DVC was Sears but it's become Saks . . . in case you wonder why you're feeling whiplash

[we"reofftoneverland]

OR, they have those vacation houses AND dvc....

We haven’t seen it. Not saying there are not people out there, but we haven’t met them. African safaris are popular too. Couldn’t pay me to do that btw. I much prefer AKV. Lol

 

[.landry]

what is pretty cool about all of the different kinds of folks who own dvc, IRL, all the people i know who own DVC also own second homes.

 

[bobbiwoz]

While working, we owned a second home and DVC. Now our second home is our only home. It only has two baths, but it’s three bedrooms and a loft. I always considered it our very own Grand Villa!

 

[kboo]

I guess I don’t really understand what luxury is then, because RIV fits the bill for me.

This thread is starting to remind me of one of the threads about RIV where people got into all sorts of semantics about why RIV was (or was not) "better" than another DVC resort. tl; dr: it depends on each person's preferences. Shocker.

Have I stayed in more luxurious resorts/hotels? Yes, but they are very different and under different circumstances. For one, most of the places that come to mind have over-the-top service, and that's something that I don't need or expect at WDW, except at V&A.

I mean Disney literally has a whole corporate mantra and training program based on service, called Creating Magic. So, yea, I was pretty surprised when I couldn't get anyone to give me a lei after 30 minutes in the Poly lobby.

RIV's lobby is also unfortunate IMO, and a big departure from current hotel trends (and existing DVC stock), which are heavily utilized lobbies.

I added my quote (that you were responding to) in fuller context. Some of the most luxurious resorts I've stayed have been in Asia, and it's a different level of service. I wouldn't expect that from a Disney CM, but I also wouldn't expect an employee of, say, the Peninsula Bangkok to do some of the things I've seen Disney CMs do without a second thought. For example, I've stayed at island resorts where we've had our own bungalow and our own attendant for the bungalow. They provided fresh cut fruit in the afternoon, folded anything that was left out, anticipated our needs before we could even ask a question, etc etc. I've had luggage repaired overnight (at no cost) when it was damaged by someone else. You aren't even given a room key because you're on a private island.

Edited: ^^ that's not Saks either. I don't know what it is, because I don't shop like that.



OTOH, none of those employees would have bought me a new pair of shoes if some random passerby happened to ruin mine, or just given my kids free snacks or other things just because they were cute. (not saying this happens a lot, but it has happened)

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

what is pretty cool about all of the different kinds of folks who own dvc, IRL, all the people i know who own DVC also own second homes.

While working, we owned a second home and DVC. Now our second home is our only home. It only has two baths, but it’s three bedrooms and a loft. I always considered it our very own Grand Villa!

I think we are talking about different income groups though. I suspect there are plenty of dvc owners who own second homes, but I am not sure I would put them in the wealthy category. Very well off, of course. But this is all a silly discussion. I was just commenting that none of the wealthy we know do dvc, timeshares, or even Disney. And I guess this was just part of the larger discussion about whom Disney is targeting with RIV or nowadays with dvc in general. I think they are targeting upper middle class families, middle class couples or singles, and not necessarily those in the upper income bracket. I also do not think they are looking at middle class families anymore. So I do think they were trying to get to the upper middle class sensibility with RIV, just like GFV. From what I have seen on the internet, I am not sure they succeeded, although I have only seen the model in person. Did not impress me at all. Even with that, I would consider buying, emphasis on consider, if the resale restrictions were not there. I will never buy any dvc with RIV style resale restrictions. I am not interested in timeshares generally. So the more “timeshare” and less unique dvc becomes, the less interesting the entire project is. Just my take.

So just to add: I do not think dvc is going for Saks now, but I am not really sure where I would put them in the department store scale. They are definitely not sears. Maybe I would say they are charging Nordstrom prices but delivering a Macy’s level product, maybe higher than Macy’s sometimes. The Macy’s near us is kind of crappy, honestly.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

I would guess the truly wealthy that are Disney folks would target Golden Oaks, not DVC.

 

[heynowirv]

exactly

 

[Bing Showei]

From the title alone, I could tell this thread was going to be like watching a slow moving train wreck where you know where things are going to go, but you can’t help but watch anyway. It didn’t disappoint.

If Disney required a 230 point buy-in, and offered no financing, I could maybe buy the whole “going for a different market” idea, but the fact that they don’t do either of these things suggests the market they’re more aiming for is the same market they have for years now: the market willing to pay for a Disney timeshare, whatever the reason may be.

