DVC Point Charts for 2011 - Post chart release discussion begins on Pg 14

[Sandisw]

You are probably correct there...but that speaks to the severity of the problem. It's clear from the posts here that some people bought points for week-long stays. Many more (IMO) bought points for exclusive use on Sunday - Thursday nights. But unless there are an equal number of members who bought for exclusive weekend use, the resorts are going to sit empty.

As Sammy said a few pages ago, you can often call on a few weeks (or days) notice and have your choice of resorts for a weekend stay--particularly in One and Two Bedroom villas. Having dozens (hundreds?) of rooms sitting empty every single weekend is not healthy for a program designed to have year-round occupancy of 100%.



I didn't buy that logic a year ago and I still don't buy it today.

Only a fraction of members will respond by adding-on. Some will borrow points...some will lop a day off their trip every year or two...some will reduce their trip frequency...some will occasionally stay in smaller villas...some will visit during a cheaper season...and so on.

If 500 current members do 25-point add-ons due to the reallocation, that's about 12,000 points sold. That number is small potatoes compared to the sales DVC stands to lose for decades to come as new buyers decide the value is no longer there.

Based upon the 2009 point charts, a minimum purchase of 160-165 points was adequate for an annual Sunday-Thursday stay in a Savanna View Two Bedroom in Adventure or Choice season. By 2010 it will take 200 points to make that same stay.

Month-after-month, DVC stands to lose future sales from people who no longer find DVC to be the value that it once was.



Because the POS has a stated limit that points for a given night cannot increase by more than 20% from one year to the next.

And I have to agree with you on this point and I believe the members who bought with this notion are the ones that are suffering the most.

We own only 180 points at BLT and typically go for 5 nights in the summer. Since it is cheaper for me to fly to/from Syracuse mid-week, my stays had to include weekends.

Based on the 2010 charts, my 1 bedroom SV room during Magic season cost 204 points. In 2011, that will cost only 196 points, a saving of 8 points.

Instead of having to borrow 24 points every year to go, we will now have to borrow only 16 points a year. That difference add an additional 4 years (7 vs. 11) worth of trips before I have to worry about what to do.

 

[LisaS]

Yes, all of Concierge went up, but if I don't stay concierge, all my usual dates went down except for GVs. I'm thinking our concierge stays are over with. We are now down to planning 3 years worth of points per AKV trip. I find my real preference is to stay just a few days there anyway at the start of a trip.

As for the high GV and Concierge stays....I think those being high is why everything else appeared to go down. I'm wondering how anyonw could afford a holiday stay in an AKV GV! WOW! Almost 1000 points!

It's really too bad about Concierge going up so much. I would have liked to do it again sometime but my small add-on just doesn't stretch far enough anymore.

Our main reason for adding on at AKV was to stay in a 1BR Savanna View and those have gone up across the board, except for Premier season. Fortunately with such a high percentage of rooms in that category, I'm hoping I can book part of the stay 11 months out and then add a couple of nights with non-AKV points 7 months out. It's not the way I like to do things but I'm just not interested in buying any more points.

 

[dianeschlicht]

It's really too bad about Concierge going up so much. I would have liked to do it again sometime but my small add-on just doesn't stretch far enough anymore.

Our main reason for adding on at AKV was to stay in a 1BR Savanna View and those have gone up across the board, except for Premier season. Fortunately with such a high percentage of rooms in that category, I'm hoping I can book part of the stay 11 months out and then add a couple of nights with non-AKV points 7 months out. It's not the way I like to do things but I'm just not interested in buying any more points.

I'm right there with you on that one too, and I think you have more AKV points than I do. I figure our Concierge stays are over with anyway. We've done all the extras that come with it, so now we can move on to just an occational savanna view at the beginning or end of a trip to get our fix of the animals and embiance there. Frankly, I much prefer the accommodations at OKW anyway, so it's good that's where most of my points are.

 

[wdrl]

wdrl has them by UY and has calculated number of points per unit based off the thread I started to show Kidani Village units declared. I'm not sure if the totals are for the entire AKV or just Kidani Village though. Perhaps wdrl can give us some detail on this.

One thing that may slow down the process is that unit sizes vary as wdrl has found, so not all units have the same number of points.

