DVC in Will?

[NYDisneyfamily]

My mother & I are both on the deed as co-owners. She is currently updating her will and not sure if this needs to be mentioned. I do have siblings but she wants her 1/2 of the contract to go to me since they never go to Disney. Not sure how Disney worded the contract we signed and it is buried in my closet somewhere.

 

[DVCLiz]

Have your mother ask her attorney how this should be worded. You want it specified because otherwise her half might be equally divided among several heirs.

 

[CarolA]

If she wants it to go to you she needs to specify that in the will.

I have DVC specified to my brother and some other things specified. Everything else is just divided up.

 

[NYDisneyfamily]

The attorney wanted to know how Disney worded it. If Disney worded it that the survior gets sole ownership then it wouldn't need to be in the Will. I guess I'll have to call my guide. Not sure if I understand correctly but I would then have to pay inheritance on her half?

 

[jerry557]

You definitely need to speak to an attorney on this since probate issues can get very, very tricky.

 

[lisah0711]

The attorney wanted to know how Disney worded it. If Disney worded it that the survior gets sole ownership then it wouldn't need to be in the Will. I guess I'll have to call my guide. Not sure if I understand correctly but I would then have to pay inheritance on her half?

The attorney can look at the deed on the Orange County website. If someone wants to specifically leave something to someone it needs to be mentioned otherwise it goes in the residuary (everything else) clause which would probably be divided between you and your other family members.

 

[Merylj]

Just a thought - could your Mother gift you her share now and stop any potential legal wrangles?

 

[Figment2]

If you are indeed listed as a co-owner on the deed, it will not be part of her estate. It's all yours. Only accounts held in an individual's name alone are part of an "estate."

How do I know this? Thirty years as a trust officer and I can't tell you how many estates (too many to count). There are always problems when an asset is listed in a will (such as I leave my 100 shares of Disney to my daughter, Susie) except that Mom or Dad in their infinite wisdom have put daughter, Wilma on the shares as a joint owner. The shares of stock belong to Wilma. All is ususally well and good if Susie and Wilma are getting along but if they're not, life gets interesting. Ahhh, the stories I can tell.

Inheritance taxes are owed on all assets (whether joint or individual). However, the estate has to be large enough to owe taxes.

Cyn

 

[SuzanneSLO]

Only accounts held in an individual's name alone are part of an "estate." Cyn

Cyn's advice above is exactly why your Mom should take a copy of the deed for your DVC membership to her attorney. Cyn's advice may be absolutely correct if you live in IL, but I can tell you it is NOT correct for CA. In CA, it completely depends on how the title is held and you will only know that by looking at the document that gave you title.

Take the deed to your Mom's lawyer.

Best of luck -- Suzanne

 

[CarolAnnC]

Co-ownership may revert to the survivor in cases where they are married to each other. This happened to me when my husband passed away suddenly and I was the suriving spouse/owner. I would be skeptical otherwise. In any event you do need an attorney to draw up the will and list according to your particular state's laws. There may or may not be a way to avoid the inheritance tax but that will be up to your state laws.

 

[NYDisneyfamily]

Thank you for everyone's replies. I'll have to dig out the deed and give it to the attorney.

I knew I could get some great answers here! Thanks!

 

[JimMIA]

I knew I could get some great answers here! Thanks!

Well...you got some interesting answers, that's for sure! Some sorta headed in the right direction, others dangerously wrong...Go see the lawyer.

 

[DMKEDM]

At the risk of adding to the confusion:

DVC is a real estate asset. There are three specific forms of joint ownership of real estate assets--two result in the surviving owner becoming sole owner of the jointly-owned asset (tenants by the entirety, for married folks; and joint tenants); the third, tenants in common, results in the decedent's ownership interest going to his/her heirs (whether by will or by laws of intestacy)...don't be too put off by the term "tenant"--it's a legal term of art and doesn NOT refer to renting! It's the term for ownership by more than one party of a real estate interest...

What you're looking for in the deed is whether ownership is by tenants in common, tenants by the entireties or as joint tenants--

In any event, the overwhelmingly right answer is to discuss this with a lawyer--and quite likely, it will be the Florida law that controls (generally, real estate issues are governed by the state where the real estate is located)...but a competent estate lawyer will know this.

And yes, your lawyer can look up the deed--but it will cost you whatever hundreds of dollars per hour an attorney charges to have him/her do so...it's probably considerably more cost efficient (even if it's a pain to do) to pull out the paperwork yourself...

