Doomsday scenario for resale purchasers

[moose81]

I'm in the middle of researching DVC for a potential first purchase and I feel like I'm coming in at an odd time due to all the changes that Disney is making. I am understanding that, in the future, someone buying a resale Riviera contract will only be able to stay at that resort and none of the others. Sorry if this is a dumb question, but is anything stopping Disney from adding that same restriction to the older resorts in the future? Just want to make sure we don't buy a contract assuming that we would be able to book anywhere at the 7 month mark (given availability, of course) but, 5 years later, we end up only being allowed to book at our home resort.

 

[Matty B13]

I'm in the middle of researching DVC for a potential first purchase and I feel like I'm coming in at an odd time due to all the changes that Disney is making. I am understanding that, in the future, someone buying a resale Riviera contract will only be able to stay at that resort and none of the others. Sorry if this is a dumb question, but is anything stopping Disney from adding that same restriction to the older resorts in the future? Just want to make sure we don't buy a contract assuming that we would be able to book anywhere at the 7 month mark (given availability, of course) but, 5 years later, we end up only being allowed to book at our home resort.

They have already, in a certain way. Resale Riviera contracts can only book Riviera and Resale Original 14 Resorts (L14) can only book L14 resorts after the 1/19/2019 restrictions.

 

[moose81]

They have already, in a certain way. Resale Riviera contracts can only book Riviera and Resale Original 14 Resorts (L14) can only book L14 resorts after the 1/19/2019 restrictions.

Yes, I understand that. My question is, can they restrict the L14 resorts in the future so that owners would only be able to book at their home resort? Or are we guaranteed that any L14 owner will always be able to book at other L14 resorts? (with availability)

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Yes, I understand that. My question is, can they restrict the L14 resorts in the future so that owners would only be able to book at their home resort? Or are we guaranteed that any L14 owner will always be able to book at other L14 resorts? (with availability)

Not easily. Fundamentally, they would have to change those resorts' agreements with Buena Vista Trading (BVT), the 'parent' condo association for trade. This is legally extremely difficult.

Nothing is impossible, but the cost involved, as well as attempting to prove it was in anyone's best interests but their own, are major hurdles.

 

[moose81]

Not easily. Fundamentally, they would have to change those resorts' agreements with Buena Vista Trading (BVT), the 'parent' condo association for trade. This is legally extremely difficult.

Nothing is impossible, but the cost involved, as well as attempting to prove it was in anyone's best interests but their own, are major hurdles.

Thanks, this is good to know!

 

[Dean]

My view is this. I doubt it will ever be a major issue overall but it will be a big issue for some and in some cases where they didn't understand what they were getting into.

Here are my thoughts:

• Future resorts will have the same restrictions as Riviera and thus resale owners there will be restricted to there only and those resale owners in the previous DVC who are affected will not have access to any new resorts going forward.
• Over the life of the 2042 contracts most members will be qualified in terms of trading to all DVC resorts but as time goes on, there will be a small but slowly increasing group of resorts. Thus it'll never be a big issue or if it is, it'll be quite some time prior.
• This will have a minor impact on resale prices for all resorts but likely NOT a major one.
• The 7 month window will get slowly even tighter as this issue builds because owners will reserve where they can and thus others won't be able to get in. That'll be true at all resorts even SSR but more so for those that are of higher demand.
• These issues will have LITTLE impact on sales and likely not enough for anyone to notice. Sure there will be some that say they wouldn't or didn't buy because of these issues but it won't be enough to truly get anyone's attention. And if I'm wrong and it does have larger impact, it hurts all members though likely some more than others.

 

[skippytx]

I'm of the opinion, if you're buying resale you need to buy where you want to stay, and don't expect anything else other than being able to use your points at your home resort. Anything else is bonus and shouldn't be counted on.

I haven't even been an owner for 2 years yet and things have changed dramatically. I'm still happy I bought into DVC, but lets just say the shine wears off after a while. No regrets though. I bought into DVC to use my points at my home resort, and no matter what changes they can't take that away. The perks and discounts are nice, and I even bought 25 points direct for the blue card, but I don't count on those things lasting, and they didn't influence my decision to buy.

 

[TexasChick123]

I'm of the opinion, if you're buying resale you need to buy where you want to stay, and don't expect anything else other than being able to use your points at your home resort. Anything else is bonus and shouldn't be counted on.

I haven't even been an owner for 2 years yet and things have changed dramatically. I'm still happy I bought into DVC, but lets just say the shine wears off after a while. No regrets though. I bought into DVC to use my points at my home resort, and no matter what changes they can't take that away. The perks and discounts are nice, and I even bought 25 points direct for the blue card, but I don't count on those things lasting, and they didn't influence my decision to buy.

I agree. If you buy where you want to stay, then these restrictions won’t matter to you as much. If you’re trying to buy the cheapest property to stay elsewhere at 7-months or just like staying at other properties, then you could be playing with fire. We only bought at the resorts we loved. Whether or not these restrictions will affect the resale value remains to be seen. No one can argue that the value of your contract shouldn't go down by 1/50th every year since you lose 1 year’s worth of points every year, yet the values increase. Supply and demand win out here. The best advice is buy where you want to stay. Good luck with your decision!

