DVC Kiosk Sales Misinformation!!

[OneMoreTry]

I don't think OP is getting "too worked up."

Such a sales pitch is ethically wrong.

DVC is responsible. If they support this then they are no better than a stereotypical used car lot. Their reputation WILL suffer and the reputation of Disney will suffer.

This desperate salesman should be out pitching ShamWow or other "As Seen on TV" crap. Or actual used cars.

 

[LIFERBABE]

I don't think OP is getting "too worked up."

Such a sales pitch is ethically wrong.

DVC is responsible. If they support this then they are no better than a stereotypical used car lot. Their reputation WILL suffer and the reputation of Disney will suffer.

This desperate salesman should be out pitching ShamWow or other "As Seen on TV" crap. Or actual used cars.

Totally agree! Or selling Appliances!

We should not be so willing to give DVC a pass because they have a POS. We did that with the Point Reallocation but many people did not take that lying down and effected change. DVC brought back the small point add ons at BLT because of the uproar (and the economy )
It's never ok to lie cheat and steal to get what you want.

 

[M-I-C-K-E-Y]

Thanks Sammie - you didn't get "worked up" and many of us appreciate your bringing this topic to the "front burner."

 

[Brian Noble]

DVC kiosk representatives are employed specifically for selling time shares.

Not quite. The kiosk folks are employed specifically to get you to take a tour. It's the Guides who sell. In the parlance of the industry, the kiosk reps are known as "body snatchers." They don't close the deal---and if you've seen Glengarry Glen Ross, you know that coffee's for closers.

The kiosk reps ought to know enough to at least know when to say, "That's a question that we can really answer best on the tour, when we can explain the whole system in detail." There's just no question about it.

However, WDW staff are not exactly well-known for being able to correctly and consistenly answer questions more complicated than "When is the 3 o'clock parade?" In light of that, it might be unreasonable to expect the body snatchers in the kiosks to do what no one else in the company seems to be capable of.

And, this whole profit thing is not recent---it goes all the way back to the ol' Mousestro himself. If you read any of the competent Disney biographies, it's clear that even though Walt cultivated the "kind old uncle" persona and made Roy out to be the sharp-pencil heavy, he was a pretty darn shrewd businessman in his own right.

 

[Dean]

Disney gives you 10 days to cancel because it's Florida law, not because they are being nice. Disney has always had a higher standard and most buyers assume that buying a Disney DVC Membership is different than buying something else. Sadly it isn't.

Buyers really need to do their homework and rent points to check things out before they buy.

DVC used to be 15 days when FL law was 10, they changed it a number of years ago.

Do we really expect the lying "seat filler" to post here?

Plus she said I could "GASP" RENT MY POINTS!
(I know we can, but people dont believe that DVC sells this way):

Does it matter if they post? Sometimes when you overhear a conversation you don't get the full flavor and can easily misinterpret. Personally I'm inclined to believe it happened exactly as suggested but the bottom line is we really don't have all the facts. As a CM they couldn't post about this even if they wanted to. As for renting, DVC guides have suggested renting many times over the years, this is nothing new nor novel.

Thanks to everyone that understood why this upset me. I really like my DVC, I can accept changes that enhance the membership even if they personally do not affect me in a positive manner.

But Disneynutz very accurately described what is happening at Disney and DVC lately and I find it very upsetting.

If as members we do not put checks and balances on the way DVC is run, pretty soon we will all lose out.

Just because I like DVC does not mean I have to accept everything they do without questioning the reason or the manner in which they do it.

I don't expect a kiosk worker to have all the information, I do expect them to be able to answer specific questions with accurate information or if not, then to refer that question to someone that can.

Sammie, I think we all would agree on this information as presented from this post. However, as an excuse for one to buy not understanding what they were getting into, not at all.

 

[ILoveMyDVC]

Did anyone notice in this month's just delivered Disney Files
the
"Pesky Timeshare Regulations" quote -

boy, doesn't that say it all. Gosh, I just hate when states enact laws to protect those pesky consumers.

 

[stopher1]

Did anyone notice in this month's just delivered Disney Files
the
"Pesky Timeshare Regulations" quote -

boy, doesn't that say it all. Gosh, I just hate when states enact laws to protect those pesky consumers.

