DVC v Starwood info please!!

[BeccaG]

So this past December we took my folks to WDW using our points. They liked what they saw. However, their favorite vacation spot is Hawaii, so they are very interested in the Hawaii DVC. While in Maui this past week, they went to a presentation for Starwood. There they were told they would get 148,000 points (?). . .which would get them two weeks at Disney on trade. . . so anyone have starwood and can explain their point system so we can make as close a comparison as possible? If you have both whats the pros and cons?

 

[arlene22]

We own both (although not at the Maui property). Here's how it works. They could easily book two weeks in a 2 bedroom at Vistana Resort and have points to spare. It is close, but not on Disney property-- no DME, no Disney discounts, or disney magic. So not really apples to apples, IMO (that's why we bought DVC). If they bought from the developer, they could trade their unit in for 80,000 Starpoints which would get them 10 days at the WDW Swan or Dolphin (hotel room, not timeshare). I don't recommend that at all. Alternatively, they could deposit their Maui week into II and put in a search for DVC, but they would have to use the whole two bedroom in order to search for a 2 BR. Or if they were flexible on dates, they could split the units and deposit them both into II and watch very carefully for a 2 BR during Flexchange. They do come up, but you have to be watching, act fast and be ready to travel last minute. I don't know about you, buy my parents would not be up for that.

IMO, both Starwood and DVC are too expensive to buy as traders and should only be bought if they will be used 4 out of 5 years. BTW, unlike DVC, there is a huge advantage to buying Starwood resale. If they buy, they should not buy from Starwood. They can check out ebay or redweek or one of the other resale sites and save beaucoup bucks.

 

[BeccaG]

Thanks for your help, you totally helped straighten up one of my point questions, but could you explain how the points work for Starwood? I mean two weeks at DVC in a two bedroom may set you back 600 points but 148,000? How does Starwood calculate points? It seems vastly different than Disney. . .and they made it sound like you were locked into a week unless you traded out to "starpoints" is that the case?

 

[arlene22]

The timeshare part of Starwood, called SVN (Starwood Vacation Network) assigns StarOptions to each week. For a two bedroom lockoff in Maui, you get 148,100 StarOptions, that's 81,000 for the one bedroom portion and 67,100 SOs for the studio portion. The StarOptions are the same for any week of the year in Maui, and at Vistana Resort, but FYI many of the other SVN resorts have different StarOptions for different seasons. There are 17 resorts to choose from. 148,100 StarOptions are enough to get you anywhere except a 3 bedroom at Harborside (it's enough for a 2 bedroom lockoff at Harborside, though). It is hardest to trade into "the big three" which are Westin St. John, Harborside at Atlantis, and the Hawaii properties. If they just want StarOptions and are flexible as to when they can travel, they might want to look into buying a Westin Keirland resale, which will give them 148,100 StarOptions for a lot less and for a much lower annual maintenance fee.

Totally separate from StarOptions are StarPoints. If you buy from the developer, your week is assigned a StarPoint value. (The only thing you lose by buying resale is the ability to trade for StarPoints) For Maui, I believe you would get 80,000 StarPoints. What this means is that if you wanted to trade in your week, you can get 80,000 StarPoints, which can be used at any Starwood hotel. It's not really a great idea to do this, however, because a) when you consider your maintenance fees, you'd be better off renting out your week and paying for a room somewhere; b) Starwood keeps increasing the amount of StarPoints it takes to reserve a hotel room yet they do not increase the amount of StarPoints they give you for your week; and c) you can save a lot of money by buying resale and buy many weeks of vacations with your savings!

Whew! Clear as mud? It is said much more elegantly and completely on TUG

 

[VrBchJ]

Boy, and I thought DVC was complicated!

 

[KLR-wlv]

Also - I bought a eoy 1 br sheraton in Colorado off ebay. It was pretty cheap and when I traded it the first time, I got Harborside. This past time, it only pulled studios. Don't know if I wasn't looking at the right times or what - but it was pretty cheap and much better to trade than DVC. My parents bought a vistana in Hutchinson Island for $1000 off ebay and they love it. You are only part of the SVN if you buy certain resales. Harborside, St. John, Maui, Westin Kierland and the original section of vistana villages, there may be a couple more. My unit isn't part of it - which sucks - and which is why it was cheap resale. So I can't use the Starwood internal trading system - I have to go thru II. Which is why Westin Kierland resales are around $7-9000 and the others are less than $3000...Still haven't been to my home resort. But I think it's a good system and I'd probably love it a lot more if I could guarantee internal trades since they have nice properties

 

[Dean]

I'd agree that both are very expensive and that both are properties you buy more to use than trade. Personally I'd only buy either if I expected to use them and not do much or any trading, esp through II. If they prefer HI I'd say buy Marriott or Westin or one of the other nicer places like KBC, SOK or the Whaler depending on their needs and preferences. There is a Westin on Kauai and a Sheraton planned for Kauai as well. If they're very flexible they might consider a different Marriott, ? lockoff, to try to trade in when they want to go. One who is flexible, plans ahead and can do 1 BR units or smaller, can get to HI, or DVC for that matter, for a fraction of the price of buying there.

