DVC Point Charts for 2011 - Post chart release discussion begins on Pg 14

[mikeandkarla]

I did not realize that the combined two year changes exceeded 20 percent? What was the percentage closer to?

There is not a set % across the board for each resort. I know that VB went up about 30% for June - August stays

 

[BWV Dreamin]

There is not a set % across the board for each resort. I know that VB went up about 30% for June - August stays

So the changes can't exceed 20 percent PER YEAR, however they can be changed more than 20 percent totally. So where is the max change limit?

 

[tjkraz]

DVC/Disney have the right to do what they did. Any hopefully for them it will all work out in their favor. It certainly hasn't for me as an owner of 90 points. I'm not complaining, but I'm not smiling about it either. I've got some decisions to make about my vacations. I can't see any way that I won't spend less days at WDW on future vacations. That will mean less money for them. I guess they figure they'll make up for that loss by bringing in people on weekends. Time will tell.

Really this isn't about what is best for Disney. Regardless of how individual members are impacted (which will vary in any circumstance), it's about what is best for membership as a whole.

Look at it this way:

Under the 2009 point charts, about 55% of points were spread over the Sunday - Thursday block of dates. If members were actually trying to use just 60% of all points for weekday stays, something is wrong and needs to be corrected.

We could blame Disney for leaving the weekday points too low for too long, but really this isn't a problem that they created--it's a problem that we members collectively created.

In reality, I wouldn't be surprised if attempted weekday usage through 2009 was 80% or more. Admittedly that's just speculation but the previous high cost of weekend stays and feedback on these forums leads me to believe that the vast majority of members bought for the value of weekdays rather than looking at full week stays.

In the 2011 charts weekdays now represent 69-70% of all points. Hopefully that number will be more representative of member habits. If anything I think it may be a bit high (they went down a LITTLE too far on the weekends.) If so we may see another adjustment in a few years. Time will tell...

 

[tjkraz]

So the changes can't exceed 20 percent PER YEAR, however they can be changed more than 20 percent totally. So where is the max change limit?

There isn't one.

Total points in a resort cannot change and they cannot increase the costs for a single Use Day more than 20% from one year to the next (excepting seasonal adjustments.)

 

[Chuck S]

Reason#256 Why I truely hope DVC management reads these boards.

What do you think it will change? Disney/DVC reps certainly do read fansites, like the DIS. But if you expect Disney/DVC to ignore their legal responsibility and obligation to balance demand by not reallocating the point charts, I would not look for that to happen.

I guess what I'm asking is what, specifically, do you want DVC/Disney to do to make you feel better about spending money with them? Given that as far as DVC they are legally bound to do many things that may have a negative affect on an individual membership, but is good for the overall membership program.

 

[arthur06]

I have just been catching up on this thread today... So I am behind on this...

That being said... as DVC added a bi-coastal property in VCG and another one on the way... Hawaii ... doesnt it seem as though they are trying to make all properties more of a "destination" and making week long stays a easier with weekend reductions?

I think ultimetly, the change will save me $$$. I mean if I added extra days to my vacation and no additional flight charges or rental car expense, we use ME...

It really doenst bother me that the points changed. Gives me more options of being less selective on finding a flight on sunday, now I can look for any day of the week.

 

[DeeCee735]

I must be doing something wrong in figuring out this year as opposed to 2011 points for my trips. I've been reading this board and alot of it talks about how more points are needed for the same trip next year.

So...I just went over each trip I took/have scheduled for 2010, and looked at how many points for the same trips next year. I.E. January 11th, 2010 (monday) to January 15th, 2010 (saturday), split between AKV, (first two nights in 2 bdrm SV), and BWV (last three nights in 2bdrm Standard View), and compared that to the same week, same accommodations for 2011 and it cost 191 points this year, but is only 169 for 2011!!

Then I looked at this November's trip for the same time around Veteran's Weekend and in 2010 it would be 129 and 2011 will be 128 points.

Then, this coming June's trip is 118 points, and for the same weekend in 2011 it's only 100 points.

