DVC or Wyndham

[HHSTigerFan]

Can someone just please make it simple for me???

When searching thru Ebay for a Wyndham timeshare and see them basically giving them away, what do I want to look for and what do I want to avoid?

We are just looking for something thats a good deal and will allow us an occasional stay away from Disney... If we can really get these for almost free and the maint. fees aren't going to kill us, would be interested into looking at this.. And honestly, not real fussy about where we stay as long as we could do different things each year..

 

[Brian Noble]

There are really only two things that matter: the maintenance fee ratio, and the home resort. There is a *wide* variation in fees per point in the system, for a variety of reasons. It can vary by as much as a factor of two. Having a lower ratio gives you both less expensive vacations, and a way to market your property later if you want to sell it. For example, my ratio is about $3.85/K. That's not the absolute lowest in the system, but it is pretty close. I've seen them as high as $7+. You can expect to pay a little more for the really low-ratio deeds, but not much more.

Home resort *might* matter if you have a very specific need, but for most people it probably doesn't. Some folks also prefer a home resort that has an owner-managed board of directors rather than a developer-managed one. (My home resort has an all-owner board.) After that, it's just a matter of how many points.

One caveat: if you're seriously thinking about buying Wyndham, I'd encourage you to look to one of the private resellers. I bought mine from Tom Cornelius. It was my first ever timeshare purchase, and it was helpful to have someone to answer questions. Taking a quick look at Tom's site, it looks like he might no longer be carrying Wyndham. But, there are others---the Wyndham owners group has a list somewhere. The ebay listings are from bulk resellers who sometimes get details wrong---and some are important. If you really know the system well, you can usually spot these errors, but someone new to the system would probably not notice them until it was too late. A private reseller will charge you a little bit more, but you'll have more confidence that the transaction will go smoothly.

 

[culli]

I went ebay for all 4 of mine and while I wish I had Brian's MFs which should not be considered the norm - his are VERY LOW!!! I would say anything under $5 per 1k pts is doing pretty good. Mine are at $4.7 and I consider that to be pretty good. It should be lower but I made a stupid math mistake and have one about $5.20 per 1k and I still can't believe I did that - live and learn and double check your numbers!!! Keep in mind that the lower the MF ratio and desire of a resort for 13 month the more you will pay. YOU REALLY REALLY have to watch MFs per 1k this can make Wyndham expensive and I wouldn't even look at anything over $5 even if it was free with with free closing costs. Ok this might seem difficult but I just do a search on ebay for Wyndham go to timeshares forsale with a calculator and figure out the MF ratio, if it is reasonable I hit the watch button. Then I go back and see if any of are interest. Here is a quick checklist which won't include everything:

1. MF's - did I mention this is important? I have 651k pts if I had Brian's MF ratio that would save me about $600 every year, and if I took some of those "free everything plus another TS deal" with MF's at $7 it would cost me over $1400 a year more - for me pts are pts
2. I do your normal ebay seller review, check feedback, accuracy of listing etc. Then I go to TUG and do a search on seller and closing company and a few other things. IF anyone had issues with them more than likely someone will have posted it on TUG boards. If not sure post a question if anyone has experience with a seller on the TUG Wyn forum.
3. If I make the decesion to move on it, I request an estopel from the seller. The seller may balk at this but demand one and if they won't give it to you, tell them everyone else does I will pass - go to next auction (plenty of them out there).
4. Review the estopel it is from Wyndham and yeah it will just be a piece of paper with handwriting. Verify the MFs, pts etc to the listing. Yes the seller may get some wrong, I have let it go after I won then call them on it. It has saved me money as I negoitate after the fact, and say hey I will leave you neg feedback as your listing was wrong.
5. I try to call Wyndham and see if I can get info from them, I have most of the info to get by their security questons, it has worked a few times and hasn't a few other. Not that important but it sometimes works to make me feel better.
6. Follow the procedures and every few weeks I call the closing company or shoot them an e-mail - squeeky wheel. Once deed get to Wyndham I then call them sometimes everyday to push things through. The last one I had was silly easy with the closing co, everything online took paypal. Wyn screwed it up but not seller or closings fault.

