DVC explanation of difference in Transportation budgets at BCV vs BWV

[PKS44]

Originally posted by PamOKW
I think the way Disney sees this is that the Smith family is charged $100 for their bus. The Jones family is charged $100 for their bus. The Smiths pay $3.33 per person. The Jones pay $5 per person. Both families (or resorts) pay the same amount for the bus. The per person cost is determined by the size of the family/resort.

Pam this makes no sense as others below have pointed out...they are not separate buses and it is not that BWV/BWI pays $100 and YC/BC/BCV pays a hundred and then they divide it over the guests...it is that BWV is assigned MORE cost --look at the budget for the two --Troy is correct I believe...BCV is 19% of the YCBCBCV complex and BWV is 58% of the the BWVBWI complex...the total budget for Transport for the BWV is $900000 a year so that is 58% of the complex share of the cost...BCV budget for transport is around $200000 (somebody have the exact figures?) that is 19% of that side of the lake's transportation...so they are assigning LESS COST to the side with MORE guests! AND THEY GET THE BUSES FIRST TOO!
Anybody as confused and annoyed as me? I have the address am I allowed to post it here?

Paul

 

[PamOKW]

Are these transportation budget numbers really the budgets for the entire complex? Do they give you the Yacht Club and Beach Club budgets and the BWI budget also? Or are you just seeing the Vacation Club portions of each resort's total? I don't know if they'd share it but what you really need is the total transportation (including S&D) and how they divvy up the costs.

I realize that you aren't paying for a dedicated bus but the bus is providing the same service to each resort. The driver, the gas, the maintenance, etc. are the same. They just aren't charging "per person" they are charging "per resort" and then DVC is dividing up the DVC portion among their members. BCV is benefiting from a larger portion of their costs being paid by Y&B. If you find that the BW section is being charged more in total than the total paid by S&D and Y&B then I agree that is unfair.

I'm curious what the per point charge for transportation is at each -- has that been posted?

 

[PKS44]

I was told that the BWV pays what it pays because it is 58% of the BWV/BWI complex...that BCV is 19% of the YC/BC/BCV...and therefore you can figure back the totals --I do not have any info on the Swan And Dolphin....even if they are dividing it up equally that is NOT fair...YC and BC/BCV have two separate stops, more guests and are the first stops....it is not a fair or equitable way to share the costs and we BWV owners have suffered with bad service long enough that we should not have to pay more for the privelege as well. We need to push for a remedy.

 

[PamOKW]

What is the total Transportation charge for BWV and for BCV (individually)? Also, what is the per point breakdown?

 

[PKS44]

If I could search this forum I could find the original thread that started this when the budgets for the resorts were posted on a spreadsheet side by side --line by line....the search function has been disabled for so lon.....basically though the BWV was about 19 cents a point, the BCV was just under 8 cents a point --so about 2.4 times more..and the total numbers were more disparate with the total budget about 4 times higher for BWV compared to BCV total transportation budget.

 

[DemoBri1]

Technically speaking. There is no bus stop at BCV, it's at the BC.

Second...some of you BW owners are making our cases for us. Why should we pay more when there are 180 more rooms at your resort than ours. In fact, our resort is the smallest in the DVC inventory on property.

I'm not one to use the transportation system anyway, since I don't like being tied to a schedule, but...instead of pushing for a monetary penalty for your neighbors, what you should be pushing for is your own route.

 

[PKS44]

Technically speaking no one ever claimed there was BCV stop -but there is a BC stop SEPARATE from the YC.

I just got off the phone with DVC and the fact is they confirmed my calculations...the South side of the lake is charged more for their share of the buses than the North side...(SOUTH Equals the BWV and the BWI; North is the YC BC and BCV) They had no ready explanation as to why that is...They are supposed to get back to me on Monday.

I just thought of a possible reason: is it possible the BWV and BW together HAD more guests before BCV opened and the calculation was never refigured when BCV did open....in other words -the costs for the buses were $3 million...the South had more guests so they paid 1.7 million and the North paid $1.3--now the number of guests using the buses from one side or the other is not so different but they still charge like they are..???

