DVC Right to Amend POS

[DVC Mike]

In the thread about the change to the POS regarding renters, I made an observation about the broad powers DVC has to amend and revise the Public Statement Offering and Rules & Regulations.

Re-reading the POS, there are some things that DVC clearly cannot change (home priority reservation, etc.). However, other than these few things, DVC has pretty broad discretion to make whatever changes they want.

I’m not a lawyer, but here are a few statements from the "Multi-Site Public Offering Statement" (dated 12/31/2007).

Multi-Site POS Text - P18 – 3(b) Rules and Regulations Governing Access to and Use of Reservation System

DVCMC, in its sole, absolute and unfettered discretion, may change the terms and conditions of the Membership Agreement and the Home Resort Rules and Regulations for a Club Member’s Home Resort. BVTC, in its sole, absolute and unfettered discretion, may change the terms and conditions of the Disclosure Document. These changes may affect a Club Member’s right to use, exchange and rent the Club Member’s Ownership Interest and may impose obligations upon the use and enjoyment of the Ownership Interest and the appurtenant Club Membership. Such changes may be made by DVCMC or BVTC without the consent of any Club Member and may adversely affect a Club Member’s rights and benefits and increase the Club Member’s costs of ownership.

Home Resort Rules and Regulations - P56 – VI.(3) Amendments

DVCMC reserves the right to amend these Rules and Regulations, in its sole, absolute and unfettered discretion. These changes may affect a Club Member’s right to use, exchange and rent the Club Member’s Ownership Interest and impose obligations upon the use and enjoyment of his or her Ownership Interest and the appurtenant Club Membership. Club Members will be notified of any such changes through Member Services publications. Current publications supersede prior publications with respect to the terms and conditions of these Rules and Regulations.

It appears that DVC is not required to send out a revised POS to existing members. All they must do is to have the amendments recorded in the public records of the County, and to ensure they ship the latest version and amendments to new purchasers.

 

[DBorges]

If your not violating them why worrie

Mike it is like anything else for the better good even if the better and good is for DVC that is still the better good.

Being that I am a retired state worker i have lived this more then once.

As for the recent rules changes banking and renting ect

I LOVE the NEW rent ruleI want them to enforce it

 

[disneynutz]

I don't think Mike is worried, he is just pointing out the fact that DVC/DVD can pretty much do with us what they wish. As with all things Disney, the program, ie: DDP, DVC, DDE, starts out as a good deal and slowly erodes into a less than ok deal. I hope they don't screw up my DVC too bad. I love my DVC.

 

[DebbieB]

I don't think the issue is "violating" the rules. They have recently made some changes that I consider a lessening of my membership. The $95 fee for WDW non-DVC resorts, the increase from 60 to 120 days for making reservations at the end of your use year. I frequently make last minute reservations as add-ons to business trips. If DVC was not available, I had the option of booking a non-DVC. Both these rule changes make it more difficult to do that. If the rumor of having a cancel a reservation if you change any occupants name on your reservation is true, that would be a deal breaker for me, I will be selling. I mainly bought DVC for my mom and I to enjoy alot of space on our vacations. She passed away over 2 years ago, I now bring one of my nieces, a friend or go myself. The main reason I keep DVC is I love the boardwalk view. If I have to cancel a reservation for a guest change, I will more than likely lose the boardwalk view reservation I made at 11 months. Then there's no longer a reason for me to keep DVC, I'll take the cash and get rid of the dues bill.

 

[JimMIA]

I'm not a lawyer either, and I'm certainly not a DVC POS expert. But my understanding is that they can change, but not eliminate, the home resort booking advantage. I think the only requirement is they have to provide at least a one-month advantage to home resort owners, as opposed to the current 4 month advantage we enjoy with 11/7.

I also think they have the ability to eliminate using points at non-home resorts. I think the only place we are guaranteed to be able to use our points, for the full term of our ownership, is at our home resort.

 

[keishashadow]

I'm not a lawyer either, and I'm certainly not a DVC POS expert. But my understanding is that they can change, but not eliminate, the home resort booking advantage. I think the only requirement is they have to provide at least a one-month advantage to home resort owners, as opposed to the current 4 month advantage we enjoy with 11/7.

I also think they have the ability to eliminate using points at non-home resorts. I think the only place we are guaranteed to be able to use our points, for the full term of our ownership, is at our home resort.

