DVC Please Give It a Break.

[lehrsj]

I don’t care if resale contracts can’t trade into non-DVC resorts or can’t trade into Disney Cruise lines or don’t get a discount on annual passes or can’t go to moonlight magic. But this latest thing about restricting resales to only book at. their home resorts cuts at one of the core constructs of how DVC works. When I purchased DVC in 1993 they kept saying how they aren’t like othe time shares and don’t pressure anyone to buy and are so flexible. I think just the opposite has become true.

People buy DVC. At some point most will want to sell. Not everyone wants it for 50 years. So why does DVC need to make so much effort to stop resales? What do they expect owners who own DVC and no longer want it to do? I know. Just hand your contract back to DVC for nothing. Or better maybe they prefer you continue to pay your dues, not use the points, and let them make reservations with them and pocket all the money.

I don’t really care about what the “can” do. Can’t they just give it a break and realize that there will always be resales?

 

[Deb & Bill]

The only resale at this point that cannot book non-home resorts is Riviera. It may be the start of a second phase of DVC. All the existing open resorts will be able to book each other with new resales.

 

[Bearval]

I don’t care if resale contracts can’t trade into non-DVC resorts or can’t trade into Disney Cruise lines or don’t get a discount on annual passes or can’t go to moonlight magic. But this latest thing about restricting resales to only book at. their home resorts cuts at one of the core constructs of how DVC works. When I purchased DVC in 1993 they kept saying how they aren’t like othe time shares and don’t pressure anyone to buy and are so flexible. I think just the opposite has become true.

People buy DVC. At some point most will want to sell. Not everyone wants it for 50 years. So why does DVC need to make so much effort to stop resales? What do they expect owners who own DVC and no longer want it to do? I know. Just hand your contract back to DVC for nothing. Or better maybe they prefer you continue to pay your dues, not use the points, and let them make reservations with them and pocket all the money.

I don’t really care about what the “can” do. Can’t they just give it a break and realize that there will always be resales?

You now have to look at DVC just like buying a new car. First owner will,lose half,of what they paid for the car in 3 to 4 years. Second owner gets a good deal if they buy where they want to stay. There are very few if any timeshares that retain 50% or more of their value in resale.

 

[Ben E N]

Now that they've reverted the 2020 charts back to 2019 levels (they've done that, right?), I will actually jump to DVC's defense here. They have every right to change the rules going forward. People know what they are buying into.
Personally, I have told three possible purchasers to not consider DVC, based mostly on these restrictions, but DVC must have figured it was worth losing those possible sales to get what they wanted l, so good for them if that's what they want. They at least grandfathered old owners in.

 

[RaymOOOnd]

Can somebody tell me whether the new rules are that Riviera resale contracts can only ever be used to stay at Riviera, OR whether they can only ever be used at resorts from Riviera and onward?

The first scenario would make a Riviera contract remarkably unattractive (and would, as in the OPs post, be a dramatic change in philosophy and relegate resale buyers to something like owning a normal timeshare). The second scenario could be the start of a whole new wonderful thing for buyers (i.e. the DVC2 scenario, with resale contracts still working for any upcoming additions such as BWV2, BC2, VGF2 etc etc).

 

[Ben E N]

Can somebody tell me whether the new rules are that Riviera resale contracts can only ever be used to stay at Riviera, OR whether they can only ever be used at resorts from Riviera and onward?

The first scenario would make a Riviera contract remarkably unattractive (and would, as in the OPs post, be a dramatic change in philosophy and relegate resale buyers to something like owning a normal timeshare). The second scenario could be the start of a whole new wonderful thing for buyers (i.e. the DVC2 scenario, with resale contracts still working for any upcoming additions such as BWV2, BC2, VGF2 etc etc).

Only Riviera. At least for now. They can always add things to benefit buyers if they find it helps their sales.