 

[DisMomKY]

I like to think I’m “young-ish” at 31. We have 2 small children and just bought DVC-resale at SSR. We have no desire to stay at riviera and the price difference was absurd to us. We got 100 points and are getting another 75 for not much more than 100 would’ve been at riviera. We will be able to stay a week a year in a 1 bd at our favorite resorts with our points. When reflections is done we MAY look at it but only for additional points to only be used there if we love it. We had no draw to Riviera and personally hated CBR so didn’t want the joys of looking at that out of a preferred room. We prefer SSR, OKW and AKL.

 

[Bruggok]

I don't think DVC started as Sears and is becoming Saks. DVC as a whole is not readily comparable to 4/5 star deluxe hotels/resorts abroad or even domestically. VGF/VGC however are AAA 4 diamond and checks off all the 5 star requirements (concierge, decor, childcare, poolside drinks, service, etc). When we evaluate DVC solely within the WDW experience, we can see that all DVC properties are clearly in the deluxe category out of the 3 that Disney uses. None are glorified outside facing motels and all have one or more offerings above the moderate level properties.

That said, I think a lot of unhappiness and angst from people are the results of 1) how our society's standards have changed over the years and 2) how WDW prices have increased far above inflation/median wage. Families used to cram kids into a station wagon for roadtrips and stayed at roadside motels (yay free local calls, pool, and cable TV). WDW used to be affordable for families. Now days, the average stay for the average family is a $100-150/night 2.5-3 star level Holiday Inn/Homewood Suites/Staybridge/Hyatt Place, which has 99% of what most Americans would be happy with (fast wifi, plenty of wall/USB outlets, nice bathroom, comfortable bed, free breakfast/parking, etc). None of my friends/family see value to pay more out of pocket for a 1 star bump to a "nicer" hotel, in which one loses free breakfast/parking, and gain only nicer on site restaurant, room/lobby decor, and in some cases a club lounge). Yet, all DVC and WDW deluxe resorts are multiples of that $100-150 per night rate.

Imagine the same people visiting WDW and staying at DVC or any WDW resort. They gauge value based on how much more they paid per night (vs. their avg stay elsewhere) in return for how much more they're getting (theming, amenities, decor, service, etc). Needless to say, unless if everything they see/touch are in tip top shape and/or they get a healthy dose of pixie dust and friendly interactions from CMs, many will be disappointed. Much of this unhappiness and angst could have been avoided if WDW prices (parks, concessions, lodging) simply did not price things as high as the market could bear.

 

[RamblingMad]

DVC is like buying a new car. The maintenance starts off low and slowly goes up over time. The car starts off good, but it slowly gets less good. But to buy another new one will cost you more than when you bought the first one.

The alternative is to rent a car, where it’s always pretty new. But you have a limited selection. And you have no idea how much rental costs will go up.

If you rent a lot, it might make sense to own. If you don’t, then it’s better to rent.

Both options leave less money in your pocket. And neither generates cash flow.

 

[Arthur2990]

When my OKW and BWV contracts come due I will be in my late 60s. So if the "newer" "fancier" DVC resorts makes it easier to book at my current home resorts I am ok with that.

I would rather shop at Walmart vs Oscar de la Renta anyway.

 

[DisMomKY]

When my OKW and BWV contracts come due I will be in my late 60s. So if the "newer" "fancier" DVC resorts makes it easier to book at my current home resorts I am ok with that.

I would rather shop at Walmart vs Oscar de la Renta anyway.

I get this! We LOVE OKW, SSR, and AKL and hope other poodle want the newer fancier resorts so we can continue to stay at those

 

[TigerInGa]

I visited almost every DVC resort when I was there last week (first trip as a DVC'er) so I could get an idea of where we'd like to stay going foward. I didn't get the "we're going in a new direction" vibe from Riveria (which was beautiful), I got the, "there is a niche for this type of hotel, and this if for that niche". Nothing wrong with that. Most of the resorts I visited all fit a different need / want and target market. I went thinking SSR and OKW were going to be trailer parks based on what you read. I left feeling like they were mostly intended for folks in the Southeast who drive to WDW, where having close access to a vehicle is important, and us Southerners like being "spread out". I thought the Wilderness Lodge resorts were absolutely beautiful, but I would never stay there as there are literally hundreds of places here in North Georgia and Tennessee with a very similar theme (I want somthing different at WDW), but I can see how someone from the big city would absolutely love these resorts. Poly seemed intended for folks who spend very little time in their rooms (studios mostly), the VGF seemed geared towards those who will be in the resort more. I didn't care for BLT, as it seemed like a hotel to me, but everyone else in my party loved the "futuristic" theme.

