DVC and annual passes

[SL6827]

As I mentioned, I bet the blocking of passes around the holidays will be for every single pass at WDW as well.

Locals would have an AP but also need to buy holiday tickets if they didn't have a resort reservation to get in during that timeframe.

 

[New Mouse]

We will agree to disagree on that because you are not guaranteed entry every single day of the year. If you don't like those terms, don't buy it. Now, if you buy an AP and get blocked every single day, even with advance notice, sure.

That isn't and won't happen...its not happening now...because Disney could simply eliminate the passes if they want to..and they will control how many are out there....

The car example is apples to oranges since you are talking one item....AP's at DL have two parks, and hundreds of days they can use it.....pretty hard to prove that the ticket you bought can't be used as intended.

WDW has 4 parks to use the passes...so, again, pretty hard to say you were blocked an unfair amount of time.

Sorry, but if someone buys an AP and gets 200+ days of admission, but is blocked, one, they can't claim they didn't get what they paid for when it was clear from the start.

So are you saying every gym in America can now legally sell memberships but tell the people who purchased them they can't come in due to capacity while still continuing to sell day passes?

Just because someone writes it doesn't mean it's legal or enforcable. You will see this new Disney situation go to court as well once it starts affecting the consumer. I'd also be shocked if Disney doesn't settle as they typically do to keep their reputation clean.

 

[Sandisw]

Locals would have an AP but also need to buy holiday tickets if they didn't have a resort reservation to get in during that timeframe.

That is where I think it’s headed. Xmas time is multi day tickets only.

 

[Sandisw]

So are you saying every gym in America can now legally sell memberships but tell the people who purchased them they can't come in due to capacity while still continuing to sell day passes?

Just because someone writes it doesn't mean it's legal or enforcable. You will see this new Disney situation go to court as well once it starts affecting the consumer. I'd also be shocked if Disney doesn't settle as they typically do to keep their reputation clean.

Yes, I do think they can if it’s sold that way. If I buy a gym membership that says I have to reserve the time slot in advance, then not sure I can claim I’m not getting what I paid for because I couldn’t go Sunday but could get one on Monday instead.

In that example, I’d have to be blocked every time of every day, no matter when I tried…

I just don’t get the position that if you buy something with terms and conditions and can use your product successfully within those condition that you now get to sue because you want it to be different product.

This new AP is a product that gives you access to a park subject to conditions and those conditions are clear.

Companies can sell goods and services as long as it’s terms are clear and their is a reasonable expectation you will get what you paid for.

So, if I buy an AP and use it 200 times, you are saying it’s illegal for Disney to sell it to me since I might not be able to use it 201?

And, yes, I know that just because it’s written doesn’t mean it’s legal. But in this case, there is nothing illegal about selling a product that gives you access to their parks only a certain number of times.

Multi day passes do that as well. Again, I don’t agree this is an illegal move or even deceptive.

 

[AvidDisReader]

Yes, I do think they can if it’s sold that way. If I buy a gym membership that says I have to reserve the time slot in advance, then not sure I can claim I’m not getting what I paid for because I couldn’t go Sunday but could get one on Monday instead.

In that example, I’d have to be blocked every time of every day, no matter when I tried…

I just don’t get the position that if you buy something with terms and conditions and can use your product successfully within those condition that you now get to sue because you want it to be different product.

This new AP is a product that gives you access to a park subject to conditions and those conditions are clear.

Companies can sell goods and services as long as it’s terms are clear and their is a reasonable expectation you will get what you paid for.

So, if I buy an AP and use it 200 times, you are saying it’s illegal for Disney to sell it to me since I might not be able to use it 201?

And, yes, I know that just because it’s written doesn’t mean it’s legal. But in this case, there is nothing illegal about selling a product that gives you access to their parks only a certain number of times.

Multi day passes do that as well. Again, I don’t agree this is an illegal move or even deceptive.