 

[lehrsj]

Now that they've reverted the 2020 charts back to 2019 levels (they've done that, right?), I will actually jump to DVC's defense here. They have every right to change the rules going forward. People know what they are buying into.
Personally, I have told three possible purchasers to not consider DVC, based mostly on these restrictions, but DVC must have figured it was worth losing those possible sales to get what they wanted l, so good for them if that's what they want. They at least grandfathered old owners in.

I realize that this only affects Rivera and isn’t going to affect me at all and I realize that DVC has every right to figure out how to suck out every dollar they can on new resorts. I’m just tired of it.

 

[Ben E N]

I realize that this only affects Rivera and isn’t going to affect me at all and I realize that DVC has every right to figure out how to suck out every dollar they can on new resorts. I’m just tired of it.

Yeah that's why I told my friends to avoid it. Glad I got in when I did, and I'm loving it, but I would not join with today's rules. Unless, of course, you buy something like Poly via resale and know exactly what you are getting. There are still good deals to be had, just not via direct sales, and not as good as they were a couple of years ago.

 

[Bearval]

Only Riviera. At least for now. They can always add things to benefit buyers if they find it helps their sales.[/QUOTE

Can somebody tell me whether the new rules are that Riviera resale contracts can only ever be used to stay at Riviera, OR whether they can only ever be used at resorts from Riviera and onward?

The first scenario would make a Riviera contract remarkably unattractive (and would, as in the OPs post, be a dramatic change in philosophy and relegate resale buyers to something like owning a normal timeshare). The second scenario could be the start of a whole new wonderful thing for buyers (i.e. the DVC2 scenario, with resale contracts still working for any upcoming additions such as BWV2, BC2, VGF2 etc etc).

Only Riviera. At least for now. They can always add things to benefit buyers if they find it helps their sales.

I am willing to bet that it will be like this for all new resorts. This is aleast the third time Disney has tried to steer people to buy direct instead of resale and the past two tries were not all that successful.

 

[RaymOOOnd]

Wow... I wonder whether new direct buyers will realize how hard it will become to off-load their contracts. Buying Riviera and onward, you'd better want to use it for 50 years.

 

[Bearval]

Wow... I wonder whether new direct buyers will realize how hard it will become to off-load their contracts. Buying Riviera and onward, you'd better want to use it for 50 years.

They won’t have a problem selling them at all just that they will go for around 50% of direct. There will be a market for people who just want to stay at the new resort that will not care they cannot use the other DVC resorts. I myself would consider buying points there resale for the right price. Plus not many people go into a purchase like this thinking about selling, they are too caught up in the moment.

 

[rg35]

DVC has gone from an incredibly buyer/owner friendly timeshare program to one that is not. It is basically turning into nearly every other timeshare program out there.

I am glad we were able to buy when we did, when resale prices were low during the recession. Current prices are outrageous and the continued push to create segregated groups of direct vs. resale buyers is really turning me off.

 

[zavandor]

They won’t have a problem selling them at all just that they will go for around 50% of direct. There will be a market for people who just want to stay at the new resort that will not care they cannot use the other DVC resorts. I myself would consider buying points there resale for the right price. Plus not many people go into a purchase like this thinking about selling, they are too caught up in the moment.

There is a risk with Riviera: if resale buyers cannot trade out at 7 months, they shouldn't risk it and they should book as early as possible, otherwise if their resort is fully booked they're stuck. At the Legacy 14 at least SSR and possibly OKW and AKV are open most of the year at 7 months and also after that. Competition at Riviera will be fierce and a resale buyer will risk to loose their points more easily. Better be able to book at 11 months with very low risks of cancellations or one shouldn't buy there resale.
This might lower the price even more.

 

[Bearval]

There is a risk with Riviera: if resale buyers cannot trade out at 7 months, they shouldn't risk it and they should book as early as possible, otherwise if their resort is fully booked they're stuck. At the Legacy 14 at least SSR and possibly OKW and AKV are open most of the year at 7 months and also after that. Competition at Riviera will be fierce and a resale buyer will risk to loose their points more easily. Better be able to book at 11 months with very low risks of cancellations or one shouldn't buy there resale.
This might lower the price even more.