(By the way as a die hard UNION/Yankee man- I hate being on the SOUTH.)

as Doc says-- stay tuned...for those who want the address PM or email me.

 

[lenshanem]

Bravo DemoBri1, well said.

Although this thread has gotten a little too involved for my thinking with all those numbers , I can pretty much guess DVC isn't going to be cutting back transportation dues for BWV, so why would any of our fellow DVC neighbors be so bent on getting our (BCV members) dues raised? Would that really make you feel better for us to have to pay more, but yet your dues still remain the same? Maybe BCV owners should examine BWV's dues to see if we can find a discrepency so those dues can be raised, too?!?

 

[DeeP]

No one is pushing for a "monetary penalty for our neighbors". What BWV owners want is equal distribution of the transportation costs. The way the situation is now, BWV owners have a "monetary penalty" imposed on them and to add insult to injury BWV/BWI receives substandard bus service due to the fact that BWV/BWI is the last stop which results in overcrowded buses at times.
BWV having their own bus route would be wonderful but it is very unlikely that this will ever happen.

 

[lenshanem]

(By the way as a die hard UNION/Yankee man- I hate being on the SOUTH.)

Uh, all of Florida is in the south. Do you hate being at WDW, then?

 

[PKS44]

I love being in the South--I am just uncomfortable being on the South's side....

and as DeeP explained this has nothing to do with punishing anyone...it has to do with making things FAIR...the confusing numbers have obscured things as has the original assertion that the YC was somehow underwriting the BCV--that is clearly not the explanation....There is a transportation systems shared around Crescent Lake...the cost of that system is fixed. The numbers of people using the system differ from resort to resort ----one resort is paying more for the system but it is not the resort that has more guests....this is not a BCV vs BWV issue --it is a North vs South (Yacht and Beach vs Boardwalk) --and who the heck knows where the Swan and Dolphin fit in...that is completely unknown--- I would be delighted to have a BWV route of our own that we could pay for on our own--then at least we would be getting our share of what we pay for...right now we pay more, have fewer guests AND less access and opportunity and Less efficient service on the system we are paying for...that is why I am so bent on getting things addressed.

 

[SleepyatDVC]

Throwing in monkey wrench...

I wonder if the higher utilization costs over at the BWV/BVI could be due to all the people using the buses/boats to utilize the entertainment and restaurants options at the BW!!!

So, Disney factors in the higher transportation usage for the whole BW area by resort guests and non-guests, but the BWI/BWV still foots the bill for the whole thing.

Thus, BWV and BWI splits the total higher costs of transportation even though their guests may not be the actual ones using it all.

Wonder if the BW resort gets any "rental value" for the restaurants and stores when they calculate their income and expenses. Is the correct term profit center? If so, does the BWV get a share or does it all go to the Inn side? If the BWV does get a share, maybe this might offset the higher transportation costs? If not, then BWV owners are subsidizing transportation for Disney restaurants and entainment at the BW.

Note that all the above are musings off the top of my head and does not have any basis in fact or actual reality. Although, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that it plays a factor in the higher utilization and therefore, higher transportation costs over at BWV.

 

[Sammie]

Originally posted by PKS44
I love being in the South--I am just uncomfortable being on the South's side....

Interesting seems a little hypocritical, but then I would expect no less from a diehard Yankee/Union man,

I too wonder if the bus usage is based on occupancy rates of each resort or actual guests using the bus on a daily basis, or the number of runs. I am not sure they keep up with the number of people on a bus run.

However if it is calculated on the number of runs the bus makes then yes the BW buses are probably being rode by a number of people not even staying there. If that is the case then I am all for the checking of resort ID's and limiting the use of the bus to those staying there.

 

[PamOKW]

It'll be interesting to see how much detail they'll share and how this will all end up.

I know you don't agree with the fairness of what I'm saying but I think it is the way Disney would work things. They don't charge "per guest" they allocate shared costs to the resorts. I would think they'd take the cost for the buses and the cost for the boats and split it equally between the resorts. Then, within the resorts, they would charge DVC for their share. This appears to be how it was done since based on number of rooms BWV is roughly 58% of the Boardwalk Resort and BCV is roughly 19% of the Y&B resort.

