dumb question on slot machines

[bcla]

And just a reminder if you play on a cruise ship - they are not under US gambling laws. The reason they only open in international waters.

They might be governed by the laws of the country of registration. Maybe. A lot of ships are registered in the Bahamas, and apparently those ships are allowed to conduct gambling while in their waters.

 

[bcla]

Also your odds on a cruise ship are always better in the beginning of the cruise. They want you to win so you either turn around and put more money (plus what you just won) back into the machines through out your cruise hoping to win big again or spend it on the ship. The less time you have to spend your winnings on board/put more money into the casino the less likely you are to win.

I don't know how much an incentive they would have to do that. Certainly all of the major slot machine makers claim that there's no way to modify the payout table without swapping out the boards. All they really need to do is order machines where the average payout is lower. Adjusting the payout doesn't really affect much. You're going to get people hitting jackpots and getting small amounts back all the time regardless of how the machines are set up.

 

[wilkeliza]

I don't know how much an incentive they would have to do that. Certainly all of the major slot machine makers claim that there's no way to modify the payout table without swapping out the boards. All they really need to do is order machines where the average payout is lower. Adjusting the payout doesn't really affect much. You're going to get people hitting jackpots and getting small amounts back all the time regardless of how the machines are set up.

I've never seen one claim it is that hard. It takes no time at all to adjust any machine. Maybe I just know that because I have a friend in casino IT in Vegas. Adjusting the odds and payout does have an affect because it is a mental thing. Of course minor pay outs have the same affect. Slots are the only game that really can be altered in a pretty easy way. Of course it all has to be done by opening the machine and manually doing it but nothing would stop them from doing it sight unseen while the casino is closed in port.

 

[bcla]

I've never seen one claim it is that hard. It takes no time at all to adjust any machine. Maybe I just know that because I have a friend in casino IT in Vegas. Adjusting the odds and payout does have an affect because it is a mental thing. Of course minor pay outs have the same affect. Slots are the only game that really can be altered in a pretty easy way. Of course it all has to be done by opening the machine and manually doing it but nothing would stop them from doing it sight unseen while the casino is closed in port.

I heard rumors about testing of machines that could have a bunch of things change via a central control. I don't believe most machines actually do that though. What I was hearing about was machines that could literally change everything, including the available games and the appearance via video screens. They did have rules during the testing period. Something about no changes while someone is playing.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/12/t...-a-casino-can-change-the-slot-machine-in.html

I know in Nevada the Gaming Commission can order a machine be pulled out at any time and tested for payouts. They hire expert programmers who can figure out how the pay tables are set up and calculate the average theoretical payout. They also approve slot machine programming, and they're not supposed to be allowed to use an unapproved program where the Gaming Commission hasn't signed off on it. Certainly IGT, WMS, or Aristorat all claim that they design their machines to be fair, because they wouldn't otherwise be allowed to sell them. There might not be this level of scrutiny on a cruise ship though, or at tribal casinos.

 

[wilkeliza]

I heard rumors about testing of machines that could have a bunch of things change via a central control. I don't believe most machines actually do that though. What I was hearing about was machines that could literally change everything, including the available games and the appearance via video screens. They did have rules during the testing period. Something about no changes while someone is playing.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/12/t...-a-casino-can-change-the-slot-machine-in.html

I know in Nevada the Gaming Commission can order a machine be pulled out at any time and tested for payouts. They hire expert programmers who can figure out how the pay tables are set up and calculate the average theoretical payout. They also approve slot machine programming, and they're not supposed to be allowed to use an unapproved program where the Gaming Commission hasn't signed off on it. Certainly IGT, WMS, or Aristorat all claim that they design their machines to be fair, because they wouldn't otherwise be allowed to sell them. There might not be this level of scrutiny on a cruise ship though, or at tribal casinos.

Like I said it wasn't the click of the mouse but even before the tech came out to make it central (the article is 10 years old that tech is out there) the machine had to sit idle for 4 minutes, the make the quick computer change, and then it is out of commission for 4 more minutes. The article even states odds changes happen over night when there are less people on the floor and the tech in this article was not new at all it just makes it easier then having someone physically go on the floor to do it. I've seen the change overs myself in vegas because it is no uncommon for me to go down to the floor at 3 or 4 am when no one (even the partiers) are on the floor. You see a lot of the switch over activity then.

 

[bcla]

I've never seen one claim it is that hard. It takes no time at all to adjust any machine. Maybe I just know that because I have a friend in casino IT in Vegas. Adjusting the odds and payout does have an affect because it is a mental thing. Of course minor pay outs have the same affect. Slots are the only game that really can be altered in a pretty easy way. Of course it all has to be done by opening the machine and manually doing it but nothing would stop them from doing it sight unseen while the casino is closed in port.