 

[tomandrobin]

You are only part of the SVN if you buy certain resales. Harborside, St. John, Maui, Westin Kierland and the original section of vistana villages, there may be a couple more.

SVN resorts are Westin Ka'anapali & Westin Ka'anapali-North (Maui), Westin St. John, Harborside at Atlantis, Vistana Village (but not the newest phase) and Westin Kierland.

My unit isn't part of it - which sucks - and which is why it was cheap resale. So I can't use the Starwood internal trading system - I have to go thru II. Which is why Westin Kierland resales are around $7-9000 and the others are less than $3000...Still haven't been to my home resort. But I think it's a good system and I'd probably love it a lot more if I could guarantee internal trades since they have nice properties

A Westin Kierland platinum 2 bedroom lockout, sells for around $20-$23k. A good Vistana Village unit sells for $6-$8k, but I would not buy in Orlando.

 

[Mickey'sApprentice]

I don't know how Starwood works, but one of their owners managed to embarass me to no end.

I was in a group and a friend mentioned that I had just bought 100 DVC points and the Starwood owner looked at me like I was nuts, and said oh dear, you paid $8k for 100 pts. We paid that and got 100,000 points. Aren't you foolish.

It was one of those situations when you don't have a good chance to explain it all. I wanted to crawl under a rock!

 

[tomandrobin]

We own both DVC and Starwood timeshares. We love them both.

We own at Westin Kierland and use our units strictly for II trading and internal trading in the Starwood Network. We also own at Westin St. John and those units are for use or rent, to expensive to trade via II.

If they want to own Hawaii, but not go every year, they should look at buying a EOY timeshare (every other year). That way the can go to Hawaii every two years.

 

[tomandrobin]

I don't know how Starwood works, but one of their owners managed to embarass me to no end.

I was in a group and a friend mentioned that I had just bought 100 DVC points and the Starwood owner looked at me like I was nuts, and said oh dear, you paid $8k for 100 pts. We paid that and got 100,000 points. Aren't you foolish.

It was one of those situations when you don't have a good chance to explain it all. I wanted to crawl under a rock!

Funny thing about that is there are no 100,000 point contracts in the Starwood system.

 

[BeccaG]

It sounds like with Starwood though you need to be able to travel the same weeks every year or with a lot of notice. My dad's job does not allow for that. It sounds like DVC has more flexibility about when you use your points.

 

[tomandrobin]

It sounds like with Starwood though you need to be able to travel the same weeks every year or with a lot of notice. My dad's job does not allow for that. It sounds like DVC has more flexibility about when you use your points.

No that's not true. Only St John and phase I at Harborside have all fixed weeks. The rest of the resorts have weeks that "float" within a season. For example, my Kierland Platinum unit floats between weeks 1 thru 18 of the year. At 12 months out I can call and reserve my week. If I want to go out of my season, I have to wait until the 8 month mark.

Starwood options work similar to DVC. At the 12-8 month window, you can book at your home resort. At the 8 month mark, you can then try to reserve a unit a different resort like Harborside.

Dvc is the most flexible timeshare system I know.

 

[Dean]

I don't know how Starwood works, but one of their owners managed to embarass me to no end.

I was in a group and a friend mentioned that I had just bought 100 DVC points and the Starwood owner looked at me like I was nuts, and said oh dear, you paid $8k for 100 pts. We paid that and got 100,000 points. Aren't you foolish.

It was one of those situations when you don't have a good chance to explain it all. I wanted to crawl under a rock!

There was no reason to be. The Westin is a great system but generally more expensive than DVC and likely not as flexible overall. In comparing one points system to another, one of the criteria is how many points to book similar units at similar resorts. Using this criteria, DVC is generally cheaper retail.

Dvc is the most flexible timeshare system I know.

I think it depends on how you define flexible. When we toured with the Westin on Maui and we got to the end, they guy wanted to know if we'd buy. I said no, he said why, I said (honestly) it wasn't flexible enough for me. His jaw dropped because he'd spent an hour and a half telling me how flexible it was, how it was better than Marriott, and everyone else, in that respect, about the hotel options and the like. He called in the closer who also was "stunned" at my thoughts and asked me what it would take flexibility wise to get me interested. My response was to be be able to book ANY Starwood resort at 12 months out and be able to use points for 2-3 years (banking & borrowing), not just within one year. My answer was honest and correct though had I planned to buy, I would be looking resale. Hyatt is even less flexible IMO. From my standpoint Bluegreen is even more flexible at this point than is DVC meeting all the criteria I quoted to the Westin sales closer plus more including being able to reserve as little as 2 days from the first day of reservation, cancel up to 10 days out with no penalty and being able to get on the wait list 2 months ahead of the rest if you are a Gold owner, 1 month for silver. Also automatic banking from one year to the next though there are some limitations on banked points. Wyndham is somewhat similar but it seems a little more complicated from my limited information.