I noticed that when I read the article about VGC today - but honestly I didn't take it too seriously. It seemed more tongue in cheek to me since in CA they can't really so much as sneeze until everything is in place and ready to go. I was disappointed with the issue simply because I was hoping it would be mostly about VGC, not Ko Olina - but oh well, I guess the next issue will be since VGC will be on sale to more than just Founders by the time the next issue comes out.

As far as the OP and the general dialogue of this thread goes, I tend to agree with you Sammie - it was uncalled for on the part of the Advance Planner/Drafter/Scheduler CM goes. I agree that to the untrained eye (i.e. your average tourist simply on vacation at Disney, not those of us here on these boards that are a bit more, shall I say into it all quite regularly, more versed, etc) - but to the average eye these CM's simply represent Disney - regardless of whether or not they are licensed to sell or not. Most folks that talk to the kiosk reps have no clue as to the difference... (perhaps they should be wearing some sort of logo or additional info on their nametag could help differentiate them). I don't think you got all worked up either, Sammie.

I totally understand the frustration, however, on both sides of the equation. I am in the financial industry, working on the lending side of the equation, but also representing our investment products. I am licensed to talk about our investment products to clients in most of the states within my region, but not ALL of them (17 of 20). But BEFORE I was licensed at all - I had to walk the line VERY, VERY carefully in how I answered questions about the investment products, making sure to pass along the ones I couldn't answer to a teammate who was licensed - and sometimes it truly wasn't easy. I would imagine the same kind of thing happens in those kiosks, especially after x number of hours of standing there answering the same stuff over and over again. Theoretically Disney "should" have a mix of licensed and unlicensed CM's working together to help alleviate the concerns, but the financial reality of keeping the guides at the kiosks instead of selling is prohibitive. Training "should" be better, but it is what it is. When it comes down to it - Disney markets these kiosks ALL OVER WDW and DL, and then doesn't appear to maintain quality assurance, at least based on the OP's experience. When push comes to shove, however, regardless of how it gets represented at the kiosk - it's up to the individual potential member to speak with a guide, and read through the literature provided. At that point if they don't understand what they're buying, it's their fault.

 

[LIFERBABE]

Does it matter if they post? Sometimes when you overhear a conversation you don't get the full flavor and can easily misinterpret. Personally I'm inclined to believe it happened exactly as suggested but the bottom line is we really don't have all the facts. As a CM they couldn't post about this even if they wanted to. As for renting, DVC guides have suggested renting many times over the years, this is nothing new nor novel.

What Sammie described was not a half heard conversation and how many ways is there to misinterpret "you can stay anywhere" but everytime someone reports something here, we get the "1 side of the story" defense.

We know we are getting it, that's why we are here and not on disneyworld.com.

Yes, DVC guides continue to tell us we can rent, and it is allowable under the POS, but how many times have you corrected posters here when they say that renting is a violation of the rules and DVC does not allow it?

Just making the point that these DVC reps do say these things and it is not all misinterpretation or hearing what we want to hear.

 

[SunnieRN]

Bottom line is, if you don't know an answer to the question, say so. Also volunteering incorrect information is totally unnecessary. Most people who walk up to a kiosk are already a captive audience and somewhat interested already. No need to lie.

 

[Dean]

What Sammie described was not a half heard conversation and how many ways is there to misinterpret "you can stay anywhere" but everytime someone reports something here, we get the "1 side of the story" defense.

We know we are getting it, that's why we are here and not on disneyworld.com.

Yes, DVC guides continue to tell us we can rent, and it is allowable under the POS, but how many times have you corrected posters here when they say that renting is a violation of the rules and DVC does not allow it?

Just making the point that these DVC reps do say these things and it is not all misinterpretation or hearing what we want to hear.

We don't truly know it was then entire conversation, as I stated, I suspect it was accurate but we don't know for certain.

 

[jco_direwolf]

We don't truly know it was then entire conversation, as I stated, I suspect it was accurate but we don't know for certain.

This is what I was about to say. Add to it, there are very subtle differences in the way questions are asked, which the answers may be radically different.

A lot of times the answers I've heard where correct for the question the way it was phrased. But not what I believe the person was asking.