I found this article about an interview with someone from the Nevada Gaming Commission. It was 20 years ago, and practical networked machines hadn't been around yet.

http://www.americancasinoguide.com/slot-machines/are-slot-machines-honest.html

 

[Domo]

Or... you could take a sledge hammer to the damned things?

Just sayin'...

 

[cobright]

Every slot machine can be different and determining your odds can be confusing as all getout. Generally speaking though it is not a question of "odds", that's fixed by the design of the machine or the software. The reason for placing max-bet is that it is almost always includes a bonus payout table. Your odds of winning are the same, but the amount you get from that win relative to your bet is greater. Suppose there is a slot that lets you bet anywhere from one to one hundred cents on a pull. So you bet a penny and jackpot, maybe that gives you ten cents. Bet a dime and jackpot, you win a dollar. But if you max-bet a dollar, instead of winning $10, it gives you a $30 jackpot.

So the thing to look for is not so much odds as the payout rate, or rate of return. For slot machines you can expect the casino to keep about 15% of all the money fed into their slots. This is overall figure, and high denomination slots have a better payout rate than the nickel and penny machines.

If one enjoys casino gaming but is maybe intimidated by playing at table games, video poker machines are actually one of the best games in the house. With a little understanding on how the strategy works and a little cheat sheet card you're entitled to bring in with you, you can eek out even odds or even a slight advantage over the house. All without having to talk to a single human being. Video blackjack is not quite as good but still much better than the slot machines.

 

[Ciao Mickey]

I am in no way a big gambler but once in a while well go to the casino and play a little slots

my question is Im not sure what Im doing--I throw some money in when Im at my limit I leave

so heres my question--I like playing these 1 cent machines

the only thing you need to press is the credit button

which goes 60 120 240 and 360 are you choices

so what is the difference in how many credits you play

the more credits you play does that increase your chances of winning

or the more credits the more money youll win


also theres other machines that you have a row of credits and then number of lines

how do you begin to figure this one out

thanks all

sorry for the dumb question

Your question is not dumb. Slot machines can be very confusing. Half the time I don't even know how I won on a machine. Lol.

I just got back from 3 days in Atlantic City. We always stay at the Borgata. So I'm only commenting on the slots there.

You have all different types of slot machines. You have to go into the Pay/help feature and read the rules that apply to the machine you are on.

On some some machines with progressive payouts you have to play the max bet in order to win any jackpots. On other machines you can win a jackpot that's a smaller amount if you don't play the max bet. Some machines have an extra rewards feature so if you play more there will be more bonus features.

Someone said to always play max bet. The Borgata has straight penny machines that have a max bet of $8.88 per spin. They also have quarter machines that have a max bet of 45 coins. If I'm going to put in that much each spin I would rather play the tables. Lol.

As far as higher denomination machines having better payouts--maybe that was true years ago but not anymore IMHO. I've seen people (my girlfriend is one) pump in a couple of thousand dollars in a $5 or $10 machine and win nothing. I've seen some people play on a penny machine with a 40 cents bet and win over a thousand dollars.

When we were there people were playing on a bank of dragon machines. One woman was putting in $3 while the woman next to her was betting the minimum which was $1 per spin. The woman betting the $1 hit a jackpot for over $5,600! (If anyone here goes to the Borgata it was the bank of machines on the back wall by Wolfgang Puck.).

What I have always told my kids is never go to a casino with the idea of winning. You go there with xxx amount of money that you can afford to lose and enjoy yourself. If I come home with the same amount I go down with I consider myself a winner. Lol.

The bottom line is you have to be at the right machine at the right time.

 

[jaiminee krikit]

I worked in a casino for several years. One of the 2 ships had one floor that was all nickel slots. It was a fun and busy floor to work, but the payouts were not great. Very rarely did people play a nickel a pull. It was usually $2.50/pull. The highest jackpot I ever paid out up there was less than $1200 (over $1200 required a supervisor's approval, I never had that on the nickel floor). I worked on other floors, too. $1 machines paid out much better for $1/pull.

 

[bcla]

Every slot machine can be different and determining your odds can be confusing as all getout. Generally speaking though it is not a question of "odds", that's fixed by the design of the machine or the software. The reason for placing max-bet is that it is almost always includes a bonus payout table. Your odds of winning are the same, but the amount you get from that win relative to your bet is greater. Suppose there is a slot that lets you bet anywhere from one to one hundred cents on a pull. So you bet a penny and jackpot, maybe that gives you ten cents. Bet a dime and jackpot, you win a dollar. But if you max-bet a dollar, instead of winning $10, it gives you a $30 jackpot.

I don't believe any of the current "penny" machines really do that much more, although there is the possibility of a progressive jackpot. The "penny" machine really dominates the industry now, so if they're going to change any of the payout structure, it's probably going to be based on the total bet. It's not illegal to do that as long as the theoretical average payout is over the minimum for the jurisdiction, which is 75% in Nevada - although the vast majority of machines pay out higher than 90%.