 

[LAX]

I'm of the opinion, if you're buying resale you need to buy where you want to stay, and don't expect anything else other than being able to use your points at your home resort. Anything else is bonus and shouldn't be counted on.

I haven't even been an owner for 2 years yet and things have changed dramatically. I'm still happy I bought into DVC, but lets just say the shine wears off after a while. No regrets though. I bought into DVC to use my points at my home resort, and no matter what changes they can't take that away. The perks and discounts are nice, and I even bought 25 points direct for the blue card, but I don't count on those things lasting, and they didn't influence my decision to buy.

Maybe not completely away. But, DVD can, if it so chooses, turn your annual 7-day stay at your home resort into a 4-day stay (not counting banking and borrowing) by manipulating the point chart. I realize this won't be limited to resale owners, but my point is I am not sure what is actually guaranteed by the contract I signed when I decided to take the plunge. Sounds extreme? Perhaps, but with the direction the current DVD management is headed, I won't be surprised by anything else it might pull out of its hat.

LAX

 

[mentos]

My largest and primary contract is VGC, so I'm already at the "doomsday" scenario of having a TON of demand right at the 7 month mark from owners at the other resorts competing for a very limited supply.

Someone said it better than me above, I bought this contract on resale with the intent of using it solely for this resort and knew ahead of time what the availability looked like when I conducted my due diligence prior to bidding.

 

[drusba]

I'm in the middle of researching DVC for a potential first purchase and I feel like I'm coming in at an odd time due to all the changes that Disney is making. I am understanding that, in the future, someone buying a resale Riviera contract will only be able to stay at that resort and none of the others. Sorry if this is a dumb question, but is anything stopping Disney from adding that same restriction to the older resorts in the future? Just want to make sure we don't buy a contract assuming that we would be able to book anywhere at the 7 month mark (given availability, of course) but, 5 years later, we end up only being allowed to book at our home resort.

The answer is maybe. The POS documents for the pre-Riviera resorts, including the Declarations and applicable DVC Resort Agreements, and also the Purchase Agreements, all have terms which declare that any owner and any Club Member, including resale purchasers, have a right to use the DVC Reservation Component to reserve DVC Resorts other than their own. Thus, if Disney obeys all those prior representations and rights contained in those documents, it will not prohibit a resale purchaser of the pre-Riviera resorts from reserving non-owned DVC Resorts.

Nevertheless, the answer is maybe, because in the last three months, Disney has decided that the official documents, and its representations that were previously made, do not control. In fact, it has even told members in the last couple of months that it is not bound by prior written representations. Moreover, if it had followed the actual representations and rights set out in the official documents, it would not have added Riviera as a DVC Resort via a DVC Resort Agreement that contains any restrictions on resale owners ability to reserve Riviera.

Some may feel safe because Disney has typically grandfathered existing owners, and thus, whenever it creates new restrictions for resale owners, it only applies them to those who purchase after the new restrictions have been created. But based on what we have seen lately, no one should feel safe with this new Disney timeshare company that has replaced the one that at one time was considered the model timeshare company.

 

[Ensusieasm]

The answer is maybe. The POS documents for the pre-Riviera resorts, including the Declarations and applicable DVC Resort Agreements, and also the Purchase Agreements, all have terms which declare that any owner and any Club Member, including resale purchasers, have a right to use the DVC Reservation Component to reserve DVC Resorts other than their own. Thus, if Disney obeys all those prior representations and rights contained in those documents, it will not prohibit a resale purchaser of the pre-Riviera resorts from reserving non-owned DVC Resorts.

Nevertheless, the answer is maybe, because in the last three months, Disney has decided that the official documents, and its representations that were previously made, do not control. In fact, it has even told members in the last couple of months that it is not bound by prior written representations. Moreover, if it had followed the actual representations and rights set out in the official documents, it would not have added Riviera as a DVC Resort via a DVC Resort Agreement that contains any restrictions on resale owners ability to reserve Riviera.

Some may feel safe because Disney has typically grandfathered existing owners, and thus, whenever it creates new restrictions for resale owners, it only applies them to those who purchase after the new restrictions have been created. But based on what we have seen lately, no one should feel safe with this new Disney timeshare company that has replaced the one that at one time was considered the model timeshare company.

Agreed. You have summed it up very nicely. In other words...Buyer beware.

 

[disneynutz]

The major issue isn't what we know, it's what we don't know. Disney/DVC have proven that they make mistakes or will do what needs to be done to make sales, (Aulani). They might set dues low to attract buyers, (BLT). They will change the policies and rules and point charts, restrict resale buyers, create a second DVC, all to make additional profits without regard for their owners and guests.

Like I said it's not what we know, it's what they will do tomorrow that we should be concerned about.

Bill