My experience, 1st one I did went smooth and was done in 2 months. Next 2 a little bumpy but at the time Wyn allowed transfer of points (they don't allow this anymore). So I didn't care as I had the pts in my account so taking longer really didn't effect me much. Last one took about 6 months and this was Wyndhams fault, they lost docs and dragged their feet. I called and beat on the closing co and I admit it wasn't their fault but I didn't care. I pushed on them and they refunded half my closing as I said I would walk from the sale. Which is odd as I'm not sure how I could have done it at that point but they were sick of hearing from me.

I don't think Tom handles Wyn anymore since the transfer changes and a few other things. I think he also did some mega renting of pts. I spoke with a few times and he was very nice and knowlegable. The problem I had is he wanted a big premium over what I could get from ebay. However, I'm a take risk guy so I did it this way - did I save? Maybe maybe not but just like anything you have to pay for a service. However, if he is available and you are not sure I would definately go to him. In the long run I could have probably gotten better MF ratios with him which pays off. But I think he was winding down his inventory at the time and the ones with nice MFs were priced pretty high?

This may all sound confusing but remember what you get. My pts would have cost me around $50-70k from a developer (rumor has it developer costs are anywhere from $84-110 per 1k - I'm really not sure), my total cost was about $2500 with closing.........is all this worth saving that much money I SAY YES - I wish I could get my DVC pts like this - I bet Jason wouldn't want that

BTW I have dealt with Jason on a DVC resale and I highly recomend him, he is very easy to deal with and great follow up!

 

[HHSTigerFan]

Using this one as an example, fees seem cheap, wouldnt be my first choice of places to stay, but whats the negatives of grabbing this and booking elsewhere???


http://cgi.ebay.com/Wyndham-126K-PO...md=ViewItem&pt=Timeshares&hash=item53e23e1bd3

On second glance, see that its every other year.. which would be good for us, but then the fees are above the $5/1000 you mentioned..

 

[dianeschlicht]

I own both, as a matter of fact, and I am using both this summer for my vacation. We have a week at Daytona Ocean Walk (which we LOVE) and a 5-nighter at SSR (which we LOVE).

Worldmark cost me very little, and allows me enough flexibility to go different places in 2-bedrooms. Disney cost me quite a bit more (understatement), and allows me to do at least 2 5-nighters a year, plus a long weekend in a studio if I use points carefully. I ONLY use Disney at Disney. I did trade Worldmark into BWV once before I owned DVC.

I wouldn't say one was better---they are very different systems, and I believe we have found a way to use both efficiently. Since you really can pick up Worldmark for very little...consider doing it my way and own both!!

That sounds like a perfect combination! I have often thought we should buy a cheap resale of another timeshare group for trading flexibility.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Yes, I saw some of that "directness" in some of the threads. I haven't asked any questions over there because I didn't know enough to ask anything intelligent...but I know what you mean. Yep. Personally, I'd like to know if I can get Disney's Free Dining at a Wyndham. Seems like if I exchange into a Wyndham with my DVC points, I should be able to bring the Free Dining with me and Wyndham should honor it...no?

Or is that only at 13 months?

(Now you just watch...within 24 hours there will be a thread over on the DVC Planning Board - "I heard I Could Get FREE DINING at Wyndham with my DVC Points!!!!!!")

LOL! JimMIA...the rumor starter!

 

[JimMIA]

LOL! JimMIA...the rumor starter!

Who...me?

I'm a Founding Member of the dreaded "Who ME? Gang!"

 

[JimMIA]

Quick question...

I know some of the Wyndham properties are out of the country. Is there any special risk buying a property in another country? Or are we really dealing with Wyndham in the US.

I guess what I'm really asking is where are the Wyndham timeshare deeds titled?

 

[culli]

Using this one as an example, fees seem cheap, wouldnt be my first choice of places to stay, but whats the negatives of grabbing this and booking elsewhere???


http://cgi.ebay.com/Wyndham-126K-PO...md=ViewItem&pt=Timeshares&hash=item53e23e1bd3

On second glance, see that its every other year.. which would be good for us, but then the fees are above the $5/1000 you mentioned..

I have them come at at $5.71 if you don't need the 13 month window I would pass hit the next one etc.

One thing I did forget to mention - if it passes the "sniff" test also make sure MFs include taxes as a few have them billed seperate.