AKV is a tricky animal (pun intended) when it comes to computing its points requirements. It has three (or is it four?) different types of accommodations with four different views. To compute the total number of points needed to fully book AKV for a calendar year, you need to know exactly how many and what type of villas are in each subset. AKV has 8 different sizes of Units in its Declarations, which makes it more difficult (but not impossible) to determine the accommodation types in each Unit (BLT, by comparison, has only 3 different Unit types). (Note: In AKV's case, a Unit may contain one or more villas of same or different types. That is why there are 8 different sizes of Units at AKV).

Adding to my uncertainty about AKV is that currently only 191 AKV Units have been declared (this includes Jambo and Kidani). There are 162 more 2-bedroom Units and 8 more GV Units to be declared. I feel very confident about the number of future villas by accommodation type, but I am very uncertain whether I could determine the view category for some of these future villas. To do the necessary computations, you need to know the view categories for all of these future Units.

As an AKV owner, I'd love to determine the impact of the 2011 point reallocations on my home resort. But, at this time, I don't have enough data to undertake that exercise. Since my review of VWL's reallocation has shown that it was neutral in VWL's case, I believe that AKV's reallocation is probably neutral as well.

 

[Shamus]

Wow!!! Can you do this for BWV?

My data on BWV rooms may be inaccurate but I had 383 rooms as follows:
15 - Studio SV
82 - Studio B/PV
23 - 1 Bedroom SV
107 - 1 Bedroom B/PV
37 - 2 Bedroom SV
112 - 2 Bedroom B/PV
7 - Grand Villa

Calculating that out I got 4,892,022 total required points for 2011.

 

[Chuck S]

My data on BWV rooms may be inaccurate but I had 383 rooms as follows:
15 - Studio SV
82 - Studio B/PV
23 - 1 Bedroom SV
107 - 1 Bedroom B/PV
37 - 2 Bedroom SV
112 - 2 Bedroom B/PV
7 - Grand Villa

Calculating that out I got 4,892,022 total required points for 2011.

Be careful using studios and one bedrooms in your calculations, unless they are specifically Dedicated units, and not lock off units. Lock-off units should be included in the 2 bedroom count, not as studios and one bedrooms, or the resort could be considered substantially and illegally oversold.

 

[Shamus]

Be careful using studios and one bedrooms in your calculations, unless they are specifically Dedicated units, and not lock off units. Lock-off units should be included in the 2 bedroom count, not as studios and one bedrooms, or the resort could be considered substantially and illegally oversold.

Yes - the Studio and 1 bedrooms numbers are listed as dedicated, with the 2 bedrooms all being lock-offs.

 

[DenLo]

My data on BWV rooms may be inaccurate but I had 383 rooms as follows:
15 - Studio SV
82 - Studio B/PV
23 - 1 Bedroom SV
107 - 1 Bedroom B/PV
37 - 2 Bedroom SV
112 - 2 Bedroom B/PV
7 - Grand Villa

Calculating that out I got 4,892,022 total required points for 2011.

Be careful using studios and one bedrooms in your calculations, unless they are specifically Dedicated units, and not lock off units. Lock-off units should be included in the 2 bedroom count, not as studios and one bedrooms, or the resort could be considered substantially and illegally oversold.

Yes - the Studio and 1 bedrooms numbers are listed as dedicated, with the 2 bedrooms all being lock-offs.

The DVC News shows the total number of villas for each type: 97 studios, 130 - 1 BR, and 149 - 2 BR, and 7 GV. Shamus' numbers agree with these figures.

 

[TSMIII]

AKV is a tricky animal (pun intended) when it comes to computing its points requirements. It has three (or is it four?) different types of accommodations with four different views. To compute the total number of points needed to fully book AKV for a calendar year, you need to know exactly how many and what type of villas are in each subset. AKV has 7 different sizes of Units in its Declarations, which makes it more difficult (but not impossible) to determine the accommodation types in each Unit (BLT, by comparison, has only 3 different Unit types). (Note: In AKV's case, a Unit may contain one or more villas of same or different types. That is why there are 7 different sizes of Units at AKV).

Adding to my uncertainty about AKV is that currently only 191 AKV Units have been declared (this includes Jambo and Kidani). There are 162 more 2-bedroom Units and 8 more GV Units to be declared. I feel very confident about the number of future villas by accommodation type, but I am very uncertain whether I could determine the view category for some of these future villas. To do the necessary computations, you need to know the view categories for all of these future Units.

As an AKV owner, I'd love to determine the impact of the 2011 point reallocations on my home resort. But, at this time, I don't have enough data to undertake that exercise. Since my review of VWL's reallocation has shown that it was neutral in VWL's case, I believe that AKV's reallocation is probably neutral as well.