 

[bcla]

I worked in a casino for several years. One of the 2 ships had one floor that was all nickel slots. It was a fun and busy floor to work, but the payouts were not great. Very rarely did people play a nickel a pull. It was usually $2.50/pull. The highest jackpot I ever paid out up there was less than $1200 (over $1200 required a supervisor's approval, I never had that on the nickel floor). I worked on other floors, too. $1 machines paid out much better for $1/pull.

Did it use real coins? I remember some slots that still kept coins, even though they also accepted bills. This was around the time payslips were becoming more common.

I've seen jackpot payouts where the lights start going off and they bring out the slot supervisor to write up a check. I also remember the coin machines that said "all jackpots paid by hand" or something to that effect.

 

[MillauFr]

Why play slots with their lousy win % when you can play video poker? They have machines that pay over 100%.

 

[Owlpost23]

Why play slots with their lousy win % when you can play video poker? They have machines that pay over 100%.

AND you can make decisions that affect the outcome,unlike slots.

 

[bcla]

AND you can make decisions that affect the outcome,unlike slots.

Theoretically, newer slot machines have "bonus games" where there might be choices. Whether or not they're really choices or the illusion of choice is another matter. Those generally need to be rolled into the odds when it comes to theoretical average payout.

I'm not much of a slots player, but I get that they're generally less intimidating than table games. There's this one game I've seen at many casinos, and it's generally what I'll play if I have slots-only free play. There's one bonus game where there's a choice of three selections, with each one then deciding if there are 2/3/4 picks on the next screen. Then there's are maybe 10 items to pick from, with each one supposedly having a different value. Once I do all the picks and the payout is revealed, the supposed value of each of the unelected items are displayed. I don't know if it's real or not, but many claim it's legitimate. Also - a lot of slot makers have been accused of hyping up the "near miss" to entice the gambler to thing that perhaps it was close.

 

[jaiminee krikit]

Did it use real coins? I remember some slots that still kept coins, even though they also accepted bills. This was around the time payslips were becoming more common.

I've seen jackpot payouts where the lights start going off and they bring out the slot supervisor to write up a check. I also remember the coin machines that said "all jackpots paid by hand" or something to that effect.

They accepted tokens and bills. Some people swore they had to use tokens to win and would buy rolls of nickel tokens, unwrap them, and insert one at a time.

The lights notified the slot attendants of jackpots and payouts that were higher than a certain amount that needed to be paid by the attendant. Anyone could request a check regardless of the payout or jackpot amount and they did require two supervisor's signatures.

 

[bcla]

They accepted tokens and bills. Some people swore they had to use tokens to win and would buy rolls of nickel tokens, unwrap them, and insert one at a time.

The lights notified the slot attendants of jackpots and payouts that were higher than a certain amount that needed to be paid by the attendant. Anyone could request a check regardless of the payout or jackpot amount and they did require two supervisor's signatures.

Tokens? Most of the slots I remember used real coins. I go back a long way and remember dollar slots using real dollar coins. I think it got to the point where the Eisenhower Dollar was no longer being produced, and that's when lots of casinos started going to dollar tokens. I remember seeing a dollar slot jackpot once where the "coins" coming out were a combination of the casino's tokens and Eisenhower dollars.

I've been to a few places that still use dollar slot tokens for table games, even though most of their machines have switched to bills and payslips only.

I rather liked coins because they slowed me down.

 

[Ciao Mickey]

There is some interesting info in the video.

There are 9 questions that he answers starting at 5:43.

 

[tinatark]

In Vegas and Biloxi, at least (prob other places, too, but I haven't checked) slots are regulated. You can look up the odds by denomination. In Vegas, odds are listed by denomination and location. Tribal casinos are self regulated, so those payouts are a crapshoot. Same for cruise ships. High limit rooms aren't exclusively high limit- but are much nicer, have snacks, etc.

 

[bcla]

In Vegas and Biloxi, at least (prob other places, too, but I haven't checked) slots are regulated. You can look up the odds by denomination. In Vegas, odds are listed by denomination and location. Tribal casinos are self regulated, so those payouts are a crapshoot. Same for cruise ships. High limit rooms aren't exclusively high limit- but are much nicer, have snacks, etc.

In Nevada, slots are regulated and are required to pay out an average theoretical payout of at least 75% regardless of the amount. However, I've never heard of any list of payout odds required to be posted. A few advertise something like at least 90/95/98% payout, but that's not required. The firmware in the machines has to be approved before it's placed in service, and any machine is subject to audit at any time. The Nevada Gaming Control Board has programmers on staff who can reverse engineer the payout odds, but they should already know it because all firmware has to be registered and can be tested at any time.