Don't like new fastpass plus!

[pagntbaby]

We haven't been in two years and will be going back in December. I have all of my fast passes ready so hopefully I planned well enough so we are not running all over the park. That is my biggest fear.

 

[Shaden]

It's only as complicated as you choose to make it.

Whatever complication there is does not come just from FP+. The first time we visited Disneyland in 1960 we had no idea until we got there about the A-E ticket books.

If you want to dislike FP+ fine. But to suggest that it marks a departure from Walt Disney's principles any more than a lot of other things that have happened over the last 50 years is, IMHO, kind of laughable. There have been large guidebooks with tips on how to visit and tour Disneyland and Disney World for decades. People didn't buy them because visiting the parks was purely intuitive.

Though we don't often agree, I do agree with you here. The complication is not solely FP+.

But it is important to remember, as I have pointed out elsewhere, it IS an important element. Because there are significant negative implications of not using the system (ones that weren't as sever if you chose not to use legacy FP) ... and complication of a process does not grow linearly.

While a 2 stage process might seem literally twice as complicated as a 1 stage, a 3 stage process is not 50% more complicated, it might indeed be twice as complicated as a 2 stage, thus 4 times as complicated as a 1 stage, etc etc. The overall growth in complexity is exponential, particularly for interdependent elements, chronologically staggered.

I actually think on of the things that would make the system better would be to be able to book ADRs and FP+ at the same point in time. Instead of having that 120 day gap, and then hoping they match up. Now, we book hoppers, so we don't really mind all that much. But our last trip, when the other 11 people in our group, that only joined us for our second week, didn't have hoppers, that made things ... MUCH more complicated. But its also MUCH more money for them. Its just 2 of us ... they are families with kids ...

 

[MelissathePooh]

One step ahead of you.

And we're right behind you Going to DL in April next year and can't wait! We're actually in Orlando now for Thanksgiving week and are heading to Universal tomorrow for 2 nights - not even bothering with Disney. May head over there to see some holiday decorations, but after the zoo of fall break at Disney last month I'm not in any hurry to be honest.

 

[Mambo Junkie]

I agree.

I think you hit it. If and when I return to Disney I will consider it to be an half day experience every day. I'll use my easy FP+ and be done with my three picks and leave the park. I'll mix it up with doing mornings on certain days, afternoons on other days and evenings still on other days. I will go elsewhere with my freed up time.

Since, the Disney parks are open later than many other competitors especially with late magic hours for onsite guests I may use the late hours for Disney and spend my day elsewhere. It will be a longer day, but I will be able to accomplish much more overall everywhere and therefore I will have a shorter stay in Florida overall. We like all the different parks; so, we will make it work in a different way if I return. We can do a nap and get in a longer day between two, different parks. I can see this working. I will cut down on resort costs this way with a shorter stay.

I can see doing early extra magic mornings without FP+ and leaving the park by 11 am. Then go elsewhere for the day and return to Disney in the evening with my 3 choices for FP+.

I'm formulating new parks strategies and I'm confident I will find what works out best for us. Bottom line I will spend less time at Disney, but I will be more commando style during my time there.

I absolutely won't waste my time in long lines. I won't go on lesser rides. I absolutely won't be dining in the parks; unless, I'm there during a free dining promo. I won't be shopping at all. I'll concentrate on my Disney FP+ and get out of there.

This is how we're doing it, except we will probably be at the parks 4 or so hours because of our ADRs. Still that leaves a big chunk of the day to do whatever and it won't be at (at least) that park. Exception: 1 long day starting at 12:00 (Soarin) Nemo, Lunch, TT (single rider) whatever else we can grab, then 5:00 Candlelight Processional. Akershus then outta there. Same with DHS but 12:30 ADR then 3 fp, Osbourne lights Fantasmic, outta there. Unless it's not too crowded. Then we'll wander.

 

[famy27]

Some recent reports say otherwise.

Interesting. How recent? It worked fine for us in June and September.

