Drinking topic on Podcasts

disneysteve

DIS meet junkie
Joined
Sep 29, 2002
I do haven't really seen people super bad, even at EPCOT during F&WF
I have seen it myself. It definitely happens. I think earlier someone mentioned being on a Disney bus with drunk guests cursing loudly. I've seen that in World Showcase. Pleasure Island, when it was 21+ only, was different. It was an adult venue, but Epcot is not. There shouldn't be groups of 20-somethings staggering through and cursing loudly for all to hear. I am not a prude by any measure but there's a time and a place for adult behavior and that isn't it.

We enjoy our alcohol. Heck, we were on a monorail crawl with you just a couple months ago. And we did a Drink Around the World with Corey and Julie a few years ago. But we were all civil and well-behaved and respectful of other guests. None of us were wildly intoxicated.
 

Jobie

Earned Me Ears
Joined
Jul 13, 2005
Add in drink limits, and people will "pre-game" more before going to the parks. People will always find away around the rules set before them.

I have a higher tolerance, so why should I not be able to drink anymore due to someone else's lower tolerance? That logic does not make sense, especially when the majority of the people at the parks have safe, legal transportation back to their rooms for the night. Allow people to have fun.

People cause issues and fights no matter what; alcohol does not need to be involved. Sure, alcohol can make this worse for some, but not everyone. Why limit everyone, because of some jerks? If you see an issue with a person, report it to a cast member/security.
 

SorcererHeidi

Sorcerer please cast forever love spell for me
Joined
Jul 16, 2007
My last time at F&W was 7 years ago next month. I saw people imbibing, of course, but never really "trashed". I actually saw more of that when I was staying DVC at the Boardwalk, and would hang out on the Boardwalk, or around the grassy area near there at night - LOTS of folks that looked like they were in their 20's at night, hanging out, being loud, cursing loudly with no regard for kids around, etc. Even saw one getting sick in the bushes one night. didn't want to feel like an "old get off of my lawn person", but when it continued on for several hours, and several nights, it got on my nerves, and I actually developed a bad feeling towards staying at the BW because of it.

This same "drink until you're obliterated, because you can, and/or because you're on vacation!!!!" attitude totally turns me off about the cruise industry, as it's also VERY prevalent there (especially for those on a drink package, who feel they have to "get their money's worth" , and has me on edge about a cruise I'm doing next year. So it ain't just Disney.
 
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  • nkereina

    Last chance to lose your keys.
    Joined
    Feb 11, 2009
    21 year old college program Susie shouldn't be tasked with telling inebriated people that they are cut off. The CMs are not trained bartenders who know how to identify overserved people and what to do when they need to cut someone off.

    Alcohol sales are way too important to Disney's bottom line to stop them or limit them in any way. This is why we see Food & Wine more popular than ever, craft cocktails popping up all over, new lounges in different parks, and even the implementation of alcohol on the dining plan and at TS restaurants in MK. The reward for Disney is greater than the risk, so the incidents that others speak of must be few and far between enough where Disney doesn't feel the need to change anything. And besides, most adults who drink are responsible enough to do it, so why should a few ruin it for everyone else?
     

    pdarrah

    It's nice to know you are real, too
    Joined
    Jun 3, 2004
    I haven't been to F&W in a number of years, but we were at Epcot during Marathon weekend last year and it was definitely impacted by seriously drunk guests. I'm assuming that people were "celebrating" once their race(s) were finished. We saw more than one instance of people throwing up (and not in a bush - one was in the middle of a walkway and one was inside Spice Road Table near the bar (we were dining - not at all appetizing!) There were large groups of loud guests roaming around - and yes, some of the language was pretty uncouth. We were a group of 3 adults, so it wasn't as offensive as if we had children, but it wasn't at all the sort of atmosphere we enjoy.

    I don't see the problem with serving 1 drink per person and if you are buying for multiple people, they all need to go to the counter/bar. Yes, it is slightly less convenient, but it would slow down the drinking.
     
    Joined
    Oct 23, 2015
    I don't see the problem with serving 1 drink per person and if you are buying for multiple people, they all need to go to the counter/bar. Yes, it is slightly less convenient, but it would slow down the drinking.
    I don't know that it would measurably slow it down. There wouldn't be anything to stop someone from going to another booth and getting more immediately, there wouldn't be anything to stop someone from chugging or drinking very quickly whatever they had and going up to get more. And at Oga's the process normally seemed to be you order both drinks at the same time likely due to the time limit. Personally I don't order more than one alcoholic beverage at one time (at Oga's we just wanted one each anyways) but that's me. The only people it might affect are those who don't want to wait in line to get another one (either at the place they were just at or another place). But if you're interested/gung ho in/getting drunk you probably aren't going to let that stop you. That's not to say I don't know where your line of thinking is because I do.
     
