DVC trades

[eburg]

Ok, so I question Hilton vs DVC and looked around and saw that if we are not going to do Disney every year that DVC might not be worth it. My question is why?

Is it really that hard to trade within II and what other fees besides the $95 is there?

I am looking at a Hilton resale vs new DVC at AKL. The price diff for initial outlay is $4k approx. The thing I like about DVC is it is more kid friendly and the transportation system.

At the Hilton there are more options of places to go and it is perpetuity ( I am having such a hard time deciding). I have read the disboards and TUG

 

[Buckeye Fan]

Many on the boards will say that if you're planning to trade out, you'd be better off purchasing somewhere else. The MFs are generally lower than DVC and your trading power is greater within those systems.

We're very new to DVC (just purchased last year) and haven't traded out, but my SIL/BIL have owned DVC since mid-90's and have traded many times. They have traded out to Aruba, Spain, Mexico, England, Germany, Hawaii, etc. Here's what I know:

* She plans at least 12 months (or so) out
* Her dates are extremely flexible and so is her location. She will give them 2 or 3 locations and a span of about 6 - 8 weeks.

The only fee to trade out is the $95. I also know that you used to have to trade out for a full week, but in the near future, you'll be able to trade out for 3 or 4 day exchanges as well. Not sure how the points will work and what locations will be available.

Some things to consider...DVC does expire depending on resort (2042, 2054 and 2057). MFs are somewhere between $ 4.25 - $6.00 per point and increase about 3 - 5% each year. While I wouldn't bank on it, DVC resales retain a lot of their value because Disney will buy back the contract if it falls below a certain price per point.

Keep asking your questions! These boards have WONDERFUL, very knowledgeable people!!! Best of luck with your decision and your purchase!

 

[SanDeeKath]

At the Hilton there are more options of places to go and it is perpetuity ( I am having such a hard time deciding). I have read the disboards and TUG

I think having ownership "in perpetuity" is a downfall of most places. It means you are stuck with escalating maintenance fees and refurbishment special assessments as the property ages. I love having an "end" to my committment. Realistically, you want out of an old resort. DVC is the perfect out with their ~50 year contracts.

Katherine

 

[bwvBound]

Many on the boards will say that if you're planning to trade out, you'd be better off purchasing somewhere else. The MFs are generally lower than DVC ...

Exactly!

eburg -

We own routinely use and trade four of our other timeshare properties. Reasons why we trade the other properties:

• Worlmark as a trader: Allows us direct membership with both RCI and Interval International. Offers discounted "last minute" exchanges (a "low season studio" week will trade into any available inventory w/in 45-days of travel for RCI or 59-days of travel for II). Worldmark purchase and MF costs are less than DVC for similar reservations. WM has also secured several trades into DVC over the years. (We enjoyed a 1BR at BWV last month via exchange. Cost was less than $600/week using WM MF + exchange fee.)
• Grand Pacific Palisades as a trader: Trades through RCI, GPX and SFX and generally earns a free bonus week for every deposit; great tool for searching RCI's inventory online; secures larger units (pay MF on a 1BR, enjoy staying in a 2BR or 3BR); Our other reasons for ownership include day-use and defeating a "1-in-4" resort block in SoCAL.
• South Africa as a trader, our only property purchased singly for trading: Cheap purchase (~$700 including 6 years of prepaid RCI membership), low dues (~$325/year), great trades until very recently. This 2BR unit was a gem at pulling 2BR and 3BR units at very lovely US resorts. A great tool while it lasted!
• Warner Springs Ranch as a trader: Trades through II and allows us to bank as many weeks as we need ... by simply paying the MF on the week. Earlier today I exchanged a studio at WSR for a studio on Oahu -- online. My costs for 7 nights in paradise: $409 ($270 MF plus $139 exchange fee). Nifty.

While DVC offers the "corporate" membership to II and discounted exchange fees ($95), I enjoy our "direct membership" with RCI, II, SFX and others. Specifically I enjoy direct access to the inventory via their websites -- and access to the sell-off/rental weeks.

Nothing beats owning DVC for on-property Disney resort vacations. But there are good reasons to own "other vacation tools" for your non-Disney adventures. Just my $.02. Hope this helps ...

 

[Buckeye Fan]

While DVC offers the "corporate" membership to II and discounted exchange fees ($95), I enjoy our "direct membership" with RCI, II, SFX and others. Specifically I enjoy direct access to the inventory via their websites -- and access to the sell-off/rental weeks.

Not trying to hijack the thread, as I think these questions apply. Can you help me understand what this means? I'm not familiar with II, except that I know we can trade out through them. I always thought they were a timeshare (just like Hilton, DVC, Marriott, etc.), but it sounds as if it's more of a 3rd party that allows timeshare owners to deposit and trade with other owners?

What's the difference between a corporate membership versus a direct membership? Aside from lower MFs, why would a membership through another timshare be better or offer more trading power than DVC? Just curious, as I have no background on other timeshares or II.

Thanks!