Effectively, eliminating the much of the "markup" enjoyed in value/resale on the more popular resorts ; anyone else think would be a good way to move the remaining SSR points

 

[TisBit]

I'm not a lawyer either, and I'm certainly not a DVC POS expert. But my understanding is that they can change, but not eliminate, the home resort booking advantage. I think the only requirement is they have to provide at least a one-month advantage to home resort owners, as opposed to the current 4 month advantage we enjoy with 11/7.

I also think they have the ability to eliminate using points at non-home resorts. I think the only place we are guaranteed to be able to use our points, for the full term of our ownership, is at our home resort.

Jim, I have seen you make these two statements on the other thread...but I do have an observation.

If we are "guaranteed" a home resort advantage by at least one month, but then the next paragraph says we are only guaranteed our home resort.

The first seems to guarantee that you will always be able to exchange within DVC, just without an advantage. (or maybe they can also charge $95 for switching from your home resort, similar to other time shares)

 

[jekjones1558]

DebbieB,
I feel your pain. There was a day when our DVC reservations rarely required changes. Now health issues for DH, Mom and DDog have made trip changes and cancellations necessary almost every time. Sometimes we have needed to give away reservations rather deal with the hassle of trying to rent out a reservation at the last minute or worry about using holding points. I find it hard to believe that commercial renters outnumber members like us who are just trying to use points for ourselves as best we can. I will be heart broken if new name change rules end up making my DVC more trouble than it is worth. Come on, Disney. Don't use overkill in dealing with the commercial rental issue, no matter what you can or can't change in the POS.

 

[Dean]

Jim, I have seen you make these two statements on the other thread...but I do have an observation.

If we are "guaranteed" a home resort advantage by at least one month, but then the next paragraph says we are only guaranteed our home resort.

The first seems to guarantee that you will always be able to exchange within DVC, just without an advantage. (or maybe they can also charge $95 for switching from your home resort, similar to other time shares)

All one is truly guaranteed is being able to use points at your home resort, even then there are reasons a resort or portion (including the members of that portion) could be eliminated. There are also reasons for a resort to stay operational but cease to be a member of the club.

Remember there are various components of the POS and other papers supplied with it that are not part of it. As a generalization DVC cannot unilaterally change things that hurt the membership as a whole or a significant portion of it without an actual vote of the members. Obviously the question is what evokes having the members vote, DVC has certainly pushed the envelope in this area lately IMO.

 

[Jaaron2]

If you think about it eliminating the ability to use your points at other resorts would totally go against what DVC is doing right now. By adding non-park resorts to DVC part of their selling ability is for those who buy these non-park resorts to be able to use their points to also visit Disney and its theme parks. On the other side by adding non park resorts offers other options to those of us who already bought in and it porvides us other alternatives.

I wouldnt lose much sleep over this.

 

[JimMIA]

The first seems to guarantee that you will always be able to exchange within DVC, just without an advantage.

I don't interpret it that way. My understanding is that all we are guaranteed is being able to use our points at our home resort. IF DVC allows us to use our points at non-home resorts, then they are required to provide home resort owners with at least a one-month advantage.

I think the current 11/7 program works pretty well, and I don't expect DVC to change it. I also don't expect DVC to ever curtail booking at non-home resorts -- it's too big of a marketing plus for them.

But Mike's points, and Dean's, and mine, are that we often assume a lot of things which simply aren't correct. Mike has posted, not speculation, but actual quotes from the POS that I guarantee you most of us did not know. I certainly didn't.

The truth is, DVC has almost unlimited ability to change things. And as Dean points out, they are not bashful about pushing the envelope.

 

[TisBit]

If you think about it eliminating the ability to use your points at other resorts would totally go against what DVC is doing right now. By adding non-park resorts to DVC part of their selling ability is for those who buy these non-park resorts to be able to use their points to also visit Disney and its theme parks. On the other side by adding non park resorts offers other options to those of us who already bought in and it porvides us other alternatives.

I wouldnt lose much sleep over this.

I do not forsee DVC ever changing this either...or at least anytime soon. As you pointed out, they have a good reason and been marketing the flexibility, but if push came to shove, I could see some type of charge for booking other than your home resort....although I don't think that would be anytime soon. If booking issues continue and they cannot curtail them, they do not want the negative publicity of even these boards where people are saying they can't get any ressies. If everyone was restricted to their 'home' (or pay a fee) then I think it would make some things easier, but DVC would also just start looking like every other timeshare (which they don't want). So they have to balance what is in the best interest of the members and DVC.