 

[Luckybee]

Though we don't often agree, I do agree with you here. The complication is not solely FP+.

But it is important to remember, as I have pointed out elsewhere, it IS an important element. Because there are significant negative implications of not using the system (ones that weren't as sever if you chose not to use legacy FP) ... and complication of a process does not grow linearly.

While a 2 stage process might seem literally twice as complicated as a 1 stage, a 3 stage process is not 50% more complicated, it might indeed be twice as complicated as a 2 stage, thus 4 times as complicated as a 1 stage, etc etc. The overall growth in complexity is exponential, particularly for interdependent elements, chronologically staggered.

I actually think on of the things that would make the system better would be to be able to book ADRs and FP+ at the same point in time. Instead of having that 120 day gap, and then hoping they match up. Now, we book hoppers, so we don't really mind all that much. But our last trip, when the other 11 people in our group, that only joined us for our second week, didn't have hoppers, that made things ... MUCH more complicated. But its also MUCH more money for them. Its just 2 of us ... they are families with kids ...

I absolutely agree with this although god forbid I wouldn't want to have to book rides 6 months in advance. One wonders why the couldn't simply open up dining at the 60 day mark instead of the 180 mark. I mean I get that Disney is unique but even the best restaurants in the world(the real world) don't have to be booked that far out.

 

[maxiesmom]

I absolutely agree with this although god forbid I wouldn't want to have to book rides 6 months in advance. One wonders why the couldn't simply open up dining at the 60 day mark instead of the 180 mark. I mean I get that Disney is unique but even the best restaurants in the world(the real world) don't have to be booked that far out.

They did a test of a shorter ADR window a few years ago. Nothing ever came of it, so they must not have liked the results for one reason or another.

 

[Robo]

They did a test of a shorter ADR window a few years ago. Nothing ever came of it, so they must not have liked the results for one reason or another.

Yup.
Although I wouldn't necessarily call it a "test",
the ADR booking time was 90 days in advance for a quite awhile.

 

[Suvadoo]

We are here now, got in late Thursday night. Over the last two days we've been to Epcot and Hollywood yesterday, Animal Kingdom this morning and headed to Magic Kingdom tonight. A few observations so far:

1. The MDE app sucks while in the parks. Constant error messages about technical difficulties. So we'd head to a kiosk or guest relations and often those were having issues as well. But the iPad's the CM's were using didn't seem to have any issues. One CM told me they are on a different network.

2. They need to do a much better job with FP Kiosks. The locations aren't easily identified, and it often involves a trek halfway across the park to find one.

3. I thought scheduling three FP's back to back was smart but it turns out you better not get in any standby lines during that time. We would stress out and keep checking the time to make sure we were getting thru a standby lime and attraction before our next FP had expired. Not fun.

4. I haven't counted everybody in the parks, but while it doesn't seem like that many more people this year than last year at the same time, SB lines for everything are definitely longer. Substantially longer. And don't tell me that hasn't been your experience unless you are in the parks right now in which case let me know, we'll meet up and go time some lines to prove it.

5. I've lost confidence in the "Actual" wait times shown on the two different apps offering them right now. My experience is that a 30 minute posted wait time is much more accurate right now then the 12 minute 'Actual' the app might be showing.

6. Most importantly, I've observed a high level of guest ignorance when it comes FP. The stats might indicate more guests use it but I'm finding that certainly doesn't mean they understand it. I don't know if Disney will ever be able to reduce the learning curve, but it causes visible frustrations for many and confused delays for others. I almost wanted to intervene when a CM was suggesting to a newbie couple how they may want to consider Nemo instead of Soarin.
That's it so far, I'm somewhat dismayed that Rope Drop is substantially less of an advantage than it used to be but I'm looking forward to seeing how this progresses over the next two weeks.
.