SandisW - I do not often agree with you but this is spot on. The terms are Very Clear. Disney is not misleading anyone who purchased. There will be days that an AP will just not be able to obtain a reservation. However, except for black out dates, an AP holder who plans their days in the park in advance, should be able to obtain a reservation a great majority of the time. What is the sadness to this, it will really hurt the spontaneous visit.

 

[Sandisw]

SandisW - I do not often agree with you but this is spot on. The terms are Very Clear. Disney is not misleading anyone who purchased. There will be days that an AP will just not be able to obtain a reservation. However, except for black out dates, an AP holder who plans their days in the park in advance, should be able to obtain a reservation a great majority of the time. What is the sadness to this, it will really hurt the spontaneous visit.

That is a big deal for those local for sure. As DVC owners who are not local, we do plan in advance, and we do currently enjoy being able to hold park reservations to match those.

I guess I look at it this way..I’d rather have a yeslry pass option that saves me over multiple trip tickets even if it means I have to adjust things when planning.

As I mentioned, with 4 parks at WDW, I think it will be few and far between that advance days are gone but that last minute stuff will stink for those who want to simply pop in.

That’s also why I said I bet we see APs have sell outs more often now as they play behind the scenes to make sure they don’t have more than they want to have.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

.

 

[nlenguyen]

I will be interested to see how this plays out with the number of people buying Magic Keys. If Disney sees less people in the parks because Magic Keys are too expensive, then they will have to change once again

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

.

 

[Sandisw]

It isn't about nameless, faceless locals either. Many of Disney's locals at WDW are retirees. They are more fragile in many ways including financially. Physically, all day park attendance is a huge challenge. But, they have been fans for many decades.

I am going to watch for another year. I will be keeping records so I can see the whole picture after some time has passed.

For me, this is not just about whether or not I might renew my annual pass. It is about where I might continue to live in retirement. If the Disney message is very clear that they will actively work against local passholders, then I don't want to impose my business on them. I will be moving in 2023 or 2024. It is a massive effort for an elderly person to find a new location, pack up a house, sell a house and pay these shriekingly awful inflated prices increases for a new house somewhere else. Why? If there is no Disney, I am not going to live with the heat of Central Florida. I will look for a new, beautiful place to live, a much bigger home and focus on entirely different retirement activities. I loved Disney since Disneyland opened! As I said before, I have Disney memories from the 1950s. I remember the sound of Walt's voice from "The Wonderful World of Color". But, I love the creativity and art. I am not the kind of retiree to ride around in a golf cart and sit at a bar drinking all day. I like the natural world, beauty and art and I will go find it. Disney doesn't speak to passholders individually or I would outright ask them if they didn't want me to come. But I can't say "Disney wants" because that creates a big confrontation and attacks on these forums. So, I will figure it out myself. It is going to cost me hundreds of thousands of retirement funds to do this.

If these Chapek policy changes -- out of the blue with no warning or negotiation -- impacted other passholders like this you bet the forums, blogs and maybe the mainstream news would be full of it. But, it is just some local passholder who is stubborn about wanting spontaniety and hates to plan ahead. I assure you, it is NOT just some stubborn, childish local passholder who can't get it through their thick head that they need to do advance planning and make reservations now. It is not about a habit of just willy nilly popping into the parks with no advance planning. If Disney would give us an annual pass choice without park reservations (at a higher price) or without limiting the holds so severely (30 or 40 holds) -- (again at a higher price) == or even impose a penalty for failure to show, I could live with it. But just outright putting up disrespectful, thoughtless or careless barriers is so offensive. So are the posters who continuously assume the wrong reason for the problem. Sort of winced at "pop in" but other phrases to describe making reservations without long term advance planning are too unwieldy. So, regardless of the less than optimal characterization of the term "pop in", I know you didn't mean it negatively any more than those who do "advanced planning" are just greedy.

So, thank you, Sandi for recognizing the real reason; the reasonable use of passes is very different for those who plan trips and those who live nearby.

