DVC Kiosk Sales Misinformation!!

[Brian Noble]

I think you quoted the wrong post. The one about Walt was earlier.

Nevertheless, I think it's fair to say that, on balance, the DVC staff are pretty reasonable. Sometimes they get the details wrong, but that's as likely due to poor training (or simple human foibles) rather than some grand scheme to dupe people out of their money. I teach at a top-20 university. The kids in my classes are smart. And, if I had a dollar for every time one of them asked a question that was already answered in the assignment that they already had read, I'd double my salary overnight. Napoleon put it best: Never ascribe to malice that which can be explained by incompetence.

 

[Dean]

Dean, I did not say it was a problem that you correct the misinformation. I dont see it as a problem at all.

And yes I agree with you that some continue to post it so that the new members will think it is not allowed or "frowned" upon by DVC.



-

Thanks for the clarification. I was looking at this info from all angles and was trying to figure out what you were trying to say. The only explanation I could see was you were either chastising me about it or agreeing with me and it seemed the former. I'm glad you responded otherwise, thanks.

But if any corporation wants to be noted as a cut above, they should begin with decency and reliability and honesty at the point of a sale. Disney can do what they choose. The world is watching.

IMO, DVC can still hold their heads up. Employees make mistakes and it is a training opportunity for DVD OR an opportunity to weed out poor performers if applicable. IMO, one needs to be cautious about taking it on ourselves to correct CM. That's not to say it's inappropriate in some situations (including this one), just that one needs to be careful. Had I been Sammy in that situation I likely would have done the same thing. Had I gotten the same response I would either have asked the CM directly to speak to their supervisor OR gotten their name and immediately called sales and ask for a supervisor. Had I not had time to have done that then, I would have recorded their name and location and contacted DVC corporate directly likely by email. Still, it will never be perfect and there will always be outliers for whatever reason (zealous, dishonest, too aggressive, etc). We've seen them before at a much more important position such as the sales guides themselves (even supervisors) including some that actually lied and some that didn't know their product well enough to be reliable to even discuss a purchase with. Fortunately these type are unusual with most good timeshare companies including DVC, but they do get in and usually don't stay too long.

 

[jco_direwolf]

While that has not materialized...they did in fact build them both with rooms that could be removed without messing with the structural integrity of the resorts for precisely this use...so at least some truth here....just never panned out....but in 20 or 50 years who knows!

I would like to see the evidence you have for this. As near as I can tell it's a total rumor. And the big black square that people point at and say "That is where it was going to enter" is in fact something that Graves has used on other buildings (Not at Disney World.)

You can check out all ears as it has a decent write-up.

so was the monorail going to run to the Hyatt in San Diego?

johno

 

[Deb & Bill]

I would like to see the evidence you have for this. As near as I can tell it's a total rumor. And the big black square that people point at and say "That is where it was going to enter" is in fact something that Graves has used on other buildings (Not at Disney World.)

You can check out all ears as it has a decent write-up.

so was the monorail going to run to the Hyatt in San Diego?

johno

Love it, John. I knew the architectural style also, but hadn't seen any photos of other buildings he had built.

 

[disneynutz]

Many people who remember the actual Walt from the 40's and 50's hold his word and the word of anyone who represents him in high esteem. Regardless of any checkbox.

There was a time, as it were, that a man's word was as good as a written contract. Thats what Main Street USA is supposed to remind us of. Disney represents that time.

So yea yea yea, everyone beware of everything. But if any corporation wants to be noted as a cut above, they should begin with decency and reliability and honesty at the point of a sale. Disney can do what they choose. The world is watching.

The world may be watching, but most don't really seem to care. Corporations today get way to big and loose focus. Instead of being really good at a couple of businesses, they run 30 or 40 average businesses.

If a few don't do well, they get rid of them as Disney did with their stores, which they have now bought back. Because they are so big they really need to push everybody to make enough money to feed the beast. As a result some Cast Members may do or say things that aren't Walt like.