Good luck!

 

[SuzanneSLO]

At the risk of adding to the confusion:

DVC is a real estate asset. There are three specific forms of joint ownership of real estate assets--two result in the surviving owner becoming sole owner of the jointly-owned asset (tenants by the entirety, for married folks; and joint tenants); the third, tenants in common, ...

And out here in CA there are 2 other forms of ownership for married couples: community property and community property with right of survivorship. But the answer remains the same: go see your lawyer.

-- Suzanne

 

[swanwed6206]

To save the attorney fees, if your Mom is updating the will anyway, just throw the clause into the document. Your main concern is whether it will pass through probate (tenants in common) or whether it will pass at death (joint tenants). From my experience most account openings are joint tenants without otherwise specifying for the tenancy in common and you would probably remember at least the conversation therein when you purchased your interest. Worst case scenario if you add the clause to the will is that it is probated and you get the interest when the dust settles. You could also, as someone mentioned before, have her gift the interest to you now but you might have to worry about gift tax above $11K ... I am not sure how unrealized gains, etc. work with real property ... hth

 

[BuzznBelle'smom]

I agree, you should talk to an attorney. A few $ now could save you a ton of heartache later. This is not something to be cheap about. I say this as the DD of a woman who made her wishes crystal clear (everything split equally among her 4 kids), but then died of dementia. If there's a will an additional assets (I suspect another bank account), we have no clue where they might be.

As far as gifting goes--this might be a real good idea, but I would again run it by an attorney to make sure everything is on the up and up. To avoid the $11k limit, your mom could "gift" you, say 15 points this year, then 15 points again next year, etc. She also gets a certain exclusion, so if she gave you more than $11k's worth in one year, she would have to file saying this was part of her exclusion. Then, she would have that much less of an exclusion upon her death. Does that make sense? Estate planning does get tricky, and especialy now when the exclusion rates are changing every year, vanish in 2010, and then reappear in 2011. really, I can't emphasize enough the value of a good estate attorney.

 

[gobofraggle]

I inherited membership from my mother when she died - Florida probate attorney fees seemed high, like the fees we'd pay when we buy a house... but the attorney was, at least, efficient...
if we'd understood the complication of inheriting the membership (i.e. a probate attorney filing papers with the court, not just telling disney to change the member name) my parents would've bought it in my name to begin with.

Seriously, people should consider making purchases in their kids names (if they trust the kids!) membership is going to run for decades and will most likely be inherited otherwise, with many many dollars going into some attorney's pocket...

 

[CarolAnnC]

The issues with putting it in the kids' names to start with can be numerous such as if they have financial difficulties, a divorce, etc., that portion of the DVC can then be made a part of a settlement to someone else. Again, an attorney can best advise how to proceed according to state laws.

 

[gobofraggle]

The issues with putting it in the kids' names to start with can be numerous such as if they have financial difficulties, a divorce, etc., that portion of the DVC can then be made a part of a settlement to someone else. Again, an attorney can best advise how to proceed according to state laws.

Yes, of course - you're right. The 'if you trust the kids' comment was a jokey acknowledgement of it depending on circumstances. In our circumstances, it would've made a lot of sense - but you're right that it wouldn't for a lot of people... still, irritating to have to pay out the money at the time. And these attorney fees are in addition to any you pay when drafting the will.

So many inheritances of DVC will happen - due to timescales - it would be nice if Disney offered a fixed price service for these things... It can feel hard, at the time, to look into finding a reliable probate attorney who is local to WDW...

 

[SuzanneSLO]

I inherited membership from my mother when she died - Florida probate attorney fees seemed high, like the fees we'd pay when we buy a house... but the attorney was, at least, efficient...
if we'd understood the complication of inheriting the membership (i.e. a probate attorney filing papers with the court, not just telling disney to change the member name) my parents would've bought it in my name to begin with.

Seriously, people should consider making purchases in their kids names (if they trust the kids!) membership is going to run for decades and will most likely be inherited otherwise, with many many dollars going into some attorney's pocket...

Avoiding the need for probate, esp. in more than one state, is one reason why many people put assets such as DVC in a revocable trust. If you think it might be right for you, you should talk to a qualified attorney in your home state.

Also, simply transferring assets to your heirs during your lifetime does not always work out the way it was expected. It is a sad fact that sometimes parents do outlive their children. Everyone needs to make sure they can live with those consequences if that should happen.

-- Suzanne