Thank you for the great job on all of this wdrl.

I think bookwormde was just looking for a count of the number of units at AKV and perhaps the number of points for each - not necesarily the number of villas, or their views. I thought you may have that due to your work on it but wasn't sure if you just had it for Kidani or both Kidani and Jambo.

 

[bobbiwoz]

It's really too bad about Concierge going up so much. I would have liked to do it again sometime but my small add-on just doesn't stretch far enough anymore.

Our main reason for adding on at AKV was to stay in a 1BR Savanna View and those have gone up across the board, except for Premier season. Fortunately with such a high percentage of rooms in that category, I'm hoping I can book part of the stay 11 months out and then add a couple of nights with non-AKV points 7 months out. It's not the way I like to do things but I'm just not interested in buying any more points.

We have done concierge for a few nights, and we have it again for just 1 night this year. In concierge we've had a savannah view, and a pool/roof view and we were there since the offerings have been scaled down. I rather have a good savannah view or take a chance with a value room, since we often are at AKV for a weekend night. DH and I loved 2 things, the Sunrise Safari, and the Discovery Expedition (this one we're doing again after our 1 night this year). (OK...I also really like their potato chips, but probably someone here could help me find a brand that compares, please?) . After our stay in September, I guess we're done with AKV concierge.

Bobbi

 

[DVCSAMNH]

Lets all not forget that Disney is in this to make $$$$$. The more $$$$$ the happier the DIS shareholders. When you look at it from a business perspective it all makes perfect sense. Charge more points for the peak reservation times, and less for the slow times. Raising point requirements requires owners (us) to go out and buy addons to continue our vacation habits. Those who cannot affors addon will cut days off thier vacations and this opens more rooms up to disney to offer to the cash paying public. During the slow times, less required points means more reservations, which fills otherwise empty hotel rooms. The reallocation of points is designed to put money in Disney's pockets. If it had no purpose of financial gain, why else would the point charts be altered. I wish Disney would follow the principle, "If its not broken, don't fix it".

I haven't even looked at the charts yet because I'm still ticked at last year's adjustment and am just not in the right frame of mind today to find out how much less vacation I am going to get next year. But, the first thing that crossed my mind was that DVC must have made a bunch of money on add-ons last year from people who needed more points to continue vacationing the way they have in the past. And heck, since next year is not looking so great for the economy let's do it again!

I'm not playing, DVC.

 

[bobbiwoz]

wdrl, thank you for the work you've done and for your explanation, which I need to go over some more, regarding the points for VWL. Am I right to conclude that there are fewer March UY VWL points than any other UYs for that resort?

Bobbi

 

[Chuck S]

I haven't even looked at the charts yet because I'm still ticked at last year's adjustment and am just not in the right frame of mind today to find out how much less vacation I am going to get next year. But, the first thing that crossed my mind was that DVC must have made a bunch of money on add-ons last year from people who needed more points to continue vacationing the way they have in the past. And heck, since next year is not looking so great for the economy let's do it again!

I'm not playing, DVC.

Many owners vacations are the same or less points in 2011 vs 2010. It totally depends upon how you vacation, and if you stay over any weekend nights.

 

[Anal Annie]

I haven't even looked at the charts yet because I'm still ticked at last year's adjustment and am just not in the right frame of mind today to find out how much less vacation I am going to get next year. But, the first thing that crossed my mind was that DVC must have made a bunch of money on add-ons last year from people who needed more points to continue vacationing the way they have in the past. And heck, since next year is not looking so great for the economy let's do it again!

I'm not playing, DVC.

I was ticked after last years reallocations so I looked at it as a CURE for the dreaded ADDONITIS!! I HAD been (note past tense) dying to add on at AKV...and had we DONE it before last years reallocation we would've been in that same sinking boat of less vac. time for our points. I would've calculated EXACTLY what we THOUGHT we needed and would've ONLY bought that many. I said LAST YEAR that I wasn't going to play their game.

So look at this as a cure for what ails you!!

 

[wdrl]

Am I right to conclude that there are fewer March UY VWL points than any other UYs for that resort?

Bobbi

Yes, you are correct in thinking that the March UY has the fewest number of points at VWL.

 

[corpcomp]

Wow!. Last half of April has been moved from Magic season to Premier. Thats Spring Break for our schools. Probably because Easter moves from 4/4 in 2010 to 4/24 in 2011.