Here are Disney's companies:
Walt Disney Pictures
Touchstone Pictures
Hollywood Pictures
Miramax Films
Pixar
WLS - Chicago
WJRT - Flint
KFSN - Fresno
KTRK - Houston
KABC - Los Angeles
WABC - New York City
WPVI - Philadelphia
WTVD - Raleigh - Durham
KGO - San Francisco
WTVG - Toledo
ESPN (80%)
ESPN2 (80%)
ESPN Classic (80%)
ESPNU (80%)
ESPNEWS (80%)
ABC Family
Disney Channel
Toon Disney
SOAPnet
Lifetime Network (partial)
Lifetime Movie Network (partial)
Lifetime Real Women (partial)
A&E (partial)
A&E International (partial)
Jetix Europe (partial)
Jetix Latin America
The History Channel (partial)
Lifetime Real Women (partial)
ABC Radio
WDWD – Atlanta
WMVP – Chicago
WLS – Chicago
KESN – Dallas
KMKI – Dallas-Forth Worth
KRDY – San Antonio
WCOG – Greensboro, NC
WRDZ – Indianapolis
KABC – Los Angeles
KLOS – Los Angeles
KDIS – Los Angeles
KSPN – Los Angeles
KDIZ – Minneapolis - St. Paul
WKSH – Milwaukee, WI
WEVD – New York City
KDZR – Portland, OR
KWDZ – Salt Lake City
KIID – Sacramento
KMKY – Oakland
KQAM – Wichita
KKDZ – Seattle
WSDZ – St. Louis
WWMK – Cleveland
KMIK – Phoenix
KDDZ – Denver
WWMI – Tampa
KMIC – Houston
WMYM – Miami
WBWL – Jacksonville
WBYU – New Orleans
KDIS – Little Rock
WWJZ – Philadelphia
WWJZ – Philadelphia
WMKI – Boston
WDZK – Hartford
WDDZ – Providence
WDZY – Richmond
WGFY – Charlotte
WDYZ – Orlando
WMNE – West Palm Beach
WEAE – Pittsburgh
WDRD – Louisville
WDDY – Albany, NY
KPHN – Kansas City
WQUA – Mobile
WBML – Jacksonville
WFDF – Detroit
WFRO – Fremont, OH
WDMV – Damascus, MD
WHKT – Norfolk Radio Disney
ESPN Radio (syndicated programming)
Walt Disney Records
Hollywood Records
Lyric Street Records
Hyperion
Miramax Books
ESPN Books
Theia
ABC Daytime Press
Hyperion eBooks
Hyperion East
Disney Publishing Worldwide
Cal Publishing Inc.
CrossGen
Hyperion Books for Children
Jump at the Sun
Volo
Michael di Caupa Books
Disney Global Children's Books
Disney Press
Disney Editions
Disney Libri
Global Retail
Global Continuity
Automotive Industries Magazine
Biography (with GE and Hearst) Magazine
Discover Magazine
Disney Adventures Magazine
Disney Magazine
ECN News Magazine
ESPN Magazine (distributed by Hearst)
Family Fun Magazine
Institutional Investor Magazine
JCK Magazine
Kodin Magazine
Top Famille - French family magazine
US Weekly (50%)
Video Business Magazine
Quality Magazine
Wondertime Magazine
Walt Disney Imagineering
Disneyland Resort
Walt Disney World Resort
Tokyo Disney Resort
Disneyland Resort Paris
Hong Kong Disneyland
Disney Vacation Club
Disney Cruise Line
Disney Theatrical Productions
Disney Live Family Entertainment
Disney on Ice
The Disney Store
Club Penguins
ESPN Zone
Disney Toys
Disney Apparel, Accessories and Footwear
Disney Food, Health and Beauty
Disney Home Furnishings and Decor
Disney Stationery
Disney Consumer Economics
The Baby Einstein Company
Muppets Holding Company
Disney Interactive Studios
Walt Disney Internet Group

No wonder they loose focus.

 

[doconeill]

While that has not materialized...they did in fact build them both with rooms that could be removed without messing with the structural integrity of the resorts for precisely this use...so at least some truth here....just never panned out....but in 20 or 50 years who knows!

This has always been an urban legend, and the designer himself has debunked it. There are quite a few logical reason why if you just thought about it it wouldn't be true.

Yesterland had a good article on it.

 

[stopher1]

The world may be watching, but most don't really seem to care. Corporations today get way to big and loose focus. Instead of being really good at a couple of businesses, they run 30 or 40 average businesses.

If a few don't do well, they get rid of them as Disney did with their stores, which they have now bought back. Because they are so big they really need to push everybody to make enough money to feed the beast. As a result some Cast Members may do or say things that aren't Walt like.