BWV and AKV are our home resorts, and these dates are a mix of weekdays and weekends, but I looked at "point costs" for the same days for each vacation in both 2010 and 2011 to make sure it was the same exact time. So, so far I'm really happy!


But then I looked at my Hilton Head trip for this coming Spring break, 2 bdrm, same exact time frame, which is the first Sunday of our Spring break to that Thursday, 4 nights. This year it costs 96 but next year it'll cost 132!!

So I see how the adjustment is very much affecting the Sun-Thurs during highest season of Easter week, but again, I'm happy, so far it's looking like the times I travel will be less points as we only go to HH during Easter break rarely (this is only the 2nd time in 10 years!)

We are ALWAYS borrowing anyway, since day one, and the very first DVC vacation. Our rationale is that we'll be into our 80's when our contracts expire, so we may as well borrow ahead to get the trips we want while we're young and healthly enough to do these multiple trips a year.

All in all, we're ok with the points changes and we, thankfully, continue to enjoy each and every trip!

 

[helenk]

Last year the allocation kind of upset me because I had just bought my contract with the 2009 point chart in mind. So when the 2010 chart came out I bought 50 more points.
The new allocation will put me back to taking my vacations they way I use to do before DVC.
During slower times I would arrive on a Thursday and leave on a Tuesday. This way I could get a full weekend in with only using 4 vacation days instead of 5. When I bought into DVC I started going Sunday to Friday, using 5 vacation days but not getting in a full weekend.
The 2011 allocation will allow me to stay the way I actually prefer to stay without a huge drain on my points.
I like staying the weekend during the slower periods so that you can get in all the parades and fireworks that are not as frequent during the week.

 

[lugnut33]

HelenK and DeeCee735, it's nice to hear from members that are coming ahead on the allocation. I'm sure for all those that are adversely affected, there will be many who are happy with the changes.

For all those travelling Monday through Friday, maybe you'll be saving on vacation days from work? That will be a positive. It might actually allow you to have more vacation time away from work because you won't be spending 5 of them going to Disney (if you can go over a weekend now... depending on your points).

I do feel sad for those affected though. I know how passionate you are for your Disney, and it has to feel like they are taking something away from you. In particular I can tell Maminnie is very upset. Wish there was something we could do to make you feel better, but DVC really did need to do something with the huge difference between weekdays and weekends.

 

[Inkmahm]

Really this isn't about what is best for Disney. Regardless of how individual members are impacted (which will vary in any circumstance), it's about what is best for membership as a whole.

Look at it this way:

Under the 2009 point charts, about 55% of points were spread over the Sunday - Thursday block of dates. If members were actually trying to use just 60% of all points for weekday stays, something is wrong and needs to be corrected.

We could blame Disney for leaving the weekday points too low for too long, but really this isn't a problem that they created--it's a problem that we members collectively created.

In reality, I wouldn't be surprised if attempted weekday usage through 2009 was 80% or more. Admittedly that's just speculation but the previous high cost of weekend stays and feedback on these forums leads me to believe that the vast majority of members bought for the value of weekdays rather than looking at full week stays.

In the 2011 charts weekdays now represent 69-70% of all points. Hopefully that number will be more representative of member habits. If anything I think it may be a bit high (they went down a LITTLE too far on the weekends.) If so we may see another adjustment in a few years. Time will tell...

I actually agree with you- I think some of the weekend nights probably DID go down a bit too far. I'm okay with weekends being a bit higher cost than weekdays because I think in general the demand is higher. Or, it would be higher if the weekends hadn't been priced so much higher than weekdays.

Just like CRO is starting to charge a bit more for weekend nights, it makes sense for DVC to be a bit higher for weekends. Just not double the points as it was in many cases.

 

[El&Asmom]

Good grief. I come back after an awesome 10d trip to the world and DCL, and look how much I've missed on the boards! (BTW, LOVED, LOVED, LOVED Kidani and our first DCL trip).