This is what I was thinking when I was there. Even though there are claims that 50-75% of guest are using FP+, I wonder if that's really true. Most guests seem pretty clueless about the system and how it works. I think it's funny that CM's are suggesting Nemo instead of Soarin'., Maybe next week, when the crowds are really high, they'll suggest EO and Figment.
IMO, as long as FP is around, Disney will always have to have a battalion of Guest Educators in their parks.

 

[surferdave]

I don't know if Disney will ever be able to reduce the learning curve, but it causes visible frustrations for many and confused delays for others.

Not gonna happen unless they substantially up the percentage of frequent guests. As long as the guests in the parks are mostly first timers or people who only make it to WDW every few years the learning curve will not budge.

IMO, as long as FP is around, Disney will always have to have a battalion of Guest Educators in their parks.

That is going to make shareholder & board meetings increasingly uncomfortable for WDW management. They can throw out all the dubious claims of 90% satisfaction with MDE they want, and they can try to credit increases at the turnstiles to MDE as well (which should probably go first and foremost to Anna & Elsa). But the numbers that the analysts see most related to the system are all the unplanned overhead costs, especially extra CMs in the parks just to support all the "satisfied" guests.

 

[wisblue]

We are here now, got in late Thursday night. Over the last two days we've been to Epcot and Hollywood yesterday, Animal Kingdom this morning and headed to Magic Kingdom tonight. A few observations so far:


4. I haven't counted everybody in the parks, but while it doesn't seem like that many more people this year than last year at the same time, SB lines for everything are definitely longer. Substantially longer. And don't tell me that hasn't been your experience unless you are in the parks right now in which case let me know, we'll meet up and go time some lines to prove it.

Obviously, I can't comment on your specific experiences without being at the same places you have been at the same times on the same days.

But, I will offer this based on the observed crowd levels posted on the Touring Plans site.

When you are talking about the same time last year, I don't know if that means the exact same parks on the exact same corresponding days. But, if I understand you right, you went to Epcot and DHS on Friday, November 21 and DAK and MK on Saturday, November 22.

According to Touring Plans, on Friday, the resort crowd level was a 4, the crowd at Epcot was a 3 and DHS was a 5. On Saturday, the resort crowd level was a 6, DAK was a 4 and MK was a 7.

By comparison, on Friday, November 22, 2013, Touring Plans had the resort at crowd level 2, with Epcot a 2 and DHS a 1. On Saturday, November 23, 2013, the resort level was a 3, DAK was a 4, and MK was a 4.

Based on this, it seems possible that you are experiencing larger overall crowds than on the same corresponding days last year. It might be another example of Disney doing a better job of drawing people into the parks on what used to be lower crowd days. Or it might just be bad luck.

 

[wisblue]

6. Most importantly, I've observed a high level of guest ignorance when it comes FP. The stats might indicate more guests use it but I'm finding that certainly doesn't mean they understand it. I don't know if Disney will ever be able to reduce the learning curve, but it causes visible frustrations for many and confused delays for others. I almost wanted to intervene when a CM was suggesting to a newbie couple how they may want to consider Nemo instead of Soarin.

I have no doubt that there is a lot of ignorance about FP+, just as there was a lot of ignorance about paper FP and things like what time the 3:00 parade starts. The difference is that a lot more guests now know about FP+ and are trying to use it and it's inevitable that those guests are going to have varying degrees of understanding.

On your specific example, while that sounds funny, unless you were hovering over the CM and the guests to hear their entire conversation, there could be a number of legitimate reasons for someone to suggest Nemo over Soarin. Maybe the return time for Soarin' wouldn't have been convenient for them due to an ADR or intending to leave the park, or maybe they had concerns about what type of ride Soarin was and whether it was something they would want to do.

Maybe the more significant part of this anecdote is that a same day FP for Soarin was available.