  • jcb

    always emerging from hibernation
    Joined
    Apr 28, 2007
    Google seems to be accurate for the most part.

    Florida’s dram shop statute provides that:
    A person who sells or furnishes alcoholic beverages to a person of lawful drinking age shall not thereby become liable for injury or damage caused by or resulting from the intoxication of such person, except that a person who willfully and unlawfully sells or furnishes alcoholic beverages to a person who is not of lawful drinking age or who knowingly serves a person habitually addicted to the use of any or all alcoholic beverages may become liable for injury or damage caused by or resulting from the intoxication of such minor or person. Fla. Stat. § 768.125.
    Therefore, the Florida statute bars claims for over serving alcohol except in two limited circumstances. Varner v. Celebration Cruise Operator, Inc., No. 0:15-CIV-60867-WPD, 2016 WL 7508258, at *4 (S.D. Fla. Sept. 30, 2016) (interestingly, for some, lawsuits against maritime vessels ported out of Florida do not apply this statute because federal maritime law takes precedence).

    Ellis v. N.G.N. of Tampa, Inc., 586 So.2d 1042 (Fla. 1991) (“Ellis II ”) seems to be the seminal decision on what is meant by "habitually addicted" or a “habitual drunkard”:
    We find the cause of action [in section 768.125] in this circumstance only requires evidence that the vendor had knowledge that the individual the vendor served was a habitual drunkard. Serving an individual multiple drinks on one occasion would be insufficient, in and of itself, to establish that the vendor knowingly served a habitual drunkard alcoholic beverages. On the other hand, serving an individual a substantial number of drinks on multiple occasions would be circumstantial evidence to be considered by the jury in determining whether the vendor knew that the person was a habitual drunkard. We agree with the Fifth District Court of Appeal in Sabo v. Shamrock Communications, Inc., 566 So.2d 267 (Fla. 5th DCA 1990), approved sub nom. Peoples Restaurant v. Sabo, [591 So.2d 907 (Fla. 1991) ], that this element can properly be established by circumstantial evidence.
    Id. at 1048-49; Hayes Robertson Grp., Inc. v. Cherry, 260 So. 3d 1126, 1132 (Fla. Dist. Ct. App. 2018). I suspect it would be very difficult to hold most places like Disney World (outside of their golf courses) liable under the habitual drunkard exception. It happens, however, usually where the drunk is a repeat patrol of the bar. Take Gonzalez v. Stoneybrook W. Golf Club, LLC, Inc., 225 So. 3d 891, 892 (Fla. Dist. Ct. App. 2017), where the court said a lawsuit against a golf course for causing a third-party's death could proceed because it served alcohol to one of its members (Hartman) who

    had played golf at the club approximately seventy to eighty times over a three-year period prior to the crash. Hartman was intoxicated virtually each time they played together at Stoneybrook. Hartman normally started the day by drinking two strongly poured whiskey and Cokes in sixteen-ounce Styrofoam cups poured by bartenders who were familiar with Hartman. At the turn at the midpoint of the golf round, Hartman normally went to the Stoneybrook clubhouse and purchased another strongly poured sixteen-ounce whiskey and Coke and would often buy additional drinks from the “cart girl, a Stoneybrook employee.” On the day of the crash, Hartman had four such drinks, including approximately eight ounces of straight alcohol poured by the “cart girl” on the course....
    While I thought I recalled a lawsuit alleging Disney was responsible for an intoxicated patron injuring another guest, I didn't find it. The wording of the dram shop law is so broad that I I'd expect Disney to argue it is not liable even if a drunk guest were to beat up another guest. I should be clear, however, that the dram shop law only prohibits lawsuits against sellers alleging the "intoxication" caused harm. Disney could still be sued for its own negligence in allegedly permitting one guest to beat up another guest (I mean, if Disney gets sued because a guest ran over another guests foot with an ECV or stroller) then it can be sued for negligence in not stopping attacks. So, a smart lawyer might not even mention that the aggressive guest was drunk in the lawsuit.

    Disney seems much more likely to be sued by the intoxicated person. David Koenig's book, The People V. Disneyland: How Lawsuits & Lawyers Transformed the Magic
    Learn more: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1937878031/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_4yZTDb2JGPZTB recounts several older lawsuits by drunk patrons in Disneyland. (He notes Disneyland was sued three days after it opened). My "favorite" (in the tragic sense) are the three teenagers who decided to ride Space Mountain so drunk that one climbed out of the ride vehicle and fell. He sued for the resulting paralysis but Disney won when a CM showed it was possible to climb out of the vehicle in a short time. His buddies also lost their claims alleging they were emotionally scared from the incident.

