DVC versus buying a Villa

[MJ6987]

What are the advantages of DVC over buying a Villa near WDW, and vice versa?

I was going to suggest some, like the better resale value (?) and non-expiry of a Villa, but I realised that I don't know enough about either option to comment sensibly.

 

[disneynutz]

The biggest difference that I can think of is that with the DVC, you are staying on property, immersed in Disney. For our family, that is what Disney vacations are all about.

Bill

 

[bwvBound]

I agree with Bill on this one; DVC is all about "location, location, location." When I book DVC, I'm staying on property and don't need a rental car. No car? Joy!

Some might also point out that DVC's point system as an advantage over "weeks" systems. While not entirely unique in the industry, it is delightful to be able to choose: any size unit, any length of stay, any arrival day!

Possible advantages of the "vice-versa" situation, owning non-DVC timeshare:

• The non-DVC timeshare will likely have a lower buy-in cost, especially on the resale market. Some non-DVC timeshare might be free ($0.00) to acquire. Annual dues could be less, more or about the same.
• The non-DVC timeshare might allow you more "family time" together if you capitalize on their distance from the parks. That distance and the inconvenience of driving/parking might encourage more "down days" for board games, reading, and relaxing and/or seeing other areas of Florida.
• (Possible disadvantage?) The non-DVC timeshare schedule might be tied to weeks. Your vacation could be locked to "Fri/Fri," "Sat/Sat," "Sun/Sun" or similar.
• The non-DVC timeshare might be fixed-week on the exact week your family wishes to travel. That could be pretty cool having a "no stress" reservation process.
• The non-DVC timeshare might be affiliated with a great network of locations. There might be 15-50 ways and places to use your ownership interest!
• The non-DVC timeshare might be affiliated with multiple exchange companies allowing the owner greater choice (and associated costs).
• The non-DVC timeshare might offer perks such as day-use, bonus-time, etc. (Day-use is desirable for timeshare near your home and equally undesirable for timeshare requiring travel. Locals love it for their own use while distance-guests feel crowded by the locals!)
• The non-DVC timeshare might have bigger units and better furnishings than DVC units.
• The non-DVC timeshare might offer a busy schedule of Resort Activities (free or inexpensive) throughout the week.

Isn't it great to have choices? We have DVC and non-DVC timeshare. Each has its place, purpose and advantages. I write this from our vacation home which also plays an important role in our lifestyle. (Especially right now as we are displaced from our primary home due to a recent fire. FWIW, we've also been relying heavily on one of our non-DVC timeshare for mid-week bonus time these past three weeks!)

Life is good -- enjoy!

 

[MJ6987]

I agree with Bill on this one; DVC is all about "location, location, location." When I book DVC, I'm staying on property and don't need a rental car. No car? Joy!

Some might also point out that DVC's point system as an advantage over "weeks" systems. While not entirely unique in the industry, it is delightful to be able to choose: any size unit, any length of stay, any arrival day!

Possible advantages of the "vice-versa" situation, owning non-DVC timeshare:

• The non-DVC timeshare will likely have a lower buy-in cost, especially on the resale market. Some non-DVC timeshare might be free ($0.00) to acquire. Annual dues could be less, more or about the same.
• The non-DVC timeshare might allow you more "family time" together if you capitalize on their distance from the parks. That distance and the inconvenience of driving/parking might encourage more "down days" for board games, reading, and relaxing and/or seeing other areas of Florida.
• (Possible disadvantage?) The non-DVC timeshare schedule might be tied to weeks. Your vacation could be locked to "Fri/Fri," "Sat/Sat," "Sun/Sun" or similar.
• The non-DVC timeshare might be fixed-week on the exact week your family wishes to travel. That could be pretty cool having a "no stress" reservation process.
• The non-DVC timeshare might be affiliated with a great network of locations. There might be 15-50 ways and places to use your ownership interest!
• The non-DVC timeshare might be affiliated with multiple exchange companies allowing the owner greater choice (and associated costs).
• The non-DVC timeshare might offer perks such as day-use, bonus-time, etc. (Day-use is desirable for timeshare near your home and equally undesirable for timeshare requiring travel. Locals love it for their own use while distance-guests feel crowded by the locals!)
• The non-DVC timeshare might have bigger units and better furnishings than DVC units.
• The non-DVC timeshare might offer a busy schedule of Resort Activities (free or inexpensive) throughout the week.

Isn't it great to have choices? We have DVC and non-DVC timeshare. Each has its place, purpose and advantages. I write this from our vacation home which also plays an important role in our lifestyle. (Especially right now as we are displaced from our primary home due to a recent fire. FWIW, we've also been relying heavily on one of our non-DVC timeshare for mid-week bonus time these past three weeks!)