 

[utahkennedys]

I own 2 timeshares that trade with II and love it. However, I also love DVC and we own points at OKW. If I had too many points at DVC (is that possible?) then I would simply rent those out the year I didn't want to go, and rent where I wanted to if I didn't want to trade DVC with II.

 

[Dean]

Ok, so I question Hilton vs DVC and looked around and saw that if we are not going to do Disney every year that DVC might not be worth it. My question is why?

Is it really that hard to trade within II and what other fees besides the $95 is there?

I am looking at a Hilton resale vs new DVC at AKL. The price diff for initial outlay is $4k approx. The thing I like about DVC is it is more kid friendly and the transportation system.

At the Hilton there are more options of places to go and it is perpetuity ( I am having such a hard time deciding). I have read the disboards and TUG

It really is that hard to trade through II for top options during peak times, not as much for the rest but who cares about that as you could get the rest with anything in II. Given many of those in II are Marriott's, all Marriott owners are ahead of you in line. For WDW, DVC can be worth it if you can take advantage of the flexibility. You should be able to get Hilton for a lower price than $4K comparatively if you are comparing a full week in the same unit and actual resale, not resale through the company. Both are great systems overall and to a degree, both tend to be overpriced if used for trading. Actually the best option for many is to buy a smaller DVC interest then buy something else for trading.

Not trying to hijack the thread, as I think these questions apply. Can you help me understand what this means? I'm not familiar with II, except that I know we can trade out through them. I always thought they were a timeshare (just like Hilton, DVC, Marriott, etc.), but it sounds as if it's more of a 3rd party that allows timeshare owners to deposit and trade with other owners?

What's the difference between a corporate membership versus a direct membership? Aside from lower MFs, why would a membership through another timshare be better or offer more trading power than DVC? Just curious, as I have no background on other timeshares or II.

Thanks!

Interval International is an exchange service who doesn't own any timeshares, RCI is the other main one though there are other smaller (independents) as well. The resort has to be a member to allow you to then become a member of that exchange system for the big 2, not the rest. For II and DVC, a corporate membership means that DVC is the actual member and you are not. They make the trades then assign them to you. The big differences are that you can't interact directly with II, don't get access to their website, no bonus weeks and no uptrades where one will get only 1-2 week of trade with DVC but easily up to 3 for other resorts.. DVC has announced that members will be able to do some things online directly with II in the next few months, we'll have to see how that works out and what is and is not available.

From a trading standpoint, many other timeshares have a number of advantages over DVC though most of the principles are going to hold for any high cost/high end timeshare option. First, the above limitations are reason enough for me, I guess Westin (Starwood) is the only other system I'm aware of with similar limitations. Anytime you're trading a BMV, it's likely you won't get a Mercedes in return or if you do, that it'll be much older and not as nice as yours. Why buy something with an upfront cost of $20-30K when something $500-5000 will do just as well or often better. You mention the lower MF like it's an afterthought. My feeling is that the MF are point #1 when comparing options and up front price is next. And believe it or not, DVC's trade power is not that great comparatively, even when discussing those $500 buy ins with yearly fees of $500.

 

[bwvBound]

I'm not familiar with II ... but it sounds as if it's more of a 3rd party that allows timeshare owners to deposit and trade with other owners?

You are on track! (Yes)

What's the difference between a corporate membership versus a direct membership?

Dean covered this well above. With a direct membership, I have my own relationship with RCI/II and may access their inventory by phone or website w/out having to go through my timeshare's Member Services desk. I also have access to their travel planning services (flights, cruises, hotel, car, activity reservations) and discounted rental weeks.

I pay an annual membership fee to each exchange company -- but may link several timeshares to the account. One membership fee to II covers both my Worldmark and Warner Springs Ranch exchanges. One fee to RCI covers Worldmark, Grand Pacific Palisades and my South Africa week. I can trade anytime day or night through their websites and enjoy "hunting" for great trades using their search tools. (My personal goal is to generally book any given reservation with the least expensive tool. This morning I found a 2BR week spanning Memorial Day 2009 along the San Diego coast using my Grand Pacific 1BR unit. I searched again using my South Africa week and put it on hold using the less expensive trader.)

Aside from lower MFs, why would a membership through another timshare be better or offer more trading power than DVC?

Aside from MF and trading -- the real reasons I might find "another timeshare to be better ... than DVC" include location (I'm in San Diego and often travel in the western states), and owner perks: day-use, bonus time, etc. What is better for me may not be better for you. Warner Springs Ranch is a perfect example -- it is 90 minutes drive from my primary home, allows day-use access to the hot springs pool, free golf and free equestrian to qualified owners, etc. This is ideal for me -- but what good does day-use offer to someone more than 125 miles away?

Related to trading, I tried to hit the first part of the question in my examples earlier. Recap: GPP offers bonus weeks with each deposit (2 weeks of vacation for every 1 deposited) and helps me defeat a trading block covering a large number of SoCAL resorts; Worldmark allows discounted trades nearer to travel dates; Warner Springs Ranch allows me 24 deposits each year without increasing my ownership.

