DVC T &C Personal Use - Only Thread to Discuss!

[VGCgroupie]

Well this actually did happen to friends of ours with a room being rented and then cancelled. They were never given the full story of what happened ie Disney cancelled, Owner cancelled, contract sold, dues weren't paid etc. Luckily DVC Rental Store did make it right for them.

I would bet that this is the owner at fault and Disney did make the owner aware the reservation was cancelled. Kudos to DVCrentalstore for making it right.

 

[DonMacGregor]

2 beds are the most lucrative for owners to book for themselves, but not for commercial renters. Commercial renters are primarily renting studios, very rare to see them renting anything larger. The cheaper the points on the room the better for commercial renting.

That was a typo (I went back and fixed it). I meant to say 2BR aren't the most lucrative for commercial renters, but they are what we prefer.

 

[eticketplease]

Those who get in to renting should understand that risk, because it has always been there.

That is why I think it might be harder for owners to rent privately vs a broker who has the ability to give better guarantees or protections to the renters.

There is a reason that renting is cheaper than cash bookings. I can’t have a ton of sympathy for those who don’t understand the difference.

Sure the risks have always been there but for the unsuspecting family trying to bring their family to Disney for the first time they might not be aware or think of them.
All they see is the savings and the great time that can be had.
Whether you have compassion and symphony for that family without a room is certainly up to you but I do care especially when the commercial renter has already received their money.

 

[DonMacGregor]

I disagree. The disappointment is in my eyes is of the unsuspecting family that didn't know a box to check existed and thought they could finally afford a family trip to Disney by renting points from a member.
Now Disney has cancelled their room because it was made by someone that rents commercially and they have nowhere to stay.

The box is checked by the member when the reservation is made, not the renter. The risk of an unscrupulous member cancelling a reservation has always existed. This is at least a step in the right direction to weed some of those losers out.

 

[Disfamwa]

One of the big rental Facebook groups just paused new listings based on this info and is encouraging owners to reach out to lawyers over the new terms

 

[Duckbug.Ducktales]

I think there's going to be some issues here. A long time ago--maybe around 2015--a guide tried to sell me a contract saying something to the effect of, if you get more points than you need, you can rent the extra points to cover your member fees, making all of your stays free moving forward. I'm pretty sure I wasn't the only one who got this pitch. Again, not a fan of renting, but I see some larger issues here.

A lot of the resale companies have used the rental pitch to sell contracts as well. I remember when I was first buying and considering resale, the company I was looking at even had a webpage breaking down how one could use points. In one of their examples they even suggested buying twice as many points as needed then renting out half yearly to cover the dues. That made it seem like the membership would be totally free after the initial cash outlay!

I suspect the DVC resale companies will no longer use that pitch and have scrubbed/are scrubbing marketing materials suggesting frequent rentals. But I suspect there are owners out there who bought contracts twice the size of what they needed and now may be wondering if they can keep renting out half their points yearly. I think there won't be an answer for them for a while.

For new folks wanting to get into DVC, though, this change should definitely reinforce the notion that you should not buy extra with the purpose of renting it out.

 

[eticketplease]

The box is checked by the member when the reservation is made, not the renter.

Correct. My point is the renter doesn't know a box exists stipulating no commercial renting.

 

[VGCgroupie]

ohh if you are on FB there is a group that has very hot take on what this means and they are not happy stating DVC has violated its contract and contact attorneys ... Not sure if I can share the whole thing that was posted or the page here so I wont. They said this though which is seemingly just hearsay at this point. "Other sources have suggested that as of 1 PM today, DVC is no longer allowing guest modifications. It is unclear at this point if that is simply a ban on modifying primary guests, or an outright ban, such as adding or changing any guests"

Disclaimer I do not agree with the above just sharing info I thought was juicy.

 

[VGCgroupie]

One of the big rental Facebook groups just paused new listings based on this info and is encouraging owners to reach out to lawyers over the new terms

Jinx

 

[MICKIMINI]

Sandy, I would like to clarify if each contract is entitled to one transfer per year? I also believe it is within the calendar year, not UY?

Additionally, from my 30 years DVC ownership, I understand that an owner can transfer between their own contracts without falling into the "one transfer per year" policy?

Thanks in advance for clarifying for DVC owners!

 

[VGCgroupie]

Sandy, I would like to clarify if each contract is entitled to one transfer per year? I also believe it is within the calendar year, not UY?

Additionally, from my 30 years DVC ownership, I understand that an owner can transfer between their own contracts without falling into the "one transfer per year" policy?