A few that I have found that have decent MFs (some are bad at these resorts) - Kingsgate and the last one I got at Pagosa Springs, also the Smokies in Tenn, and the one in Vegas has had some good rates for examples to look at it. I happen to have Kingsgate and Pagosa springs.

 

[Brian Noble]

I know some of the Wyndham properties are out of the country. Is there any special risk buying a property in another country? Or are we really dealing with Wyndham in the US.

I guess what I'm really asking is where are the Wyndham timeshare deeds titled?

As with any real estate transaction the deed will be recorded in the jurisdiction in which the property is located. Some Wyndham properties (in Mexico, maybe others) are RTU not perpetual. Almost all of them are in the US, though, so this probably isn't a major concern.

 

[JimMIA]

As with any real estate transaction the deed will be recorded in the jurisdiction in which the property is located. Some Wyndham properties (in Mexico, maybe others) are RTU not perpetual. Almost all of them are in the US, though, so this probably isn't a major concern.

So closing could be much slower in another country, and if there was a dispute you'd be on their turf with any legal action. I'll stick to the good old USA!

 

[culli]

So closing could be much slower in another country, and if there was a dispute you'd be on their turf with any legal action. I'll stick to the good old USA!

I would try to keep it as simple stupid as possible. Overall if someone is looking at Wyndham it is a good deal if you want to stay in their resorts in the system. Easy to use great value right now.

People start getting confused when they try to do more advanced type things. Not saying you can't do that but the buy in and main purpose should be to use in the Wyn system. Like I said I bought to use at a Wyn about 1 hr from our house. I figured out how to expand my use of Wyn through RCI, pooling pts and a few other things. However that was not my main focus. Just like DVC if you buy in to use at WDW then hey for the most part it makes sense and is cost effective. If you buy in with the thought of trading, using for cruises, stay at the resort collection (or whatever they call it), or even as a source of possible rental income.......probably not the right product for you. It is nice to know you can do these various things, some are cost effective some not but use it for what it is meant to do then learn all the ancillary things later. If you stick with this concept both systems easy to use and should be worth your $$$.

 

[JimMIA]

I would try to keep it as simple stupid as possible. Overall if someone is looking at Wyndham it is a good deal if you want to stay in their resorts in the system. Easy to use great value right now.

People start getting confused when they try to do more advanced type things. Not saying you can't do that but the buy in and main purpose should be to use in the Wyn system. Like I said I bought to use at a Wyn about 1 hr from our house. I figured out how to expand my use of Wyn through RCI, pooling pts and a few other things. However that was not my main focus. Just like DVC if you buy in to use at WDW then hey for the most part it makes sense and is cost effective. If you buy in with the thought of trading, using for cruises, stay at the resort collection (or whatever they call it), or even as a source of possible rental income.......probably not the right product for you. It is nice to know you can do these various things, some are cost effective some not but use it for what it is meant to do then learn all the ancillary things later. If you stick with this concept both systems easy to use and should be worth your $$$.

I'm talking about Wyndham resorts and using the points in the Wyndham system

But I've seen some Wyndham resorts in Mexico and Canada, and was just wondering whether they presented more risk than a resort in the US -- for example, if there was a title problem.

 

[culli]

I'm talking about Wyndham resorts and using the points in the Wyndham system

But I've seen some Wyndham resorts in Mexico and Canada, and was just wondering whether they presented more risk than a resort in the US -- for example, if there was a title problem.

Sorry my other comments was just a general rant nothing specific to what you posted. I saw Brian already commented and was to lazy to take the quote off!!! But I would avoid it, why add any chance of complication unless it is a resort you are going to go all the time and need 13 month window.

 

[HHSTigerFan]

Outside of the MF fees, what else will we need to pay for with point ownership???

 

[JimMIA]

Outside of the MF fees, what else will we need to pay for with point ownership???

That's a good question, and one that I haven't fully covered with my research. Here's what I know so far:

There are some "nuisance fees" charged by Wyndham. With DVC, limited housekeeping and MS services are "free" in the sense that they are included in our MFs. With Wyndham, you are allotted a certain number of housekeeping credits and transaction credits to cover those things. If you exceed your allotment, you have to buy more credits. That usually happens if you use your points for multiple short stays or make a lot of cancellations, rebookings, or other MS-type transactions. Most Wyndham owners say those fees are no biggie as long as you plan properly.