As for the trade power question ... I find that each of my properties has different trade characteristics. One matches to (exclusively) better quality resorts, another finds a broader range of locations. DVC limits the my destination options to a small subset of II's list of affiliated resorts. While these resorts tend to be very nice -- I'm very happy staying at resorts that have not made DVC's cut or might trade through a different exchange company. I need a different timeshare tool to match to the inventory outside DVC's handpicked locations and outside II.

DVC isn't alone in this. When searching II using both Worldmark and Warner Springs Ranch -- Worlmark will find fewer resort options than Warner Springs Ranch for most searches as Worldmark filters out the "lesser quality" locations. On the other hand, Worldmark can pull DVC and the Ranch will never do that. So "trade power" is an interesting question -- and often w/out a single, clearly identified winner. Following Dean's car analogy above, we own different types of vehicles for different purposes: the 4x4 for exploring the backcountry, the truck for hauling fill dirt, the leather-seated luxury car for transporting passengers in comfort and style. Different cars for different jobs ... same with timeshare.

 

[bwvBound]

Related to trading ...

Oh, oh! Here's another one: Reverse Trades aka Points for Deposit.

Worldmark, a points based system with many similarities to DVC, allows me to perform "reverse trades" using either RCI or II. They'll give me points for my outside weeks! If I don't have a use for my 2BR week in South Africa, I can deposit it in RCI and then ask WM to give me 8000 points for it. Those 8000 points may then be used for Worldmark reservations just like my native Worldmark points.

Try doing that with DVC ...

 

[SanDeeKath]

Also, I know you can see DVC weeks to trade INTO with inexpensive deposits from Starwood and Marriott. It actually made us think twice about buying at DVC in the first place. For example, my friend's inexpensive Sheraton PGA ($3000 for a 2BR LO plus $700yr maintenance) routinely seeks OKW and BCV during off season (October, Nov, March thru May). So if you are flexible with the dates, it's WAAAY cheaper to buy something non-DVC and trade into DVC. If you have to go during the holidays -- forget II and forget the 7 month period with DVC. You just have to own there.

Keep in mind that you have to go 7 days with II exchanges so you lose a lot of DVC points if you decide to exchange from DVC into II. Our plan is to own both. We are in escrow for a not so expinsive Westin and just added AKV on. Best of both worlds. We won't be using our precious points with DVC to gamble on II this way. And we can still go to Hawaii and St. John and other places DVC can't take us, for a fraction of the cost.

Look on eBay for any non-disney Sheratons or Marriotts. You'll see some going for $500 that will trade great! Also, read the TUG and timeshareforums websites!

Katherine

 

[Buckeye Fan]

Look on eBay for any non-disney Sheratons or Marriotts. You'll see some going for $500 that will trade great! Also, read the TUG and timeshareforums websites!

Katherine

Interesting! We're thinking of purchasing a contract to allow us a stay at VB, but maybe I'd be better off looking into another timeshare option!!! Thanks for sharing.

Dean, not mentioning MFs in passing. I think DVC fees are high. A friend of mine at work ownes timeshares at both Virginia Beach (summer week) and Hawaii (Marriott). His MFs are 1/2 of mine. We haven't gotten deep into conversation, so I'm not sure if we're comparing apples to apples, but if so, his are a whole lot cheaper!!!

Thanks to everyone for the great explanations. Now...time to go research!

 

[Dean]

Dean, not mentioning MFs in passing. I think DVC fees are high. A friend of mine at work ownes timeshares at both Virginia Beach (summer week) and Hawaii (Marriott). His MFs are 1/2 of mine. We haven't gotten deep into conversation, so I'm not sure if we're comparing apples to apples, but if so, his are a whole lot cheaper!!!

HI Marriott's really aren't cheaper overall but certainly many others are.

 

[CarolA]

HI Marriott's really aren't cheaper overall but certainly many others are.

Which is my problem... that's the Marriott I want LOL!

 

[Dean]

Which is my problem... that's the Marriott I want LOL!

Buy there is you want to use it, just not to trade. Or buy an EOY there. Marriott is still cheaper than the Westin for yearly fees and buy in.

 

[CarolA]

Not sure what an EOY is?

But the problem is I want to use at HH and not really HI. But the prices at HH are more then I really can justify.... I can rent a villa in Sea Pines or Palmetto Dunes for around $700 a week in the off season....

 

[tomandrobin]

Every Other Year

 

[Dean]

Not sure what an EOY is?

But the problem is I want to use at HH and not really HI. But the prices at HH are more then I really can justify.... I can rent a villa in Sea Pines or Palmetto Dunes for around $700 a week in the off season....

My references above were more directed at HI which has far higher prices and fees than do HH Marriott's. For off season at HH, you could buy any Marriott and trade in to HH if you wanted. Still, if you're going off season and happy with what you get for $700 (nice but not Marriott nice and off the beach), then I wouldn't bother or I'd buy something really cheap to try to trade in.

EOY is every other year, I don't think any of the HH properties offer EOY nor do they offer lockoff's. One can get a summer unit at Grande Ocean or similar for just over $20K with yearly fees under $900. A truly off season (Bronze) week can be had for $3-4K, sometimes less, but the fees are the same and to me the fees would be more than the weeks are worth if they just gave it to you.