Here are Disney's companies:
Walt Disney Pictures
Touchstone Pictures
Hollywood Pictures
Miramax Films
Pixar
WLS - Chicago
WJRT - Flint
KFSN - Fresno
KTRK - Houston
KABC - Los Angeles
WABC - New York City
WPVI - Philadelphia
WTVD - Raleigh - Durham
KGO - San Francisco
WTVG - Toledo
ESPN (80%)
ESPN2 (80%)
ESPN Classic (80%)
ESPNU (80%)
ESPNEWS (80%)
ABC Family
Disney Channel
Toon Disney
SOAPnet
Lifetime Network (partial)
Lifetime Movie Network (partial)
Lifetime Real Women (partial)
A&E (partial)
A&E International (partial)
Jetix Europe (partial)
Jetix Latin America
The History Channel (partial)
Lifetime Real Women (partial)
ABC Radio
WDWD – Atlanta
WMVP – Chicago
WLS – Chicago
KESN – Dallas
KMKI – Dallas-Forth Worth
KRDY – San Antonio
WCOG – Greensboro, NC
WRDZ – Indianapolis
KABC – Los Angeles
KLOS – Los Angeles
KDIS – Los Angeles
KSPN – Los Angeles
KDIZ – Minneapolis - St. Paul
WKSH – Milwaukee, WI
WEVD – New York City
KDZR – Portland, OR
KWDZ – Salt Lake City
KIID – Sacramento
KMKY – Oakland
KQAM – Wichita
KKDZ – Seattle
WSDZ – St. Louis
WWMK – Cleveland
KMIK – Phoenix
KDDZ – Denver
WWMI – Tampa
KMIC – Houston
WMYM – Miami
WBWL – Jacksonville
WBYU – New Orleans
KDIS – Little Rock
WWJZ – Philadelphia
WWJZ – Philadelphia
WMKI – Boston
WDZK – Hartford
WDDZ – Providence
WDZY – Richmond
WGFY – Charlotte
WDYZ – Orlando
WMNE – West Palm Beach
WEAE – Pittsburgh
WDRD – Louisville
WDDY – Albany, NY
KPHN – Kansas City
WQUA – Mobile
WBML – Jacksonville
WFDF – Detroit
WFRO – Fremont, OH
WDMV – Damascus, MD
WHKT – Norfolk Radio Disney
ESPN Radio (syndicated programming)
Walt Disney Records
Hollywood Records
Lyric Street Records
Hyperion
Miramax Books
ESPN Books
Theia
ABC Daytime Press
Hyperion eBooks
Hyperion East
Disney Publishing Worldwide
Cal Publishing Inc.
CrossGen
Hyperion Books for Children
Jump at the Sun
Volo
Michael di Caupa Books
Disney Global Children's Books
Disney Press
Disney Editions
Disney Libri
Global Retail
Global Continuity
Automotive Industries Magazine
Biography (with GE and Hearst) Magazine
Discover Magazine
Disney Adventures Magazine
Disney Magazine
ECN News Magazine
ESPN Magazine (distributed by Hearst)
Family Fun Magazine
Institutional Investor Magazine
JCK Magazine
Kodin Magazine
Top Famille - French family magazine
US Weekly (50%)
Video Business Magazine
Quality Magazine
Wondertime Magazine
Walt Disney Imagineering
Disneyland Resort
Walt Disney World Resort
Tokyo Disney Resort
Disneyland Resort Paris
Hong Kong Disneyland
Disney Vacation Club
Disney Cruise Line
Disney Theatrical Productions
Disney Live Family Entertainment
Disney on Ice
The Disney Store
Club Penguins
ESPN Zone
Disney Toys
Disney Apparel, Accessories and Footwear
Disney Food, Health and Beauty
Disney Home Furnishings and Decor
Disney Stationery
Disney Consumer Economics
The Baby Einstein Company
Muppets Holding Company
Disney Interactive Studios
Walt Disney Internet Group

No wonder they lose focus.

Disney doesn't own the Tokyo Disneyland Resort. The Oriental Land Company does, which is why the quality there is often far superior to anything that gets built in the domestic parks anymore. Sure they have to use to the Imagineers for the design process and that's a really good thing, but Disney doesn't own it - they collect royalties from the OLC.

They also don't have a majority stake in Disneyland Paris either. That resort is partially owned by Euro Disney SCA, a French company, as well as Disney and others. I don't remember the percentages, but they were bleeding money so fast a decade ago and got "bailed out" by an investor. I seem to recall it was that Saudi prince who provided the necessary cash, then changing the stakeholders in that resort. He may not own more than 10-20%, but it definitely changed the ownership make-up and reducing the overall risk for TWDC.