However, if the resorts were not billed equally and, as you seem to have uncovered, the larger resort was billed less, then you do deserve a more in-depth explanation. The Y&B has always been bigger than the Boardwalk. Y&B (pre-DVC) is 1,200 rooms vs. 761 at Boardwalk.

Another thought -- Maybe this is an old problem. Could it be that when Boardwalk opened, they were billed for the additional cost of adding on transportation service? This would account for the split not being "equal".

You might also need to know what "Transportation" covers. Could it be that the cost of maintaining the boardwalk and/or the new walkway to MGM is also part of your Transportation budget?

Another possibility? The valet costs maybe? The valet is servicing far more rooms at the BWV than BCV.

 

[TroyWDW]

What is the total Transportation charge for BWV and for BCV (individually)? Also, what is the per point breakdown?

Pam, the costs were included in my cost analysis message. Sorry it wasn't more clear.

2003 Transportation Costs from Annual Reports:
BWV $929,258 ..... $0.1901 per point
BCV $238,756 ...... $0.0789 per point

I used those numbers to estimate the total transportation cost for each resort group.

*Transporation Estimates
BW Group Trans Cost = $929,258 / 0.58 = $1.6 MM
YC Group Trans Cost = $238,756 / 0.19 = $1.2 MM

BW Group = BWI + BWV
YC Goup = YC + BC + BCV

Troy

 

[TroyWDW]

If I could search this forum I could find the original thread that started this when the budgets for the resorts were posted on a spreadsheet side by side --line by line

PKS44, Is this the thread you are looking for?

http://disboards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=471126

Troy

 

[Lisa P.]

How much of the transportation costs is for bus service and how much is for boat service? The fact that BW has its own dock may affect this number significantly.

Also, there is bus service which goes directly between Coronado Springs (convention guests) and the BW. I wonder if BW & CS split the costs of that.

 

[PamOKW]

Thanks Troy. I'm sorry that I didn't see it myself...numbers are not really my strong suit.

So, we are only backing into the budget, right? We don't have an actual budget number for the different resorts from Disney. (found an error need to edit)

Lisa, I had thought about the CSR bus, too but I think that was discontinued about a year ago.

 

[TroyWDW]

I'll try to distill the information down to fewer details.

Here are my estimates:

Total Transportation Costs for 2003
$1,600,000 ......... BWV + BWI ..........900 total rooms
$1,200,000 ....... YC + BC + BCV .....1427 total rooms

The original explanation given by the finance person that the YC & BC was subsidizing the BCV was the cause for the vast difference in cost structures was inaccurate.

The statement that the inequity exists between the two resort groups appears to be correct. It isn't a difference between BWV and BCV. One has to consider the totality of all of the resorts in each grouping.

The difference between the two resort groups is extreme. We're not talking a 10% or 20% difference that could be explained by room occupancy, extra buses for special events, etc. BWV/BWI pay more than double the cost of the YC/BC/BCV resort.

If the BWV & BWI resort had the same cost basis as the YC group then the total transportation costs for 2003 would have been $757,000. They were charged an additional $843,000. That's a lot of buses and boats...

Troy

 

[TroyWDW]

Originally posted by PamOKW
Thanks Troy. I'm sorry that I didn't see it myself...numbers are not really my strong suit.

So, we are only backing into the budget, right? We don't have an actual budget number for the different resorts from Disney. (found an error need to edit)

Pam,
Yes, we are back calculating the costs. I doubt we will ever see the other sister resorts data. But, I feel pretty confident with the estimating techniques I've used relative to the huge discrepancy observed between the two resort groups (i.e. my ruler doesn't have to have 1/32 divisions to measure the difference between a 3-foot board and a 7-foot board).

It's hard to communicate such detail via this medium. We really do have the four key pieces of data to do the comparison. Please feel free to ask more questions or poke at my assumptions.

Should be an interesting explanation on Monday... Thanks again Paul for driving this issue to a conclusion (no pun intended)

Troy