 

[Laketravis]

Wis, I'm sure that's what the crowd numbers were but we are also hearing reports that they may not be accurate. It is what it is, and if it's even twice as crowded now as the same days last year, that in itself is something to emphasize in a touring plan and I could consider my observations that of a stress test for the first time FP+ is the sole choice in the parks this time of year. To be honest, I thought MK was actually LESS crowded last night then the same Saturday before Thanksgiving last year; we walked right up to an empty curb spot on Main Street just as the ELP started. But I don't want to dwell on subjective crowd numbers.

And I was sitting next to the couple the entire time at Innovations when the CM was giving them 'advice' about which FP's they should consider getting. While anecdotal, it's almost stand-up comedy material to hear a CM recommend a Fast Pass for Nemo under any context.

Anyway, last night we get to MK. Used our first FP at BTMR and had 40 minutes until our next one at HM. We get over there, SB is posted at 30 minutes so we figure we might as well stand in line because there isn't anything else we can do until our FP time. But then we ended up spending over 50 minutes in the line (the app Wait time did update while we where in line) and when we got off we decided to let the FP for HM go unused and headed over to SM for our next one. But now we've got 30 minutes or so until we can use it and get on CoP, one of the only walk ons still left. I couldn't help but wonder why they didn't put a FP+ queue there but glad they didn't.

After using our third FP we wanted to see what happens with the 4th and beyond. Here's where the weaknesses with the FP+ Kiosk situation really shine. It was quite a trek to one of the few locations in the park. When we got there, we found 4 kiosk with 4 CM's and a line of 28 people (I did count them). I get in line and figure out it took a CM almost 8 minutes to help the guest and I could be waiting in line upwards of 30 minutes or me. When the guest in front of me came to the same conclusion and commented how ridiculous it was, I agreed and we both left the line.

My advice on 4th and beyond FPs is that it can be an exercise in futility. They are not located within convenient range, the choices are almost always quite limited, and the lines to use them can be quite long and if you spent 30 minutes to get an FP for an attraction that had a 30 minute standby line when you get there, what did you accomplish?

The rules of use appear to be quite simple. Schedule for the afternoon or evening, spread them out a little bit, and don't put too much hope into 4th and beyond additional FP's. While Disney certainly put the possibility out there, they aren't making it easy to obtain them.

Headed back to MK this afternoon on a party night day to see how different the experience could be from last night.

 

[Frozen2014]

I absolutely agree with this although god forbid I wouldn't want to have to book rides 6 months in advance. One wonders why the couldn't simply open up dining at the 60 day mark instead of the 180 mark. I mean I get that Disney is unique but even the best restaurants in the world(the real world) don't have to be booked that far out.

Personally I would hate to have to book both ADR and FP at the same time. When split up, it let me research the restaurants and park days. Then after that could concentrate on the rides and a touring plan. But I'm a planner and we booked our trip 9 months in advance. I can see the other argument if not booking so early.

 

[Mambo Junkie]

Wis, I'm sure that's what the crowd numbers were but we are also hearing reports that they may not be accurate. It is what it is, and if it's even twice as crowded now as the same days last year, that in itself is something to emphasize in a touring plan and I could consider my observations that of a stress test for the first time FP+ is the sole choice in the parks this time of year. To be honest, I thought MK was actually LESS crowded last night then the same Saturday before Thanksgiving last year; we walked right up to an empty curb spot on Main Street just as the ELP started. But I don't want to dwell on subjective crowd numbers.

And I was sitting next to the couple the entire time at Innovations when the CM was giving them 'advice' about which FP's they should consider getting. While anecdotal, it's almost stand-up comedy material to hear a CM recommend a Fast Pass for Nemo under any context.

Anyway, last night we get to MK. Used our first FP at BTMR and had 40 minutes until our next one at HM. We get over there, SB is posted at 30 minutes so we figure we might as well stand in line because there isn't anything else we can do until our FP time. But then we ended up spending over 50 minutes in the line (the app Wait time did update while we where in line) and when we got off we decided to let the FP for HM go unused and headed over to SM for our next one. But now we've got 30 minutes or so until we can use it and get on CoP, one of the only walk ons still left. I couldn't help but wonder why they didn't put a FP+ queue there but glad they didn't.