My hope would be to see them actually have different types of yearly passes for the different subset of groups. Locals should have a much different type of pass that those who are onsite guest visiting multiple times a year, like DVC do, or even cash guests.

We do not need passes that offer us the same level of spontaneity that locals do. We really just need something that costs us less than multiday tickets. And, what we have learned is that they can control how many passes are out there, so it makes perfect sense...to me at least...to leave those that offer hundreds of days a year as possible to those who truly would go, or want to go hundreds of days a year.

As always, I do think its going to work out fine and that maybe we will see that AP holders without resort reservations will be given a larger # of spots they can hold at one time.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

SandisW - I do not often agree with you but this is spot on. The terms are Very Clear. Disney is not misleading anyone who purchased. There will be days that an AP will just not be able to obtain a reservation. However, except for black out dates, an AP holder who plans their days in the park in advance, should be able to obtain a reservation a great majority of the time. What is the sadness to this, it will really hurt the spontaneous visit.

Problem is, the AP holder who is not staying on site can only hold 3-6 reservations at one time.
Pretty hard to plan ahead with that limitation.

 

[Brian Noble]

As DVC owners who are not local, we do plan in advance, and we do currently enjoy being able to hold park reservations to match those.

I don't anticipate this to be a problem. In the past, any limits on the number of concurrent advance reservations were waived during onsite stays. DVC owners, (almost) by definition, are staying onsite when they visit the parks. So, in practice, DVC owners probably won't be subject to limits on the number of advance reservations.

 

[Sandisw]

I don't anticipate this to be a problem. In the past, any limits on the number of concurrent advance reservations were waived during onsite stays. DVC owners, (almost) by definition, are staying onsite when they visit the parks. So, in practice, DVC owners probably won't be subject to limits on the number of advance reservations.

I too don’t see them changing things up for onsite guests..including DVC.

But how nice would it be if they could find a way to sell onsite guests something that better matches the actual need so that maybe they could begin sales again instead of having the one size fits all APs of the past.

 

[WilsonFlyer]

This whole thing may be headed exactly where I had hoped it would head. DVC'ers have a different AP than FL residents. A welcomed change.

 

[Mexacajun]

This whole thing may be headed exactly where I had hoped it would head. DVC'ers have a different AP than FL residents. A welcomed change.

Works for me! Just give me something!

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

.

 

[DVC92]

I am about to renew our expired Gold passes for Sorcerer's passes. I truly detest the reservation system, but at least I'll be able to book ressies for the entire length of our stay. I was hoping to purchase a new AP to be able to get 3 trips with it but currently that is not possible. We had considered to moving to Florida in retirement, but I'm glad that we did not because, with an AP, we wanted to wake up in morning and say let's go to a park. Not!!! Give me a break. It's bad enough to have to go to a 1st park before hopping.

 

[cm8]

Which is why Disney will control the number of passes that are in circulation to allow for those holders to get the bulk of the year as available when booking in advance. I see new sales being an on and off type of thing in the future.

As renewals don't happen, they will open up for more sales, etc. But, as it stands, this new language lets all consumers know clearly what you are and are not buying, which was the issue before...it implied being blocked out meant everyone...now it does not.

It's why I think we will see WDW passes, all of them, blocked from the start for Xmas, just like the DL passes....and why I think the rumored afternoon bucket system go into place as well that allows more reservations for those without resort stays that start later in the day.

I hope they don’t block out Christmas. We go every year and have Incredipass just for that!

 

[WilsonFlyer]

I can't get away from the fundamental business principal that governed Disney's management of the FL parks for years and that was simply this. The FL parks bled money. Leave them the hell alone. Don't change anything. Only two fundamental things could change that thinking. There are only two things that could cause things to change. They aren't making money anymore or greed based on a need to prop up revenue streams that are not performing. You be the judge. You don't change what isn't broken, ESPECIALLY when it's been producing the food for everything else anyway. Not unless you're stupid.

Disney is pretty close to giving that other cheek about all she's gonna take. What they're missing is that when she walks away from the fight, she won't be back. They never come back.