Life is good -- enjoy!

Thanks for that - a comprehensive summary - to be honest I would not buy a traditional timeshare - I meant outright purchasing a villa - using it when you need it and renting it out via an agent when you are not using it.

 

[Dean]

Thanks for that - a comprehensive summary - to be honest I would not buy a traditional timeshare - I meant outright purchasing a villa - using it when you need it and renting it out via an agent when you are not using it.

Why not, if you'd consider staying off property such as in a villa, the best and cheapest option IS non DVC timeshares. In addition it'd give you MUCH better non DVC travel options if one chose wisely.

 

[dvc at last !]

subbing ... we have thought of this too -
but do not know where to look for property - ideas ?

 

[MJ6987]

Why not, if you'd consider staying off property such as in a villa, the best and cheapest option IS non DVC timeshares. In addition it'd give you MUCH better non DVC travel options if one chose wisely.

I don't know why not really, just that timeshare has a bad reputation in the UK, lots of horror stories.

 

[rcchello]

I don't know why not really, just that timeshare has a bad reputation in the UK, lots of horror stories.

Disney has sidestepped most of the horror of timeshares such as bad maintenance, $0 resale value, etc.

Compared to owning a villa, with DVC you do not have to worry about, broker quality, insurance, replacing appliances or furnishing, Florida being Florida (bugs, mold, mildew, Wood rot, hurricanes, etc.)

 

[lilpooh108]

My biggest concern would be maintenance of the vacation home, in general, and especially in Florida. Bugs, humidity, woodrot, hurricanes, and other things. Renting it out may not be as easy as you think. There are lots of places that (if I had the money) I'd consider buying a vacation home. Central Florida isn't one of those places, no offense to anyone who owns one there.

 

[Brian Noble]

I meant outright purchasing a villa - using it when you need it and renting it out via an agent when you are not using it.

My uncle has one. Before retirement, he was of the opinion that he would not do it again. Now that they snowbird for most of the winter, I think he feels better about it.

The short version: the rental market in Orlando is crazy competitive and it is either a lot of work (if you do most of it) or a substantial cut to the management company (if they do) to keep your calendar even remotely full. You almost certainly will not make a profit by renting such a home, all things considered. Instead, you should consider short-term rentals as a way to defray the cost of owning a second vacation/retirement home.

 

[bwvBound]

Thanks for that - a comprehensive summary - to be honest I would not buy a traditional timeshare - I meant outright purchasing a villa - using it when you need it and renting it out via an agent when you are not using it.

Ah. I wrote a few thoughts on DVC vs Vacartion Home in post #4 of an earlier thread: http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1374808

Our vacation home is our "weekend" place and is located in our local mountains. We maintain it for our exclusive use and do not rent it out. I don't think I'd particularly want to be similarly responsible for something across the country, much less across an ocean?

 

[Dean]

I don't know why not really, just that timeshare has a bad reputation in the UK, lots of horror stories.

That was my suspicion, don't believe everything you hear because it's based on people who went on vacation, were sold a timeshare at ridiculous prices they didn't need or use and didn't fit their lifestyle. The reality is that non DVC timeshares can be a a far better deal than DVC for many situations. Ignoring theming and location, many in the Orlando area are nicer than DVC in many ways. They also can give far more and better non Disney options than does DVC. Looking at short and long term costs, many of these will be a fraction of the cost of DVC. Buying DVC currently is ONLY reasonable to use for DVC options for those that see the increased cost of staying on property as worth it. Every situation is different but for one who wants a 2 BR for a week per year or more, it's often less than half what owning DVC would be. It can actually be far more flexible than is DVC when looked at globally. My Bluegreen and Marriott timeshares have given me far more options and savings over the years and have been a far better value than owning DVC. Had I not owned before, I would either not have bought DVC or just bought a small contract. And with that I've have a number of DVC stays not secured through DVC including two 2 BR villas for a week in August of this year. That said, for the type that generally frequent this board, owning both together can be the best of both worlds.

 

[HokieGCC]

This is such an interesting topic for me (us). We are within 2-3 years of retirement and know we want to spend 3 to 6 months a year in FL with the balance in the Mountains of VA.

Of course we love Disney and that is part of the vision...

I go back and forth on the idea of buying a second home or just get enough points to hang out at Disney Jan, Feb, and March. Or, some other mix I haven't thought of yet.

A real rough calculation says that for about $150K and ~$10K/year fees we get the 3 months at Disney and even at the resorts we like. For a little more (say $200-$250K) we get a nice second home nearby in a good retirement community like Solivita or Del Webb (they are NICE too). Ug - what to do??!!