Thanks in advance for clarifying for DVC owners!

Not any more. Point transfer are so confusing so I made a thread for it. https://www.disboards.com/threads/dvc-point-transfer-rules.3958925/

 

[DonMacGregor]

One of the big rental Facebook groups just paused new listings based on this info and is encouraging owners to reach out to lawyers over the new terms

Yeah, that will show DVC...

 

[VGCgroupie]

Yeah, that will show DVC...

Show them who is desperate to rent out all their points they know they wont be using, dues are expensive if you have no plans to use the points.

 

[Mouseforward]

IMO, this is why DVC used the language that they did and didn’t go to language that they had years ago with a set number.

Now, they can view indivual accounts and decide if the patterns would be seen as what is regular and frequent.

I don’t see DVC looking at one year in isolation and canceling based on that. But, what this does give them is something that owners are agreeing to every time they make a reservation.

I think these are common sense rules that put renting where it belongs….not a business and that what is reaonsable.

My suspicion is Disney added personal use because that term is a lot less ambiguous than commercial use. Commercial use has been defined many times in the court and it’s not what most people think it is. Just exchanging money for something doesn’t make it a commercial enterprise.

“ Personal use “ seems to me an easier way to justify if someone renting the majority of their points or not even going to Disney themselves.

Especially since ambiguity usually goes against the author of the contract in court.

 

[Sandisw]

This is the tough one. Most renters I dont think are aware of this. I am going to give Disney the benefit of the doubt and say that they will notify someone before/when a reservation gets cancelled as opposed to just allowing someone to show up to a cancelled room. Then the responsibility does lie with the owner to pass that along to renter and refund them.

I think that’s why many use brokers and brokers have been adding credits etc to help.

I don’t think Disney would cancel on the spot but before hand. I just think any potential cancels will be going forward.

I’m going to say this…but I am also not highly convinced we are going to see some big time happenings that makes crackdowns evident.

I think the brokers will still have a robust business from owners who will continue to rent…and it’s those small group of owners who were renting 1000s of points who might get caught up in this.

Your average owner you might rent, a few, even every year won’t need to worry.

 

[VGCgroupie]

@Sandisw can I post the verbiage of this FB group? Their post said to "share it" so not violating their rules hahaha. To be frank its pretty controversial takes in my opinion

 

[Disfamwa]

Yeah, that will show DVC...

My other favorite argument is that Disney is the largest renter of points. It’s extremely clear in our contract that different rules apply to Disney.

 

[eticketplease]

I think that’s why many use brokers and brokers have been adding credits etc to help.

I don’t think Disney would cancel on the spot but before hand. I just think any potential cancels will be going forward.

I’m going to say this…but I am also not highly convinced we are going to see some big time happenings that makes crackdowns evident.

I think the brokers will still have a robust business from owners who will continue to rent…and it’s those small group of owners who were renting 1000s of points who might get caught up in this.

Your average owner you might rent, a few, even every year won’t need to worry.

The credits by brokers weren't added until after the shutdown correct?

 

[Cyberc1978]

Last time we had this discussion I posted this link.

In 2021 a new statute was implemented in FL. I don't know if or how it will impact DVC.


Link: https://www.floridacondohoalawblog.com/2023/11/29/implementing-condominium-restrictions/

Fla. Stat. § 718.110(13) expressly limits amendments relating to rentals as follows:

(13) An amendment prohibiting unit owners from renting their units or altering the duration of the rental term or specifying or limiting the number of times unit owners are entitled to rent their units during a specified period applies only to unit owners who consent to the amendment and unit owners who acquire title to their units after the effective date of that amendment.

 

[Sandisw]

Sandy, I would like to clarify if each contract is entitled to one transfer per year? I also believe it is within the calendar year, not UY?

Additionally, from my 30 years DVC ownership, I understand that an owner can transfer between their own contracts without falling into the "one transfer per year" policy?

Thanks in advance for clarifying for DVC owners!

You can transfer points once in or out per UY…in one single transaction. Calendar year plays no role. Number of contracts doesn’t either.

The points you receive detemines which UY it counts toward.

So, if you tranafer your 2025 UY points, it counts as your 2025 UY one and done.

If you receive 2026 UY points, it counts as your 2026 UY transfer.

When you use them doesn’t change because they retain all their own rules.

If you have more than one contract in your membership, you can transfer from any or all, but it as to go to the same owner in one transaction.

That is why I think the change in transfer rules was the first step in impacting rentals. I think they figure that instead of renting, you might have more owners moving points between them instead.

They can easily look the other way on that in terms of of payments.