    Then there was the case involving a drunk (NY) lawyer at WDW. A guest and one of Disney's security personnel "witnessed Plaintiff hit at least two other vehicles with his car while in the parking area, and leave his car running." They reported it to OCSD officer who "determined that he was not sober enough to care for his [nine-year old] daughter." The OCSD officer "arrested Plaintiff for disorderly intoxication pursuant to Florida Statute § 856.011, and at the request of an authorized Disney representative gave Plaintiff a trespass warning." The lawyer sued Disney, Orange County and the individual officers for several claims, but they essentially alleged false arrest. The court dismissed Disney at the outset. The officer was dismissed on summary judgment. Basile v. Massaro, No. 6:10-CV-993-ORL-36, 2012 WL 3940282, at *1 (M.D. Fla. Sept. 10, 2012).
     

    OKW Lover

    Retired and living 2 miles from The Castle.
    DIS Lifetime Sponsor
    Joined
    Apr 29, 2004
    however, usually where the drunk is a repeat patrol of the bar. Take Gonzalez v. Stoneybrook W. Golf Club, LLC, Inc.,
    Interesting enough (or not), this course is now defunct. It is/was about 5 miles from WDW.
     

    jcb

    always emerging from hibernation
    Joined
    Apr 28, 2007
    Interesting enough (or not), this course is now defunct. It is/was about 5 miles from WDW.
    I guess I'm not really surprised.

    According to one article, the course closed abruptly when "the previous owners of the golf course decided they no longer wanted the club in their business portfolio" (I wouldn't either) and the new owner is letting it sit idle racking up fines from Winter Garden. https://www.orangeobserver.com/article/stoneybrook-west-golf-club-owner-faces-fines

    A lot of the lawsuits which came up when I searched for dram shop litigation in Florida were brought by insurance companies suing their own insured to get the court to say that the alcohol exclusion in the policy meant the insurance company had no duty to defend the underlying lawsuit or pay any judgment. (I know most commercial policies don't cover alcohol issues unless there is a specific rider attached, such as for a special event). So if the golf course had no insurance, I would no longer want the club in my portfolio either. This is sheer speculation on my part, of course.
     
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    V.B.

    Earning My Ears
    Joined
    May 11, 2019
    I have seen it myself. It definitely happens. I think earlier someone mentioned being on a Disney bus with drunk guests cursing loudly. I've seen that in World Showcase. Pleasure Island, when it was 21+ only, was different. It was an adult venue, but Epcot is not. There shouldn't be groups of 20-somethings staggering through and cursing loudly for all to hear. I am not a prude by any measure but there's a time and a place for adult behavior and that isn't it.

    We enjoy our alcohol. Heck, we were on a monorail crawl with you just a couple months ago. And we did a Drink Around the World with Corey and Julie a few years ago. But we were all civil and well-behaved and respectful of other guests. None of us were wildly intoxicated.
    That's what I think quite a few have the issues with. If I go to an outdoor concert during the summer (for example), I wouldn't be surprised to see that from the odd attender, but Disney has worked hard to cultivate an atmosphere for families. I'm not saying that it has nothing to offer people who are single, or who don't have kids with them. BUT... There is a time and place for people staggering through a park where families are going to be wandering around. Especially when people are forking out thousands and thousands of dollars and many of them have planned a family vacation. I can't see Disney stopping this though, as it's making them money.
     
  • Jimmy Mouse

    My other car is the Monorail
    Joined
    Sep 3, 2017
    My wife and I stayed at AKL on September 7 for a quick Food and Wine trip. On the way home that evening, on the bus there were three really drunk people loudly cursing worse than a drunk sailor. The F bombs were flying left and right. There were children all around us and I could see parents being upset at these people.
    We have heard bad language more than a few times but once it was like you described. Idiots had no respect for the children around them. Finally I had enough so I stood up in front of them, pointed at my wife and girls and said apologize. One laughed and I said "I won't ask again". He swallowed real hard and looked at them and said he was sorry. Then kept quiet till they got off the bus. But those times were isolated incidents. We have encountered way more nice guest at WDW then the jerks but maybe once I have had a few beers I just don't notice them :drinking1
     
    Joined
    Oct 23, 2015
    We have heard bad language more than a few times but once it was like you described. Idiots had no respect for the children around them. Finally I had enough so I stood up in front of them, pointed at my wife and girls and said apologize. One laughed and I said "I won't ask again". He swallowed real hard and looked at them and said he was sorry. Then kept quiet till they got off the bus. But those times were isolated incidents. We have encountered way more nice guest at WDW then the jerks but maybe once I have had a few beers I just don't notice them :drinking1
    Not that I don't understand where you're coming from but threatening other guests isn't good either. It can get ugly really fast and contributes to the poor environment you're trying to stop. Security is much better suited for that or at the very least alerting a CM (or in this case bus driver) who can then alert security.
     