DVC is cheaper initial and yearly but in the end you have nothing to show for it except Disney mugs and wrist bands. However, it is also much more trouble-free. With DVC I give up 3 months in FL but I don't think I care as VA is a wonderful place to be in the spring and fall.

So, any insight and experiences others have I am all ears.

To the original post - if I were not in the USA I would be more jittery about owning vacation property in FL (the comments about mold, hurricanes, heck even sink holes are well founded ... FL can be really rough on property). If you have lots and lots of extra money don't give it a thought but if you watch your pennies to put kids in college, save for retirement etc may want to think about that one pretty good.

 

[DVC Doctor]

It all depends on location in Orlando.

Celebration is a nice are but there are much cheaper options out there.

Also the quality of homes vary tremendously. Be careful of buying a frame home that can get mold and are not as sturdy in hurricanes vs a much stronger cBS home.

 

[twinsouvenirs]

We have friends that have a condo in Hilton Head. They bought it as an investment property thinking it would pay for itself--it does not. I don't think they regret it, and they and their kids use it, but the year their daughter got married there were tons of maintenance issues and they were really strapped for cash. Something like DVC is much less 'outlay' as far as maintenance, taxes, etc. You are limited in the amount you can use it but it is being maintained and the other owners have expectations, so you have sort of spread out the risk. Disney resale is also not AS risky as the second home market because they do exercise right of first refusal and it is a 'safe' product--i.e. to do a resale sale you don't need to have property inspections, etc like you would with a condo. When property prices were in the basement during the worst of the foreclosure crisis, I thought about getting a place in HHI to eventually serve as a retirement home and rent out in the meantime, but unless you have a really primo property there is little guarantee that you will be booked enough for it to pay for itself, and you will definitely have to worry about the ebb and flow of large maintenance issues and property management for however many yrs you are not there--not to mention dealing remotely with a condo association that can/will levy special assessments from time to time. Disney can too but they have a much more 'branded' product that they can't afford to sully too much--i.e. a $10k special assessment would get lots of press and LOTS of backlash; a freestanding condo ***'n might think nothing of it.

 

[Dean]

We have friends that have a condo in Hilton Head. They bought it as an investment property thinking it would pay for itself--it does not. I don't think they regret it, and they and their kids use it, but the year their daughter got married there were tons of maintenance issues and they were really strapped for cash. Something like DVC is much less 'outlay' as far as maintenance, taxes, etc. You are limited in the amount you can use it but it is being maintained and the other owners have expectations, so you have sort of spread out the risk. Disney resale is also not AS risky as the second home market because they do exercise right of first refusal and it is a 'safe' product--i.e. to do a resale sale you don't need to have property inspections, etc like you would with a condo. When property prices were in the basement during the worst of the foreclosure crisis, I thought about getting a place in HHI to eventually serve as a retirement home and rent out in the meantime, but unless you have a really primo property there is little guarantee that you will be booked enough for it to pay for itself, and you will definitely have to worry about the ebb and flow of large maintenance issues and property management for however many yrs you are not there--not to mention dealing remotely with a condo association that can/will levy special assessments from time to time. Disney can too but they have a much more 'branded' product that they can't afford to sully too much--i.e. a $10k special assessment would get lots of press and LOTS of backlash; a freestanding condo ***'n might think nothing of it.

We own a condo in HH as well as 5 summer Marriott weeks. They serve different purposes. The Condo easily pays for itself but they are different animals serving different purposes.

This is such an interesting topic for me (us). We are within 2-3 years of retirement and know we want to spend 3 to 6 months a year in FL with the balance in the Mountains of VA.

Of course we love Disney and that is part of the vision...

I go back and forth on the idea of buying a second home or just get enough points to hang out at Disney Jan, Feb, and March. Or, some other mix I haven't thought of yet.

A real rough calculation says that for about $150K and ~$10K/year fees we get the 3 months at Disney and even at the resorts we like. For a little more (say $200-$250K) we get a nice second home nearby in a good retirement community like Solivita or Del Webb (they are NICE too). Ug - what to do??!!

DVC is cheaper initial and yearly but in the end you have nothing to show for it except Disney mugs and wrist bands. However, it is also much more trouble-free. With DVC I give up 3 months in FL but I don't think I care as VA is a wonderful place to be in the spring and fall.

So, any insight and experiences others have I am all ears.