Point being, not every resort was built with me in mind, a few were built with me in mind. The others are just as awesome through someone else's eyes and circumstances. If they made every resort to suit me, then that would be incredibly boring for most.

 

[jerseyduke]

It’s nothing to do with making it more expensive and points intensive to appeal to a market, it’s called pushing the envelope on what they can charge, to make as much profit as possible.

Exactly. New Management, and new management has to be more profitable than the old. Probably the main reason for the 2020 point charts. Lock off premium = more rooms to be rented out for cash, etc, etc,

Disney will be around longer than Saks

 

[acebatonfan]

I might be that "target audience" Disney is looking at: younger with more relative disposable income (I am living with family while I pay off school loans). I think the younger generations are definitely more picky with how they spend their money, especially when many of us are still dealing with the massive student loan bubbles. One of the reasons why I didn't book in Rivera is because of how overpriced it seemed point-wise, at least for my lifestyle and trip plans (I am taking my family to Disney this year with my DVC points). Why would I pay so many points for a half-studio when I could spend a little more upfront and get the points for a studio in a more convenient hotel for my touring plans? It's going to be hard to get me away from my BLT though, especially when I definitely know I am going to get my money's worth out of that contract within a few stays.

 

[amcnj]

OKW was the original and naturally was offered at a much lower price back then than new resorts are sold for today. So maybe at the price point they were dealing with, they made them as luxurious as possible while still allowing them to make the profit desired. The new resorts go for much higher prices. So if newer resorts are more luxurious, as some here are claiming, it might be due to the increased revenue they receive, due to pricing, smaller room sizes and higher reservation points.

It will be interesting to see what is done with OKW after current ownership expires. Will it just be resold at a higher price? Will the pricing be the same as that of other resorts or will park proximity still make a difference? Will changes be made, such as reducing the size of units, adding more luxurious features some say are currently lacking, or even building something like a Skyliner Route?

 

[Maistre Gracey]

I might be that "target audience" Disney is looking at: younger with more relative disposable income (I am living with family while I pay off school loans). I think the younger generations are definitely more picky with how they spend their money, especially when many of us are still dealing with the massive student loan bubbles. One of the reasons why I didn't book in Rivera is because of how overpriced it seemed point-wise, at least for my lifestyle and trip plans (I am taking my family to Disney this year with my DVC points). Why would I pay so many points for a half-studio when I could spend a little more upfront and get the points for a studio in a more convenient hotel for my touring plans? It's going to be hard to get me away from my BLT though, especially when I definitely know I am going to get my money's worth out of that contract within a few stays.

With massive student loans that forces you to live with family, how do you have all sorts of disposable income??

Im just curious to know if I did something wrong in my younger years, seeing as though I used my disposable income to get an apartment.

 

[acebatonfan]

With massive student loans that forces you to live with family, how do you have all sorts of disposable income??

Im just curious to know if I did something wrong in my younger years, seeing as though I used my disposable income to get an apartment.

Live at home now, more disposable income compared to if I was living on my own. Surprisingly, my DVC contract was a little bit less than my school loans, so I’m planning on getting
both massively paid for within the next year or two (2/3 of my school loans are done, so now I’m focusing on getting the dvc principle low). Do it now when I’m living at home and helping out (especially when my grandmother needs sone close watching and med managing...). Everyone prioritizes differently

I did the math, and it’s cheaper for me to buy dvc now than to pay for yearly or even every-other-year trips to Disney world. My family loves that they are more than welcome to come with me, which saves them quite a bit (we are all Disney nerds). I’d honestly see my money go here than to get an apartment a little bit sooner

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Live at home now, more disposable income compared to if I was living on my own. Surprisingly, my DVC contract was a little bit less than my school loans, so I’m planning on getting
both massively paid for within the next year or two (2/3 of my school loans are done, so now I’m focusing on getting the dvc principle low). Do it now when I’m living at home and helping out (especially when my grandmother needs sone close watching and med managing...). Everyone prioritizes differently

I did the math, and it’s cheaper for me to buy dvc now than to pay for yearly or even every-other-year trips to Disney world. My family loves that they are more than welcome to come with me, which saves them quite a bit (we are all Disney nerds). I’d honestly see my money go here than to get an apartment a little bit sooner

Indeed the accounting can be done in many ways, and one of those ways is to justify your position.
Regardless, if you have enough disposable money for Disney to *somehow* target you, than at least if it were me, my first thing to do with that disposable money is move out.
If I was truly helping my grandmother with that money, it would no longer be disposable income.