 

[Califgirl]

I agree with Dean, that the Starwood is not as flexible as DVC.

We own both, and just returned from the Starwood Ka'anapali Villas. We also did the 'tour' and told our salesman that Starwood was not flexible enough for us to add on a week at the new Kauai property. His jaw also dropped and he wanted to know what I meant by flexible.

Well, you can't bank your star options from year to year (the timeshare options) although we can convert some of our star Options to star points (for hotel stays). You must decide by the end of March of your use year (we're talking calendar year here, it starts in Jan) if you want to convert your star options into star points. If you don't do it by the end of march and you don't take a timeshare vacation by the end of the year - too bad out of luck, lost those points. You also must book an entire week, unless you are 90? or maybe 60, days out. If you are island hopping and want to stay at a resort for only 5 days, you might as well book the week and try to change it to daily ressies in the time frame (good luck) because otherwise the unit may not be available, especially hawaii in medium to high season. We were there in February and the resort was were sold out.

If you own EOY and want to book a stay on your 'other year' or if you need to borrow Options to book a Starwood timeshare unit, you can only book 90 days out. So, if you're trying to go on the 'other' year of an every other year contract, you are mostly out of luck, certainly not all that flexible.

They offered us a great deal on the new Westin Kauai property but I told my husband for that money, I'd rather do an add on at DVC, so that's what we did.

I like both the Starwood and DVC, but Starwood takes some precise planning in my opinion. It is not nearly as forgiving as DVC.

 

[Mickey'sApprentice]

Funny thing about that is there are no 100,000 point contracts in the Starwood system.

I don't recall exactly how many points the woman said she had, but it made it sound like I had enough points to let me rent a broom closet for a 1/2 hour.

 

[3guysandagal]

I don't recall exactly how many points the woman said she had, but it made it sound like I had enough points to let me rent a broom closet for a 1/2 hour.

Imagine points as currency.
If you have 100,000USD as a DVC...
And the person you talked to had 120,540,000 Iraq Dinars as Starwood....
Or 902,800,000 Iranian Rials....
They are equal in currency exchange rates but it sure sounds like a lot more "wealth"!!!!
I dont think you would get $80-90/pt on resale at Starwood, would you?
Not that I feel Starwood and DVC are equal, as I know little about Starwood, just giving an example.
How many points per week is a Starwood 1bdrm?

 

[arlene22]

How many points per week is a Starwood 1bdrm?

For Hawaii, it would be 81,000 for a week in a 1 BR. Other resorts differ and may also differ in seasons. Hawaii is the same season all year long.

 

[DisnutDave]

Posted by Dean:

When we toured with the Westin on Maui and we got to the end, they guy wanted to know if we'd buy. I said no, he said why

I had to laugh when I read this. Boy, I would sure hate to be the timeshare sales rep or closer that tries to bamboozle Dean!

 

[Dean]

Posted by Dean:


I had to laugh when I read this. Boy, I would sure hate to be the timeshare sales rep or closer that tries to bamboozle Dean!

I DO NOT tour to get the perks, I only do so if I want to know more, see the resort, see the units and the like though I probably wouldn't tour without the added incentives and certainly couldn't get my wife to tag along without them. Last time we were in HI (2002 staying at the Embassy gotten through San Francisco Exchange), we did their tour and were there 18-20 minutes. I wanted to see the 2 BR units but they wanted us out. It went something like this. They started listing all the resorts we owned (it was more at the time than it is now) and how we bought them (all resale at that time). Most of the 18 minutes was spent with the lady trying to get the manager and our incentives and kick us out. Our Westin Tour was 2.5 hours mostly because I was asking questions because I truly wanted to know more about their system.

Overall I'd say they learn more from me than I do from them but it's usually a give and take. The problem is someone who's set on selling you something whether it's reasonable or you need it, generally can't get on the same page as the guest. It's much like two fanatics discussing abortions where one is on each side of the isle, there really isn't a common language by which to communicate. I'd say 80% of our tours over the years have been positive to very positive, some have been bad and a handful very bad. My sister had the best line, one that left the salesman speechless. When asked why should wouldn't buy at the end of a Marriott sales tour on HH, she simply asked why she should buy when she could mooch off me. My daughter and SIL use essentially the same approach last Sept when they did the Wyndham Tour on Maui. Staying at the Marriott's on Oahu and Maui for free and with FF tickets provided by me, their only costs were inter island and what they spent.