To the original post - if I were not in the USA I would be more jittery about owning vacation property in FL (the comments about mold, hurricanes, heck even sink holes are well founded ... FL can be really rough on property). If you have lots and lots of extra money don't give it a thought but if you watch your pennies to put kids in college, save for retirement etc may want to think about that one pretty good.

DVC will be an expensive approach but there's no single answer. Also, the 3 months likely yields one best answer and the 6 months another. Other factors are personal preferences as to unit size, tolerance for moving, etc. For 6 months a year, a real home in an areas without a lot of extra fees is likely to be the best long term investment dollar wise. A condo or garden home might be the preference overall for many. For 3 months the best is likely renting from someone else rather than owning. I'll confine the rest of my thoughts to timeshares including DVC. I'll assume 1 BR units for all of those except Bluegreen where they only have 2 BR units for Orlando (currently though that's about to change). I'll also assume Orlando at the main focus, I used 13 weeks Jan-March.

Bluegreen maybe $5-10K in (210K points) and $11K yearly todays dollars but gives a 2 BR at the Fountains.
Wyndham, likely similar buy in and dues but 1 BR at Bonnet Creek. More variable, might be able to get in cheaper with lower dues at a resort like PCB or LV with a larger contract and get more options/benefits.
SSR points staying OKW 1 BR roughly $160K buy in and closer to $13 K yearly (rounded to $5 pp).
Marriott Grande Vista roughly $20-30K buy in and yearly $8K. However it gives 14 weeks (seven 2 BR L/O) but half 1 BR and half studio (can string them together to move only once. Could supplement with II membership and moving most or all the studio weeks to 1 BR would add another $1K per year and not be guaranteed.
Resale Marriott Trust points Maybe $60-70K up front and $10-11K yearly, free II and free Marriott trades.
Hilton - I'm not versed enough to be specific but the resorts in Orlando are very nice. I suspect Hilton would be a little more.
Owning something cheaper elsewhere and trading in through RCI or II could actually be cheaper still but add uncertainty and increase the likelihood of having to move units & resorts at times.
There are a number of other timeshare options as well.

To me, if I wanted to stay 1 place for the entire time, I'd simply rent from someone else then consider buying down the road if all fell into place. The timeshares are workable but their best benefit is allowing flexibility of location, size, etc. The benefit or BG and Wyndham are that they give you a lot of other options for locations, times, etc. Marriott does also but in a different way and somewhat less so. What Marriott at GV would do is give potential direct access to Ocean Point and Beach Place Towers 1 & 2 BR and for PCB and Doral for 2 BR only. As noted, a lot of variables and a lot depends on personal preferences.

 

[DougEMG]

Thanks for posting the info on the other timeshares Dean, I don't know much about non-DVC resorts so found it to be good information.

 

[chalee94]

Disney resale is also not AS risky as the second home market because they do exercise right of first refusal.

not sure what you are implying here. disney exercises ROFR only when it benefits disney...and will only consider exercising ROFR if you can find a bonafide offer from someone else. disney will not offer you money directly (exceptions have been made in the past for BCV but the offers were far below the market price at the time.) during the recession when a couple of owners sold OKW in the $30s, ROFR didn't help them...

 

[bakerworld]

DH started bugging for a second home about 7 years ago - right down his alley because he expected to put minimum down and mortgage the rest. I just didn't want the worry and maintenance of the 2nd home (rising HOA/maintenance fees ). We've looked at quite a few TS over the years (yes, we're 'those' people) and I felt that was the way to go but I wanted to purchase somewhere we wanted to return often. Personally, I never want a second home - we're not landlord material.

Another big DVC are the transfers built in and no need to drive anywhere for your entire vacation. Maybe if we ate more this would be a problem but a beverage of choice with a nice view will hold us for hours.

 

[Dean]

Thanks for posting the info on the other timeshares Dean, I don't know much about non-DVC resorts so found it to be good information.

You're welcome of course, hopefully others can share their thought on the various options and comparisons. One should follow the posts by OhioDVC about living in timeshares. Personally it's a little difficult to put myself into this exact situation since we live in the south but I must admit our plan was to spend a lot of vacation time in timeshares once I retire either partially or completely in a few years, even with the full time beach condo we own. I'm not wanting to go somewhere for 3-6 months but multiple places, at least as we stand right now. I get far more and better value from my non DVC timeshares than I do DVC.

not sure what you are implying here. disney exercises ROFR only when it benefits disney...and will only consider exercising ROFR if you can find a bonafide offer from someone else. disney will not offer you money directly (exceptions have been made in the past for BCV but the offers were far below the market price at the time.) during the recession when a couple of owners sold OKW in the $30s, ROFR didn't help them...

ROFR does not add safety for the owners, only for Disney.