Anyway, I don't get worked about about most of the changes, but this one stinks for us. We bought a 50pt HH contract to stay in a 1bd Sunday through Friday every 3 years in the summer. With the point changes last year, we were up to 145 points for our trip, so we were still golden. This year, we're 5 points short. For the same 5 nights we'll need 155 points. Thankfully, this summer is our year to go to HH with banking from last year and borrowing from next year. We'll see what happens 3 years from now. Maybe we'll decide to just book 4 nights and then have to pay cash for the last one. That or stay somewhere else for that one night.

It's a bummer, but the weekend discrepancy at HHI was the most pronounced, especially Saturday nights. I can't imagine that many people used all those extra points to stay there for the weekends. It's just sad that we specifically bought 50 points to use every three years with plenty of buffer room. Two point reallocations later and we need to do an add on, or stay one less night.

 

[Inkmahm]

HelenK and DeeCee735, it's nice to hear from members that are coming ahead on the allocation. I'm sure for all those that are adversely affected, there will be many who are happy with the changes.

For all those travelling Monday through Friday, maybe you'll be saving on vacation days from work? That will be a positive. It might actually allow you to have more vacation time away from work because you won't be spending 5 of them going to Disney (if you can go over a weekend now... depending on your points).

I do feel sad for those affected though. I know how passionate you are for your Disney, and it has to feel like they are taking something away from you. In particular I can tell Maminnie is very upset. Wish there was something we could do to make you feel better, but DVC really did need to do something with the huge difference between weekdays and weekends.

That's actually exactly why we always have a full weekend included in our trips- I need to save my vacation days as much as possible so that I can have as many trips to Wdw as possible each year! Even worse, we'd take the early early flight out of MCO and then I'd go DIRECTLY to the office from the airport to work a full day, so the travel day home would not be a vacation day for me. It made for one really sleepy Inkmahm by the end of that day, I tell you.

 

[disneynutz]

Really this isn't about what is best for Disney. Regardless of how individual members are impacted (which will vary in any circumstance), it's about what is best for membership as a whole.

Maybe I'm just thick headed, but how is this best for the membership?

Is it because there might be additional availability during the week if members start staying more on weekends?

Bill

 

[KBoopaloo]

First off, let me say that when buying into DVC I understood 100% that a point allocation could happen at any time. However, I was led to believe that it would be a couple points here, a couple points there as some others have posted. Did I read the contract and see that it could actually be more than that? Yes. Did I expect that because there had been seemingly so few large scale point reallocations in previous years that a large scale reallocation would not happen in my first two years of DVC ownership? Yes again. Does that make me naive? Maybe.

As I said, I am a new DVC member so I only have point charts back to 2008. Is there anywhere I can go to see archived point charts previous to that time?

I understand that there was an apparent imbalance between weeknight and weekend occupancy at the resorts and DVC is obligated to fix that type of imbalance. But if the point charts have not changed dramatically in many years which seems to be the case, then hasn't this imbalance been in place for some time? Years, in fact? If that is the case, then perhaps Disney would have been better suited to try and fix the imbalance with smaller reallocations over a longer period of time rather than two large reallocations which has left some members ecstatic over their new ability to stay weekends at a significantly lower point cost and left other members feeling left out in the cold with planned vacations now costing significantly more points.

Again, I am a new member and have not seen charts previous to 2008 and am basing my observations on reading others posts. I would love to be directed to a place where I can look at older point charts to look at changes over the years.

What I do know for sure is that the big family vacation I planned to take in April of 2011 will now cost me 60 more points per room than when I first started considering it in 2009 and 35 more points than it would have in 2010. I had built in a cushion to account for a possible reallocation but didn't think it would be anywhere near this high. I don't think it is unreasonable to express my frustration over this situation, while still understanding it was always in Disney's power to do it.

 

[chalee94]

As I said, I am a new DVC member so I only have point charts back to 2008. Is there anywhere I can go to see archived point charts previous to that time?

if you've seen the 2008 pt charts, you've seen pretty much everything since 1996. they didn't change (except for holidays) during those 12 years IIRC.

here's a link to the original OKW pt chart in 1991.

I don't think it is unreasonable to express my frustration over this situation, while still understanding it was always in Disney's power to do it.

it's not unreasonable to vent. i did last year.

it is unreasonable to confuse the inconvenience to you with what is good for the membership as a whole. it's frustrating for you personally but if you can take a step back and see the big picture, it'll probably help.