It will now cost me 360 points for a week at BCV in a 1BR instead of 269 points. Thanks DVC! I'm going to start taking home the shampoo bottles!!!

 

[Chuck S]

Wow!. Last half of April has been moved from Magic season to Premier. Thats Spring Break for our schools. Probably because Easter moves from 4/4 in 2010 to 4/24 in 2011.

It will now cost me 360 points for a week at BCV in a 1BR instead of 269 points. Thanks DVC! I'm going to start taking home the shampoo bottles!!!

Easter week floats every year to Premier season. This would have happened even without a weekday/weekend point change.

 

[tjkraz]

I haven't even looked at the charts yet because I'm still ticked at last year's adjustment and am just not in the right frame of mind today to find out how much less vacation I am going to get next year. But, the first thing that crossed my mind was that DVC must have made a bunch of money on add-ons last year from people who needed more points to continue vacationing the way they have in the past. And heck, since next year is not looking so great for the economy let's do it again!

I'm not playing, DVC.

I sincerely doubt that this is true. There was no big bump in sales numbers from February on (statistics HERE, note that the June and July increases were due to the Grand Californian contracts finally being recorded by Orange County, CA.)

Even if DVC did sell a few hundred small add-ons, those revenues pale in comparison to what DVC stands to lose in years to come because the economics of buying minimum contracts exclusively for weekday stays are not nearly as favorable. Every day DVC stands to lose sales because 160 points doesn't go as far as it used to.

Not to mention the fact that many who were driven to add-on would turn to the resale market.

The reallocation occurred because the system was broken--not because DVC was desperate to sell another 10-20K points in a sluggish economy.

 

[LisaS]

Wow!. Last half of April has been moved from Magic season to Premier. Thats Spring Break for our schools. Probably because Easter moves from 4/4 in 2010 to 4/24 in 2011.

It will now cost me 360 points for a week at BCV in a 1BR instead of 269 points. Thanks DVC! I'm going to start taking home the shampoo bottles!!!

In a lot of cases the points required for a 1BR for a week in Premier season actually went down. I don't have the BCV charts in front of me but you may find that the point reallocation actually helps you.

 

[disneynutz]

You are probably correct there...but that speaks to the severity of the problem. It's clear from the posts here that some people bought points for week-long stays. Many more (IMO) bought points for exclusive use on Sunday - Thursday nights. But unless there are an equal number of members who bought for exclusive weekend use, the resorts are going to sit empty.

As Sammy said a few pages ago, you can often call on a few weeks (or days) notice and have your choice of resorts for a weekend stay--particularly in One and Two Bedroom villas. Having dozens (hundreds?) of rooms sitting empty every single weekend is not healthy for a program designed to have year-round occupancy of 100%.



I didn't buy that logic a year ago and I still don't buy it today.

Only a fraction of members will respond by adding-on. Some will borrow points...some will lop a day off their trip every year or two...some will reduce their trip frequency...some will occasionally stay in smaller villas...some will visit during a cheaper season...and so on.

If 500 current members do 25-point add-ons due to the reallocation, that's about 12,000 points sold. That number is small potatoes compared to the sales DVC stands to lose for decades to come as new buyers decide the value is no longer there.

Based upon the 2009 point charts, a minimum purchase of 160-165 points was adequate for an annual Sunday-Thursday stay in a Savanna View Two Bedroom in Adventure or Choice season. By 2010 it will take 200 points to make that same stay.

Month-after-month, DVC stands to lose future sales from people who no longer find DVC to be the value that it once was.



Because the POS has a stated limit that points for a given night cannot increase by more than 20% from one year to the next.

My info about the added sales due to the last relocation came from DVD in addition to DISers posting that they were so happy because Disney let them add additional points to their in process purchase.

I don't know for sure that DVD cares about lost future revenue. Seems like they only care about selling today.

Their customer service after the sale is sure lacking and so is their computer systems and websites. I was promised by Lewis last month at the member meeting that he would get back to me about the the possibility of letting members turn their expiring points into a donation and about our problem with 3 defective new refrigerators at BWV. Two different staffers took my contact info. To date I haven't heard a thing.

I don't see any reason why the DVC couldn't break away from the tradition of the timeshare industry and become a exclusive program that everyone would want to join. The Membership should be special and the Members treated as such. Every Guest contact should be like you are someone special and not like you are just one of the heard. Maybe it's just me, but the feeling that we got from Cast Members just a few years ago was better than what we feel today.

Guess I'm just getting old.

Bill