[ETA: The transaction credits (I think) are only used to pay for transactions by phone to Wyndham's MS. They have an excellent online booking system, and that's free.]

There is also a fee for a "guest certificate" if the occupant of a villa is not the owner -- for example, you gave a stay to a friend or rented a reservation to someone.

What I would like to know about those fees is how much they are.

Also, if you exhange OUT through RCI, there is an RCI exchange fee ($129?). And if I'm not mistaken if you exchange into DVC, you have to pay both the RCI exchange fee and the $95 DVC exchange fee.

There may be some other fees that I'm not aware of, either with Wyndham or RCI.

 

[culli]

Outside of the MF fees, what else will we need to pay for with point ownership???

Depends on how you use your pts. You need to learn about guest certificates, transactions and housekeeping credits. I have yet to run out of HK or transactions and only used a GC once. You get one guest cert a year then they are $99. HK and Trans are given to you based on how many pts you own, I don't have the specifics off the top of my head but should be in the wyn primer or tug basics info on Wyn.

HK and trans fees only become an issue if you do a lot of short stay type trips or make and cancel ressies often. If you run out of either they can be bought I think a transaction online is about $30 and I'm not sure on HK credits. This is the ala carte that Brian mentioned. Again I have yet to have to purchase either so far.

 

[HHSTigerFan]

Thank you both VERY much, this seems much more confusing than DVC...

What I am thinking of doing is "buying" 154K some place with low MF's, but probably very rarely staying there.. are there fees involved if I stay at one of their properties that I don't specifically own?

 

[culli]

That's a good question, and one that I haven't fully covered with my research. Here's what I know so far:

There are some "nuisance fees" charged by Wyndham. With DVC, limited housekeeping and MS services are "free" in the sense that they are included in our MFs. With Wyndham, you are allotted a certain number of housekeeping credits and transaction credits to cover those things. If you exceed your allottment, you have to buy more credits. That usually happens if you use your points for multiple short stays or make a lot of cancellations, rebookings, or other MS-type transactions. Most Wyndham owners say those fees are no biggie as long as you plan properly.

There is also a fee for a "guest certificate" if the occupant of a villa is not the owner -- for example, you gave a stay to a friend or rented a reservation to someone.

What I would like to know about those fees is how much they are.

Also, if you exhange OUT through RCI, there is an RCI exchange fee ($129?). And if I'm not mistaken if you exchange into DVC, you have to pay both the RCI exchange fee and the $95 DVC exchange fee.

There may be some other fees that I'm not aware of, either with Wyndham or RCI.

Jim - wow look how much you are learning already. You say this makes your head spin but your have a good grasp on it already!!!

RCI fees - is not a Wyndham fee thing. This is true regardless of what timeshare you are trading in RCI, I think to trade out of DVC you get this charge too? The $95 fee is a DISNEY thing not RCI, heck Disney charges DVC members $95 if you exchange your DVC pts into one of the non DVC WDW resorts. This $95 was true when DVC went through II, again Disney charges this - they claim it is to cover ME and MS type stuff. It has a lot of exchangers angry because most resorts don't charge this and most consider it BS.

 

[culli]

Thank you both VERY much, this seems much more confusing than DVC...

What I am thinking of doing is "buying" 154K some place with low MF's, but probably very rarely staying there.. are there fees involved if I stay at one of their properties that I don't specifically own?

No - you get 154k pts and at 10 months you can use it within the Wyndham system. At 10 months pts are pts just like it doesn't matter if you own at BLT, SSR, VB etc at 7 months you can use them at any DVC resort if there is availability.

Honestly it is not really that confusing. I had someone who bought Wyndham from developer not have a clue of how to use her pts. She asked me to help her, I spent like 30 mins with her and she has all the basics down to include an idea of RCI exchanges. The developer had her so confused it was crazy. Now I didn't dispute some of the other BS stuff they told her about VIP etc. Was kind of funny to have someone not have a clue look down on me as I was inferior that I bought resale. Didn't have the heart to tell her I got 3x's the pts she does for $20k less AND I KNOW HOW to use them!!!!!!