After using our third FP we wanted to see what happens with the 4th and beyond. Here's where the weaknesses with the FP+ Kiosk situation really shine. It was quite a trek to one of the few locations in the park. When we got there, we found 4 kiosk with 4 CM's and a line of 28 people (I did count them). I get in line and figure out it took a CM almost 8 minutes to help the guest and I could be waiting in line upwards of 30 minutes or me. When the guest in front of me came to the same conclusion and commented how ridiculous it was, I agreed and we both left the line.

My advice on 4th and beyond FPs is that it can be an exercise in futility. They are not located within convenient range, the choices are almost always quite limited, and the lines to use them can be quite long and if you spent 30 minutes to get an FP for an attraction that had a 30 minute standby line when you get there, what did you accomplish?

The rules of use appear to be quite simple. Schedule for the afternoon or evening, spread them out a little bit, and don't put too much hope into 4th and beyond additional FP's. While Disney certainly put the possibility out there, they aren't making it easy to obtain them.

Headed back to MK this afternoon on a party night day to see how different the experience could be from last night.

Keep reporting! I, for one, am avidly reading!

 

[Suvadoo]

Wis, I'm sure that's what the crowd numbers were but we are also hearing reports that they may not be accurate. It is what it is, and if it's even twice as crowded now as the same days last year, that in itself is something to emphasize in a touring plan and I could consider my observations that of a stress test for the first time FP+ is the sole choice in the parks this time of year. To be honest, I thought MK was actually LESS crowded last night then the same Saturday before Thanksgiving last year; we walked right up to an empty curb spot on Main Street just as the ELP started. But I don't want to dwell on subjective crowd numbers.

And I was sitting next to the couple the entire time at Innovations when the CM was giving them 'advice' about which FP's they should consider getting. While anecdotal, it's almost stand-up comedy material to hear a CM recommend a Fast Pass for Nemo under any context.
Anyway, last night we get to MK. Used our first FP at BTMR and had 40 minutes until our next one at HM. We get over there, SB is posted at 30 minutes so we figure we might as well stand in line because there isn't anything else we can do until our FP time. But then we ended up spending over 50 minutes in the line (the app Wait time did update while we where in line) and when we got off we decided to let the FP for HM go unused and headed over to SM for our next one. But now we've got 30 minutes or so until we can use it and get on CoP, one of the only walk ons still left. I couldn't help but wonder why they didn't put a FP+ queue there but glad they didn't.

After using our third FP we wanted to see what happens with the 4th and beyond. Here's where the weaknesses with the FP+ Kiosk situation really shine. It was quite a trek to one of the few locations in the park. When we got there, we found 4 kiosk with 4 CM's and a line of 28 people (I did count them). I get in line and figure out it took a CM almost 8 minutes to help the guest and I could be waiting in line upwards of 30 minutes or me. When the guest in front of me came to the same conclusion and commented how ridiculous it was, I agreed and we both left the line.

My advice on 4th and beyond FPs is that it can be an exercise in futility. They are not located within convenient range, the choices are almost always quite limited, and the lines to use them can be quite long and if you spent 30 minutes to get an FP for an attraction that had a 30 minute standby line when you get there, what did you accomplish?

The rules of use appear to be quite simple. Schedule for the afternoon or evening, spread them out a little bit, and don't put too much hope into 4th and beyond additional FP's. While Disney certainly put the possibility out there, they aren't making it easy to obtain them.

Headed back to MK this afternoon on a party night day to see how different the experience could be from last night.

Are you absolutely sure the couple didn't have a profound fear of heights? I'm just sayin'

 

[mickeyluv'r]

After using our third FP we wanted to see what happens with the 4th and beyond. Here's where the weaknesses with the FP+ Kiosk situation really shine. It was quite a trek to one of the few locations in the park. When we got there, we found 4 kiosk with 4 CM's and a line of 28 people (I did count them). I get in line and figure out it took a CM almost 8 minutes to help the guest and I could be waiting in line upwards of 30 minutes or me. When the guest in front of me came to the same conclusion and commented how ridiculous it was, I agreed and we both left the line.