But I agree, the contracts you sign are the binding answer to your questions. I also like to apply Occam's Razor to things like this. Did the guide lie (knowing say something that is untrue), not understand the question, answer the question the guest asked, or was just misinformed? (I'd lean to the last 2 answers.)

johno

ps. I'm an engineer not a lawyer.

 

[tjkraz]

Welcome to the new DVC and some wonder why we want it back the way it was.

I was with ya, Sammie, right up to this point. Do you HONESTLY think that these things NEVER happened 10+ years ago??? If so, I can't join you on that one.

I've been a DVC follower for 8+ years and, if anything, the volume of complaints like you describe seems to be declining. I don't see nearly as many "it's only August--why can't I get a room for early December?" or "my Guide said I could always book BCV!!" posts as we did just 2-3 years ago.

Posts suggesting that people were misinformed / mislead / misunderstood during any form of sales contact with DVC are hardly new. Let's not pretend that the same thing wasn't going on back in your good 'ole days.

 

[Sammie]

I was with ya, Sammie, right up to this point. Do you HONESTLY think that these things NEVER happened 10+ years ago??? If so, I can't join you on that one.

I've been a DVC follower for 8+ years and, if anything, the volume of complaints like you describe seems to be declining. I don't see nearly as many "it's only August--why can't I get a room for early December?" or "my Guide said I could always book BCV!!" posts as we did just 2-3 years ago.

Posts suggesting that people were misinformed / mislead / misunderstood during any form of sales contact with DVC are hardly new. Let's not pretend that the same thing wasn't going on back in your good 'ole days.

Maybe you are right. It just never happened to me, so I guess in that sense I was lucky or naive. It just did not seem to me, based on personal experience, that there was such a focus on pushing the sales of DVC until recently.

For example the first DVC cruise was about the members, those that followed changed with the focus being more about sales. Member meetings are now more sales focused. Member issues are brushed off. Sales questions are welcomed. Information sent to members on a timely basis is sales oriented, information about changes to the existing membership is at best poorly handled and often inaccurate. Even the DVC magazine has changed to be more a promotion about what is new and available for sale, than the exisiting resorts.

And actually the point of even sharing this, which at this time I am second guessing, had no idea I would have to defend my honesty in doing so, is that I can now understand why some members were so upset about the recent changes in point allocation because truly they were told by DVC respresentatives that it would not happen.

And before anyone comes back and says Buyers should protect themselves, it is still not what Disney was about in the years that I bought based on my personal experience.

And Dean, you are right you don't know it was the entire conversation anymore than I know that what you report is accurate. I guess everyone has to make that decision on their own. However it is not very hard to understand a simple question like "can I stay at the Grand Floridian and it not cost me anything to use DVC to book there?"

DVC advertises on their DVC website about values and tradition and I think they have forgotten what that acutally means. And Yes I know not everyone that works for DVC has forgotten; but one rotten apple can spoil the entire barrel and I felt sorry for this guy trying his best to get accurate info only to be so mislead.

As many others have stated if they can't be accurate then simply state that. I would have been willing to possibly consider the kiosk worker was simply misinformed on the product he was promoting, until he stated he was a DVC member and had used his membership many times. After that I truly felt he was not being very honest with this guest. His response to me when questioned further supported this.

I still think many of you are missing the point of my even sharing this. When people get on here and are upset over changes to DVC, cut them some slack. Maybe they truly were told by DVC that points will never change and even though everyone making a purchase should do their homework, at some point those doing the selling have to be held responsible for thier actions too. You can't put all the blame on the buyer.

 

[LIFERBABE]

I still think many of you are missing the point of my even sharing this. When people get on here and are upset over changes to DVC, cut them some slack. Maybe they truly were told by DVC that points will never change and even though everyone making a purchase should do their homework, at some point those doing the selling have to be held responsible for thier actions too. You can't put all the blame on the buyer.

I completely agree

We are quick to make excuses for DVC but the buyer should be an all knowing being with a third eye and psychic abilities.

 

[Brian Noble]

You can't put all the blame on the buyer.

Perhaps. But, if there is ever a purchase in which the buyer holds the lions share of the blame, it is a timeshare, becuase the buyer has to initial/sign a clause that says "Anything verbal doesn't count."