The agreement with the Chinese government also reduces their ownership stake in Hong Kong Disneyland. While they may have the majority there, they certainly don't own it outright like they do DL and WDW. The proposed Shanghai park is reported to have better terms for China and a 51/49 split between TWDC/China, so Hong Kong may be closer to 60% Disney. Either way, they still take their lumps when the parks don't peform.

Regardless, you make very good points disneynutz. The more they have have gone on a buying frenzy through the years - the more profits they need to keep the overall company profitable. Not every entity is profitable each year, but they all pay into the total pot of The Walt Disney Company to produce those shareholder dividends that are so coveted.

 

[OneMoreTry]

The world may be watching, but most don't really seem to care. Corporations today get way to big and loose focus. Instead of being really good at a couple of businesses, they run 30 or 40 average businesses.

......

No wonder they loose focus.

Well maybe, just maybe, some of their management will strive to uphold a high standard and TAKE RESPONSIBILITY -- I know that is a dirty word nowadays. Maybe they won't.

The world DOES care. Brand loyalty can disappear if the brand loses it's appeal. That's why the US automakers are going broke -- talk about corporations that loosened standards and went down the tubes.

If I hire someone and they lie while working for me, I'm responsible. I take it seriously. If misinformation of even the slightest bit occurs, I make sure all employees are correctly informed so it doesn't happen again. That's harder for a big company, but the GOAL should be there.

Entropy. Looks like it applies to corporations as well as entire universes.

 

[disneynutz]

Well maybe, just maybe, some of their management will strive to uphold a high standard and TAKE RESPONSIBILITY -- I know that is a dirty word nowadays. Maybe they won't.

The world DOES care. Brand loyalty can disappear if the brand loses it's appeal. That's why the US automakers are going broke -- talk about corporations that loosened standards and went down the tubes.

If I hire someone and they lie while working for me, I'm responsible. I take it seriously. If misinformation of even the slightest bit occurs, I make sure all employees are correctly informed so it doesn't happen again. That's harder for a big company, but the GOAL should be there.

Entropy. Looks like it applies to corporations as well as entire universes.

Making money, or greed has changed the way companies and governments do business. They have made ridicules sums of money and the expect to keep making it. DVC became a shining star and a money maker for Disney so the pressure is on for them to continue. That's why DVD puts their emphases on sales and much less on MS and maintenance of existing resorts.

 

[OneMoreTry]

Making money, or greed has changed the way companies and governments do business. They have made ridicules sums of money and the expect to keep making it. DVC became a shining star and a money maker for Disney so the pressure is on for them to continue. That's why DVD puts their emphases on sales and much less on MS and maintenance of existing resorts.

Are you willing to pay higher dues for maintenance?

Do you think DVC is taking your dues and using them to advertise?

Or do you think they are pocketing our dues?

If you answer yes to any, then you need to contact management ad tell them what you think the problem is -- oh and let us know here. Otherwise, realize that maintenance is separate from sales. WE pay for maintenance. Not DVC. We also pay them to manage this for us. I personally don't think they are taking maintenance staff salaried by our dues and putting them to work in sales.

Does anyone know something I don't know here?

 

[disneynutz]

Are you willing to pay higher dues for maintenance?

Do you think DVC is taking your dues and using them to advertise?

Or do you think they are pocketing our dues?

If you answer yes to any, then you need to contact management ad tell them what you think the problem is -- oh and let us know here. Otherwise, realize that maintenance is separate from sales. WE pay for maintenance. Not DVC. We also pay them to manage this for us. I personally don't think they are taking maintenance staff salaried by our dues and putting them to work in sales.

Does anyone know something I don't know here?

In all honesty we don't know how the accounting in handled. All we know is what we are told, and that isn't very much.

Everyone can agree that many of the resorts are showing wear and most will say it's because the rooms have a 98% occupancy rate. How many are members and how many are cash guests?

It would be really interesting to see a complete audit of the DVC by a outside accounting firm. People trusted Enron, Bernie Madoff, and RCI until they were caught ripping people off.

 

[Brian Noble]

Does DVC make its audits available? I know folks have gotten ahold of them for other timeshare systems. It's dry reading, but interesting to see where the money goes.