 

[chalee94]

Maybe I'm just thick headed, but how is this best for the membership?

Is it because there might be additional availability during the week if members start staying more on weekends?

yep, if more people are willing to spend a couple extra pts to stay on the weekends, then cheapskates like me will find better availability from sun-thurs...and DVC as a whole will have better occupancy numbers as there are fewer members who can't find availability (since most are currently competing for sun-thursday stays).

 

[arthur06]

I know this was talked about 20 pages (or so) ago... But this reallocation makes me sure glad I own at BWV... With the Standard and preferred views, a week can be had in a studio for only 76 points (and higher). But for me, the best kept secret is now Standard Views at BWV!

 

[MiaSRN62]

KBoopaloo : perhaps Disney would have been better suited to try and fix the imbalance with smaller reallocations over a longer period of time rather than two large reallocations which has left some members ecstatic over their new ability to stay weekends at a significantly lower point cost and left other members feeling left out in the cold with planned vacations now costing significantly more points.

Welcome to the DIS KBoopaloo.
Looks like you jumped right in to a pretty hot and steamy thread (you are brave !). But I agree with what you said. A more subtle allocation spread out over a few more years would have been nice. But I suppose DVC figured there were so many years when there was no allocation that they better make up for lost time And yes....it's definitely more a "smack-in-the-face" to Members. A good smack for some and a bad one for others

I know this was talked about 20 pages (or so) ago... But this reallocation makes me sure glad I own at BWV... With the Standard and preferred views, a week can be had in a studio for only 76 points (and higher). But for me, the best kept secret is now Standard Views at BWV!

Standard & Value at AKV is pretty sweet too Arthur


Maria

 

[dismedvc]

Note to those who have read this far: I AM NOT SAYING JAMBO IS BUILDING A AND KIDANI IS BUILDING B.

I think, however, I now do understand bookwormde's THEORETICAL argument.

Having thought about it further, bookwormde has convinced me he is right. Assuming his numbers are correct and the only way the point realocation could be "point nuetral" is if 42 2brm units and 2 GV's were reclasified fron savanna view to standard view, then It does appear DVD did actually "create points" at AKV (using the definition of that term bookwormde provided earlier.) They did not do it the exact way I described in my last post, (link on the arrow in the quote above) but the effect was the same. If that was indead done it may have been technically legal (I am sure DVD ha some pretty good lawyers), but I think I have the same definition of "fair" as bookwormde, and it does not seem fair.
Whether the initial "overclassification" of some rooms was premeditated or an honest mistake is something we can never know, but since the resort is not yet sold out, DVD could have taken the "hit" rather than the members who have already purchased.

While some will argue that the total points did not change, if the downgraded rooms needed to be downgraded because they were below member expectations for their original classification, and the points were "balanced" by raising the points for the other rooms, unless those other rooms previously exceeded member expectations, then increasing the points for those rooms was not "fair".

Note: this discussion is a lot different than most of what is being discussed in this thread, so maybe it should have had its own thread. For those who are interested in this topic, the history is in posts 371, 397, 579, 596, 604, 611, 633, 681, 692, 694, 695 714 and this post.

I would also be interested to know if the same thing might have occured at BLT, but I will leave that for another post.

 

[dismedvc]

Given work2play's breakdown of rooms at BLT and the 2009, 2010 and 2011 points charts, what is the result in total points at BLT for those three years if you use work2play's classifications for all three years?

If the totals come out different, there must be a reclassification of some rooms. (Possibly a downgrading out of MK view for lower floors and maybe even rooms in the far south of the middle section, like XX30.) If that happened, and the points for other rooms were increased, but those other rooms were not upgraded in category, it sounds like the same type of "point creation" that might have happened at AKV (and possibly BW in 1996)

If the totals come out the same, maybe they are just waiting for the resort to be sold out before they do the reclassification. (How’s that for a conspiracy theory)

Since you have the algorithms and spreadsheets built, I was hoping this might be something that would not be that hard for one of you to look at. Thanks.