Yes, resale buyers are gonna have to learn the ropes really fast on bookings rooms.

 

[Matty B13]

I think most of the resale buyers of Riviera will book their vacations right at the 11 month mark, even if it is a 50/50 chance they might cancel. So this will tie up a lot of rooms right at the 11 month mark all the way till 60 days out, when they can cancel and not have their points go into holding, making the 7 month booking window from outside members extremely tough. I know that is what I would do, book a few vacations and see if I actually can make it work.

 

[DanCio]

I don’t care if resale contracts can’t trade into non-DVC resorts or can’t trade into Disney Cruise lines or don’t get a discount on annual passes or can’t go to moonlight magic. But this latest thing about restricting resales to only book at. their home resorts cuts at one of the core constructs of how DVC works. When I purchased DVC in 1993 they kept saying how they aren’t like othe time shares and don’t pressure anyone to buy and are so flexible. I think just the opposite has become true.

People buy DVC. At some point most will want to sell. Not everyone wants it for 50 years. So why does DVC need to make so much effort to stop resales? What do they expect owners who own DVC and no longer want it to do? I know. Just hand your contract back to DVC for nothing. Or better maybe they prefer you continue to pay your dues, not use the points, and let them make reservations with them and pocket all the money.

I don’t really care about what the “can” do. Can’t they just give it a break and realize that there will always be resales?

I've been saying this for years, here and elsewhere, Disney doesn't want to kill resales, they want to control resales. I have a friend who went to an early OKW sales pitch and they said "You'll have it for life and your kids will want one after they move out too. After all, this is Disney!!" I have a cousin who has a 300 pt contract at BWV and another 600 at SSR. He bought both direct. He bought 900 because he has 3 kids and each get 300 points when him and his wife pass away. This is what Disney expected and planned for.

Resales means people don't want or like Disney vacations for life. The guides all drank the Koolaid. Sure, people pass away, have a change in economic status, whatever happens in their lives. But Disney never expected to ever see this many resale contracts. They want to control their market, and that's what the changes do, making people think more about buying direct. It's why they have ROFR, to keep prices artificially inflated. Killing resales is only a byproduct.

And hey, DVC at least has some value in resales. No other timeshare does. I have a friend who bought 2 timeshares in Aruba. He wanted to get rid of one of them. It took him 4 years to dump it at .25 on the $1.

 

[Frederic Civish]

They at least grandfathered old owners in.

Maybe I am wrong, but I feel like they generally MUST grandfather current owners, with any changes that they make, to take away benefits. If not, then they would literally be taking something away from current owners, and that would lead to all kinds of issues and legal challenges. If nothing else, legally, once you set a pattern of behaviour, pr ownership, or usage or whatever, and it goes on for a while, it starts to carry some weight and validity of its own. An example is if you have the right to sue someone for something that they regularly do, but you don't sue them. Several years down the road, when you go to sue, you might find out that you can't, because, by letting them establish the pattern without fighting it, you were, in essence, giving tacit permission, which now carries some legal weight. I'm not sure if this is making sense to anyone. Anyway, by grandfathering current owners on any new changes, they don't take anything away from THOSE ESTABLISHED OWNERS, so they don't face legal consequences, but they do take rights or benefits away from NEW owners, who can be presumed to be agreeing to the new restrictions, because they buy with the restrictions in place.

 

[Frederic Civish]

Isn't the cancellation up until 31 days out, with no penalty?

 

[DenLo]

Isn't the cancellation up until 31 days out, with no penalty?

The 31 days out for cancellation is for a point reservation only. I couldn't find what you are referring to, but most of this discussion is regarding purchasing points at the Riviera.

Florida law provides that a purchaser for timeshare has a 10 day period in which they can cancel the contract without penalty.

 

[AdamsMum]

People know what they are buying into.

Do they? Will sales people fully disclose the new rule? You can only research the effect of this rule if you know about it. I'd hazard a guess that most new DVC buyers have never been on these boards.