.

This is effectively what we witnessed as well.

The guest incentive to get a FP at all is to reduce wait time in line. At least it is advertised on that premise.

When the wait line to OBTAIN a FP is LONGER than the attraction's STANDBY line, then the 4th FP is effectively useless.

Last April, guests could only MODIFY FP+'s via the kiosk line.
During an April visit, I did the same thing as Lake Travis, and quickly assessed the kiosk line to MODIFY a FP was 50-60minutes long! The standby line was only 30 minutes. Standby was the far more efficient prospect. What a terrible system!

***********
I agree that FP+ is just one of the ways that touring WDW has become excessively complicated.

The great failure of FP+ though is that it IS not user friendly. It is not intuitive.
It has NOT simplified the guest experience.

 

[bumbershoot]

I have no doubt that there is a lot of ignorance about FP+, just as there was a lot of ignorance about paper FP and things like what time the 3:00 parade starts.

Now come on. I think most of us know that the "what time is the 3 o'clock parade" question is REALLY "what time does the 3 o'clock parade come by this spot that I'm standing in?" Which is a totally valid question and makes absolute sense.



Since we know that the "satisfaction" surveys are full of loaded questions where you cannot work out a way to say that you didn't like it, there's no way that I personally can trust any sort of releases of info about how many people have been ot the parks. And, again, they have no idea why there might or might not be an increase, since they don't seem to be asking those questions.

 

[Snoozan]

I am just back from a trip from 11/15-11/19, with park days on Sunday, Monday and Tuesday. I was surprised(and not pleasantly) at how long the SB lines were for a supposedly 'slow' time. I had my FP+'s, but other than those short waits, we were waiting for almost every other attraction we wanted, when I have never had to wait before. I usually go at slower times and have probably been spoiled, but I think FP+ is making things worse, not better. I missed the spontaneity of my trip. I can't believe Disney is saying there's a 90% satisfaction rate with this new system. I have 20+ trips to WDW and I am sad to say this trip probably ranked at the bottom of all my trips - between long SB lines and all the entertainment I enjoyed gone from Epcot.

 

[Luckybee]

I am just back from a trip from 11/15-11/19, with park days on Sunday, Monday and Tuesday. I was surprised(and not pleasantly) at how long the SB lines were for a supposedly 'slow' time. I had my FP+'s, but other than those short waits, we were waiting for almost every other attraction we wanted, when I have never had to wait before. I usually go at slower times and have probably been spoiled, but I think FP+ is making things worse, not better. I missed the spontaneity of my trip. I can't believe Disney is saying there's a 90% satisfaction rate with this new system. I have 20+ trips to WDW and I am sad to say this trip probably ranked at the bottom of all my trips - between long SB lines and all the entertainment I enjoyed gone from Epcot.

Thank you for saying in better terms than I had, exactly what we experienced end of Sept/early Oct.
We don't have quite as many trips as you have had but we're up there close.
This was our 2nd time trying Universal as well just for one day(our first was way back in the 90's). We found what Disney used to have at U. and if you haven't tried it you may wish to consider adding a day or so, you may be as pleasantly surprised as we were

And on Disney saying there is a 90% satisfaction rate ...LOL....when we were leaving Epcot one day they were doing a survey and one of the questions was about fp+. I started laughing when the cm gave me the alternatives which were very similar to the phone adr questions. In other words there was no alternative that allowed one to say "this isn't working for me". I think the closest was something like "it's wonderful but I'd like to see x added ". Which is what I ended up saying. Because there was no way for me to say what I actually thought. I asked him if there was a place for comments. There wasn't. Yep....that's an accurate satisfaction % alright