Duke Lacrosse

[Caradana]

This case fascinates me, probably in no small part because I went to Delbarton's sister school, know dozens of Delbarton guys to this day, and am close to the brother of one of the accused ...

This was the cover story on CNN today. It was deemed more newsworthy than bombings in Tel Aviv. Whoa ...

When the story broke, I thought that they were guilty for sure. I heard about broken fingernails in the bathroom, plus, it just seemed so vividly clear how a pack of seemingly invincible rich white boys could gang up on a stripper. Then it came out that the nails were artificial - and that there was no DNA or latex residue - and the "talk on the down low" has been that the stripper was very drunk/drugged and very fat, and they were making fun of her and eventually refused to pay her because they felt that she "underdelivered." Somehow, that seemed probable too. Jerks? YES. Deserving of flak? YES. Glad their season was cancelled? YES. Rapists? I don't know if I could vote "guilty" given the current evidence.

 

[bsnyder]

The DA is running for re-election and appears to be grandstanding for the national media. It's child's play to get an indictment like this. Guilty verdicts will be another kettle of fish entirely.

 

[OceanAnnie]

I saw a time log with a description of the photos in an article tonight: http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=local&id=4091290

It is interesting, but nothing conclusive IMO. There were cuts on the accuser that were unaccounted for. The fingernail polish seems a little far fetched, but who knows?

I agree with you about the players. Other than that, it's a hard call on what happened. Both sides seem to have some evidence to cast doubt on each other. I hope there is enough evidence on either side for justice. If they were rapists, they should be convicted. If they weren't their names should be cleared.

The sad reality is we may never know the truth.

 

[Zippa D Doodah]

I am interested in the case because I am a Duke alum, and because I lived in Durham for all those years. The racial tension is very real in Durham, and runs very deep. I am sure that there was some very bad behavior at the party that night, but I am just not seeing how the DA can come up with evidence to convict someone of rape.

That being said, all this frat-boy stuff that the university has turned a blind eye to for years MUST be dealt with. Basically saying "boys will be boys" just won't cut it.

 

[Caradana]

No takers on this one today ...

Their parents put up bail today. $400K EACH. Aaah, to be a scion of privilege ...

 

[JudicialTyranny]

Their parents put up bail today. $400K EACH. Aaah, to be a scion of privilege ...

I wouldn't necessarily jump to that envious conclusion.

To make bail of $400K, you only need 10% to make a bond through a bail bonding company. I wouldn't say that being able to scrape up $40K would put someone in the "scion of privilege" category.

Or they could have posted a property bond, meaning they put up real property in place of the bail amount. A $400K house is not uncommon in NJ where these guys are from.

These guys do definitely come from at least upper middle class families (having gone to a $22K/year prep school) but that doesn't necessarily put them in a "privileged" class.

Heck, I could put up the $40K or $400K in property, and my family was on food stamps for a while when I was growing up, so I hardly consider myself privileged.

 

[Caradana]

McFayden's parents have a $1M+ home in Mendham, gorgeous. Seligmann's two younger brothers are both attending that same $22K/year prep school now ... simultaneously. Life is good.

 

[Tiggeroo]

I don't think they're guilty and feel for the lives being ruined over this case. I especially feel for the coach who resigned, especially since it came out afterwards that there was no dna evidence. I find it hard to imagine that the type of situation she described took place with no dna.
Even if they were behaving a bit like jerks they don't deserve this and the season shouldn't have been cancelled. I would imagine that a stripper would be used to drunk stupid college kids who behave like jerks. And if she showed up drunk or on drugs, and alone she is at least partly responsible.

 

[OceanAnnie]

And if she showed up drunk or on drugs, and alone she is at least partly responsible.

She was there with another stripper.

I don't know where I read or heard it, but there was something about the guys calling her names (being overweight, racial). I don't know if there is any truth to it. The way it was presented she was angry about it. It was theorized she made the claim as a retaliation.

 

[chris1gill]

I wouldn't necessarily jump to that envious conclusion.

To make bail of $400K, you only need 10% to make a bond through a bail bonding company. I wouldn't say that being able to scrape up $40K would put someone in the "scion of privilege" category.

Or they could have posted a property bond, meaning they put up real property in place of the bail amount. A $400K house is not uncommon in NJ where these guys are from.

These guys do definitely come from at least upper middle class families (having gone to a $22K/year prep school) but that doesn't necessarily put them in a "privileged" class.

Heck, I could put up the $40K or $400K in property, and my family was on food stamps for a while when I was growing up, so I hardly consider myself privileged.