Once you initial that clause, it's really hard to go back and say "But my Guide told me..." I absolutely believe that many many Members were told that point values could not change. Doesn't matter. The contract says they can.

And, to be clear, I'm not making excuses for DVC. In fact, I don't trust them any farther than I can throw one of 'em. They aren't as bad as most, but they are still selling timeshares, and you know the old saying: they only lie when their lips are moving.

 

[puntagordabob]

Or the boat captains who insisted that the monorail would be running right through the Swan and Dolphin!

While that has not materialized...they did in fact build them both with rooms that could be removed without messing with the structural integrity of the resorts for precisely this use...so at least some truth here....just never panned out....but in 20 or 50 years who knows!

 

[Dean]

Yes, DVC guides continue to tell us we can rent, and it is allowable under the POS, but how many times have you corrected posters here when they say that renting is a violation of the rules and DVC does not allow it?

Correcting factually inaccurate info is a problem exactly how? I know some are hoping that newbies will get that idea and assume it's correct.

I still think many of you are missing the point of my even sharing this. When people get on here and are upset over changes to DVC, cut them some slack. Maybe they truly were told by DVC that points will never change and even though everyone making a purchase should do their homework, at some point those doing the selling have to be held responsible for thier actions too. You can't put all the blame on the buyer.

Each issue would have to be evaluated on it's own merit. One needs to understand the product that was purchased truly before purchase. Not a lot of sympathy if the paperwork says one thing and the guide or OPC says another as in the reservation change or reallocation even if they were specifically told otherwise by the guide. I can and do feel for anyone who is adversely affected but that's different that thinking the change was inappropriate or DVC was somehow wrong in doing so. Some said they understood the rules, knew it could happen, were adversely affected and disappointed but understood that was a personal feeling and no more. That is fair and appropriate. Calling DVC names or questioning their integrity for such a change is an entirely different matter that ONLY reflects on that person in a negative way and demonstrates their lack of understanding of the product in these two situations.

 

[LIFERBABE]

Correcting factually inaccurate info is a problem exactly how? I know some are hoping that newbies will get that idea and assume it's correct.

Dean, I did not say it was a problem that you correct the misinformation. I dont see it as a problem at all.

And yes I agree with you that some continue to post it so that the new members will think it is not allowed or "frowned" upon by DVC.



-

 

[Poohs Pal]

I don't think that it matters whether they are "drafters" or not. This gent, and possibly others, are misrepresenting DVC. They should be trained to such a level that they are not out there ignorant of the program (or simply lying to folks). It's not "rocket science" - they should be able to accurately answer questions and get people over to SSR for "the talk."

It's a thin excuse to simply state that they are only "drafters."

I completly agree....... Susan

 

[OneMoreTry]

Perhaps. But, if there is ever a purchase in which the buyer holds the lions share of the blame, it is a timeshare, becuase the buyer has to initial/sign a clause that says "Anything verbal doesn't count."

Once you initial that clause, it's really hard to go back and say "But my Guide told me..." I absolutely believe that many many Members were told that point values could not change. Doesn't matter. The contract says they can.

And, to be clear, I'm not making excuses for DVC. In fact, I don't trust them any farther than I can throw one of 'em. They aren't as bad as most, but they are still selling timeshares, and you know the old saying: they only lie when their lips are moving.

Many people who remember the actual Walt from the 40's and 50's hold his word and the word of anyone who represents him in high esteem. Regardless of any checkbox.

There was a time, as it were, that a man's word was as good as a written contract. Thats what Main Street USA is supposed to remind us of. Disney represents that time.

Now I know all the legal blah blah blah and caveat emptor spit that everyone here has posted. BUT, when someone representing the Disney company in any way shape or form looks people in the eye and shakes their hands, some of those people take their words to heart because of who they represent.

Disney can hide behind bucketfuls of lawyers, dumping their BS all over the place "a la the sorcerer's apprentice." But then they are playing the villain hiding in Walt clothing.

So yea yea yea, everyone beware of everything. But if any corporation wants to be noted as a cut above, they should begin with decency and reliability and honesty at the point of a sale. Disney can do what they choose. The world is watching.