They will be building more and more resorts (off-site and on-site) which means that the advantage to buying in California/Hawaii/or any other off site property is the ability to go to WDW! I personally plan on trying to visit Hawaii when it opens, which will free up my points from WDW. (I am also sure some of your renters will do the same thing!)

Back on topic, I didn't read the power that DVC has on making changes, but I am also not really surprised. I would have been more surprised if they DIDN'T retain the power to modify/change all the terms on DVC, otherwise they would have painted themselves into a corner. We just have to trust that they will continue to operate with the members in mind, after all, if they piss off the members, DVC will no longer exist!

 

[TisBit]

I don't interpret it that way. My understanding is that all we are guaranteed is being able to use our points at our home resort. IF DVC allows us to use our points at non-home resorts, then they are required to provide home resort owners with at least a one-month advantage.

That was all that I was trying to point out. I don't think we are guaranteed non-home resort, but we are guaranteed and advanatage as long as there is a non-home resort option!

I guess it struck me funny the way you posted it, because without number two, you can't have number one! (but I have seen enough of your posts to know that you had the reasoning skills to know this.....)

 

[BWV Dreamin]

All one is truly guaranteed is being able to use points at your home resort, even then there are reasons a resort or portion (including the members of that portion) could be eliminated. There are also reasons for a resort to stay operational but cease to be a member of the club.

Would you be referring to Vero Beach?

 

[White_Sox_Fan]

If you think about it eliminating the ability to use your points at other resorts would totally go against what DVC is doing right now. By adding non-park resorts to DVC part of their selling ability is for those who buy these non-park resorts to be able to use their points to also visit Disney and its theme parks. On the other side by adding non park resorts offers other options to those of us who already bought in and it porvides us other alternatives.

I wouldnt lose much sleep over this.

I agree, as long as they continue to build and add resorts the ability to use your points elsewhere within the DVC system is a marketing plus. If they eliminated the ability to use your points at the other DVC resorts it would greatly decrease the demand and value.

 

[Chuck S]

Would you be referring to Vero Beach?

There was a rumor, years ago, that VB and HHI were likely to be spun off from DVC. It is extremely doubtful that will ever happen.

But actually the members at ANY DVC resort could vote to change management companies and withdraw from the DVC system, but that too, is extremely unlikely.

 

[LIFERBABE]

There was a rumor, years ago, that VB and HHI were likely to be spun off from DVC. It is extremely doubtful that will ever happen.

But actually the members at ANY DVC resort could vote to change management companies and withdraw from the DVC system, but that too, is extremely unlikely.

Although highly unlikely, if members voted to change management, BCV would lose the right to use SAB and most of Y&B and the other DVC's that have affiliation with resorts would lose those right to use agreements also. This is how it is described in the POS.

Spinning off would not be a good thing.

 

[DVC Mike]

The intent of my initial post was just to point out that DVC has the right to amend or modify the rules and regulations regarding our use of the DVC system. Whenever DVC changes a rule, or implements a new one, I see a few folks getting upset because they think DVC is violating/breaking the contract.

My own opinion is that DVC remains a great timeshare system, at least for what it is intended to be, and I remain a happy DVC member.

I don't see DVC making any major changes to the DVC system as long as they are actively marketing new properties. In order to sell this, they have to maintain it's value and flexibility.

 

[keys2kingdom]

If your not violating them why worrie

Mike it is like anything else for the better good even if the better and good is for DVC that is still the better good.

Being that I am a retired state worker i have lived this more then once.

As for the recent rules changes banking and renting ect

I LOVE the NEW rent ruleI want them to enforce it

No one is worried, we're just discussing it. Don't have a cow.

 

[Dean]

Would you be referring to Vero Beach?

Not necessarily. IMO, VB and HH are at a higher risk than the other resorts to be eliminated but it could potentially happen to any or all of them. This could happen due to natural disaster or choice on Disney's part or the members under certain circumstances. But lets say 3 buildings at OKW burned down. Disney could elect not to rebuild them and thus those members would cease to be in the club at that point. No more points and no more fees.