    Jimmy Mouse

    My other car is the Monorail
    Joined
    Sep 3, 2017
    Not that I don't understand where you're coming from but threatening other guests isn't good either. It can get ugly really fast and contributes to the poor environment you're trying to stop. Security is much better suited for that or at the very least alerting a CM (or in this case bus driver) who can then alert security.
    I never said I threatened him. And to make things clear, I didn't threaten him. I told him to apologize in a very calm voice. Plus I'm not stupid. I will never ever get into a physical confrontation with anyone anywhere especially when I'm with my family. If the other person gets physical with me I simply let security or the police handle it then I press charges and carry on with my day. Only exception is if they hurt my wife or girls. At that point yeah, I will probably go to jail that day.
     
    Joined
    Oct 23, 2015
    I never said I threatened him. And to make things clear, I didn't threaten him. I told him to apologize in a very calm voice. Plus I'm not stupid. I will never ever get into a physical confrontation with anyone anywhere especially when I'm with my family. If the other person gets physical with me I simply let security or the police handle it then I press charges and carry on with my day. Only exception is if they hurt my wife or girls. At that point yeah, I will probably go to jail that day.
    You demanding them to apologize and following it up with "I won't ask again" is a threat (ETA: as well as getting up in front of them). You don't have to say "I threatened him" for it to be a threat.

    You have no idea what those guys would have done when told to apologize and then further told the individual you weren't going to ask again. That's instigating a situation and potentially escalating. You can't really let security handle it after the fact when you've put yourself in that situation and a bus full of people.

    Best to just let a CM know who can alert security if need be IMO. Of course YMMV just saying if I was in that bus I'd feel uncomfortable and wary that instead of just having people cursing I would now have a potential for something to get out of hand quickly because another guest decide to have words with the other guests.

    Security is there for a reason (same point for this thread that increased security is the way to go rather than try to have CMs do something they are ill equiped and not trained on) and I would rather they have the responsibility to handle unruly guests than CMs or other park guests.

    Anyways obviously a tangent to the thread :)
     
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    disneyland_is_magic

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Aug 16, 2016
    I swear I must be getting to be an old lady because I have lost a lot of appeal for this. I am sort of disgusted Disney has this as such a part of their $$$ plan to this extent that you folks are discussing breathalyzers, wristbands, calling security, etc. Security should be on top of this without our assistance.
    Most of my friends have out grown this phase of over drinking. I have one friend who still does. They are back East right now traveling solo, we talked yesterday, as a precaution we went over their evening plans and they agreed to text once they had gotten back to their hotel room safely.
    When I last successfully reached them they were way, way too drunk and not cooperating with me to get them in an Uber.
    I can tell by their phone activity they are likely okay, but I will feel better once I hear from them.
    So ugh to this whole topic.
     

    DG-12

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    May 17, 2000
    I don’t have a bunch of solutions. But I wil say when this became a real problem at Sea World, the company significantly reduced alcohol availability throughout the park. And it stopped.
    It’s not just Food and Wine.
    We were there in May during Flower and Garden. Lots of bachelor/bachelorette parties traveling through World showcase drinking at each stop. In France, security was breaking up a fight between two women who were clearly intoxicated.
    It wasn’t Bourbon Street but it wasn’t for families either. The groups were having fun. And I am not begrudging them that. However, their decisions do impact my vacation. So if they decide to take raunchy photos in front of the fountain in Italy while my kids are there, it’s uncomfortable. If two women brawl in France and security blocks the pathway while it gets dealt with, it does impact us. And it does make it less of a family Friendly environment.
    i do think this is an issue. I don’t know what the solution Is.
     

    Spencer Wright

    Constantly craving a zebra dome...
    Joined
    Jul 31, 2017
    ....bachelorette parties traveling through World showcase drinking at each stop. In France, security was breaking up a fight between two women who were clearly intoxicated....
    First they ruined some gay bars in Philly (and elsewhere) and now there ruining the world show case! Those bachelorette parties need to be self-contained somewhere. :mic:
     

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