to tubes like that. That is not a quality of life. I brought up how he put his dog down when he was suffering, and was no longer enjoying life, was our brother entitled to anything less?

We discussed with our sick DS and he said he wanted the pace maker turned off and a DNR. My DS was single...no kids...just me and my othter DS. My DS's wife, wasn't happy about the decision, and kept on bugging sick DS, with are you sure you want to do this?? I was ready to hit her, so was her husband. It was so not her decision.

I plan on discussing with our adult children what are wishes are and that we have living wills. A living will can be more important then a regular will!