I agree with everything said here... If their prep school is only 22K a year, they should be thankful, our are 36K a year... You can pretty much rest assure that anyone making under 125K a year can get financial aid to offset some of this stuff... We are definitely not a picture of priviledge, but we have two children in a school coming very close to what these kids paid per year for their prep school & our kids are in elementary school.... I don't care what you think you know about people, you don't know anything until you see their bills, their bank accounts, their financial aid forms... Even if these people DO come from complete priviledge, that DOESN'T mean they are guilty, or that you should resent them for what they have... Perhaps their parents were smart and worked hard, and worked their way up...

Anyhow, I think the truth will come out here, but we have to be patient and not jump to conclusions until we see all the evidence that is or is not there...

 

[cinmell]

I don't think they're guilty and feel for the lives being ruined over this case. I especially feel for the coach who resigned, especially since it came out afterwards that there was no dna evidence. I find it hard to imagine that the type of situation she described took place with no dna.
Even if they were behaving a bit like jerks they don't deserve this and the season shouldn't have been cancelled. I would imagine that a stripper would be used to drunk stupid college kids who behave like jerks. And if she showed up drunk or on drugs, and alone she is at least partly responsible.

I agree with this statement.

Yesterday on the Today Show, they did a segment on this case and talked about quite a few points that may very well show that these boys are not guilty rape. Did anyone see this yesterday?

 

[tar heel]

I disagree about the coach although my initial reaction was the same as Tiggeroo's. The athletic director has said that he was warned about the behavior of his players last year after the university student affairs deparrment expressed concern that over half the players had been in trouble. He had lost control of his team.

 

[lecach]

I live in Durham. And my husband is a newspaper reporter covering sports. Primarily college football and basketball but he has been forced to work on the lacrosse. He thinks the media is going a little overboard. His editors are just crazed to get any story they can. Its really screwing with our lives right now. Of course what we're experiencing is in no way what the lacrosse team, Reade and Colin, and the accuser are going thru. My DH either wont say or doesnt have an opinion on whether the girl was raped or not. He said that he's so immersed in covering it he doesnt have time to read about it or watch it on the news.

I personally feel that its a setup. Sure - they broke some laws and rules by drinking underage, hiring a stripper, etc. But I just have a hard time believing it was rape. Especially after I heard the 911 call of the other stripper. It sounded SO very fake.

And I think they are really blowing up the whole black/white issue. Sure there are some tensions. But it seems like the black people in town are seizing on this case as an opportunity to really push the issue and make it seem worse than it is. I really dont think the incident had anything to do with black/white. It could have happened (IF it happened) just as easily to a white stripper.

And as far as the DA - he is running for reelection. And I think one of his opponents was probably doing better in the polls (I am voting for her - she got a raw deal from the DA and quit working at the DA's office). So I think the DA is seizing on this case as an opportunity to win votes. He isnt winning my vote - I am more determined than ever to vote against him.

 

[tar heel]

lacach -- Does the Herald (your DH may not work for it, of course) still print the name of the woman in rape cases? Back in the Dark Ages when I worked for the Chapel Hill paper, it was the Herald's policy to print the name.

 

[lecach]

Yes - its the Herald Sun. Do you still live in the area Tarheel? What do you do now if you dont work for the paper? DH went to Carolina by the way.

They havent printed it yet. I am pretty sure that their policy is to not print it. When my DH gets up at 10 a.m. I will ask him.

 

[tar heel]

It's been years since I worked for a paper or even lived in the Triangle. I worked for the Chapel Hill Newspaper when I first got out of college (1978-1980 -- I'm really old). At that time, the Herald and Sun printed accuser's names. I remember the policybecause I covered a couple of rape trials and, unfortunately, one of our staff members was gang raped (all were convictd). There was lots of discussion about our different policies (we didn't print the names) among those of us covering the trials. If the Herald still had the same policy, they would have printed her name already. The Charlotte Observer, while not printing her name, has provided lots of details about her life, so I'm sure the people who know her would recognize the description.

 

[bsnyder]

This case appears to have more holes than swiss cheese.

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/LegalCenter/wireStory?id=1869877&page=1

 

[Pink Partridge]

Bumping this 18 year old thread

Crystal Mangum has officially confessed to lying. She is also a murderer.

 

[Dan Murphy]

And here I thought old-timer @Caradana popped back in after so many years. If you're out there, Dana

 

[jlundeen]

Its terrible all the way around.
If it really happened as she originally claimed, she deserved to be heard and the case investigated.

But if she now is saying it was not rape, then it's just as terrible in that people had their lives changed forever and always have it in their past.

Also, it's terrible that now we may have taken a step backwards, in that some folks will again revert to not beliving a victim... once again putting the victim on trial. No one wins in that case.