Domestic park attendance down 4% in Q3

[LAS2AMS]

I know we don't have official numbers from Disney which I why it's hard say anything with extreme confidence.

I just really find it hard to believe that FP would increase efficiency at omnimover type attractions. I truly believe it doesn't. Look at haunted mansion for example. With FP wait times increased. Same with Pirates. Those attractions should be continually loading they should stop the standby line to let FP in then switch back. Newer rides built for FP are different but it is my belief that rides built Pre FP shouldn't have it because they were built with that in mind.

FP has created efficiencies, not necessarily in the manner you're thinking.

In a given summer day, I might spend 10 hours at the parks. 20 years ago, if I wanted to ride three of the most popular attractions, it'd eat 4-5 hours of my time (or 40%-50% of my day). Obviously with FP, that number is much smaller.

It'd be one thing if it caused a spill over onto all other attractions... but it hasn't. That's partially do to Disney adding attractions & entertainment (re: capacity) and increases in technology (FP, real-time waits on the app -- as opposed to numbers that were completely incorrect, etc.) that help us more efficiently plan our day.

AK does have a good amount of entertainment though. You have rides, then you have shows, walk through animal treks, and more. The general guest just wants rides. Theme parks are not just about rides they have a bit of everything. Just because a park doesn't have a lot of rides doesn't mean it has a capacity problem. Rides, shows, restaurants and more all work together for capacity. You are simply just looking at ride capacity.

No, I was referring the AK when it initially opened. There was very little to do and Disney knew that, creating the band-aid that was Camp Mickey Minnie (not that it helped much). In order to prop attendance, WDW gave complimentary AK admission to many of its convention guests (as opposed to the after 4/5PM Epcot & Studios tickets that still cost 2/3 of the admission price).

And I would consider "capacity" to be anything that draws the attention of the guests.

 

[rteetz]

FP has created efficiencies, not necessarily in the manner you're thinking.

In a given summer day, I might spend 10 hours at the parks. 20 years ago, if I wanted to ride three of the most popular attractions, it'd eat 4-5 hours of my time (or 40%-50% of my day). Obviously with FP, that number is much smaller.

It'd be one thing if it caused a spill over onto all other attractions... but it hasn't. That's partially do to Disney adding attractions & entertainment (re: capacity) and increases in technology (FP, real-time waits on the app -- as opposed to numbers that were completely incorrect, etc.) that help us more efficiently plan our day.



No, I was referring the AK when it initially opened. There was very little to do and Disney knew that, creating the band-aid that was Camp Mickey Minnie (not that it helped much). In order to prop attendance, WDW gave complimentary AK admission to many of its convention guests (as opposed to the after 4/5PM Epcot & Studios tickets that still cost 2/3 of the admission price).

And I would consider "capacity" to be anything that draws the attention of the guests.

What you consider capacity is not capacity though. You are thinking popularity. Capacity is how much a park or ride can hold at a given time. The parks currently do not have a capacity problem. I might agree with you that some of the parks do not have enough popular attractions to spread guests out though.

 

[jtwibih]

If there was a capacity problem, wouldn't we see more phased closures? The only times we see those are doing holidays.

 

[rteetz]

If there was a capacity problem, wouldn't we see more phased closures? The only times we see those are doing holidays.

Exactly, and even at the holidays we don't see a huge amount of phased closings.

 

[LSLS]

We'll just have to agree to disagree or something because I'm still confused.

I think Jade was always trying to reference ride capacities but you were reading it as park capacity (at least that is what I'm assuming is the issue there).

 

[TwoMisfits]

I think Jade was always trying to reference ride capacities but you were reading it as park capacity (at least that is what I'm assuming is the issue there).

Even then, it's not a ride capacity problem, it's a DESIRED/GOOD ride capacity problem. Too much dead weight, not enough draws...

 

[Alfredo68]

I found this interesting, regarding cutbacks. The article, written in February, even mentions potential cuts such as MSEP which we now all know has happened.
BREAKING: Shanghai Disney Puts Financial Strangle-Hold on Domestic Disney Parks

 

[rteetz]

I found this interesting, regarding cutbacks. The article, written in February, even mentions potential cuts such as MSEP which we now all know has happened.
BREAKING: Shanghai Disney Puts Financial Strangle-Hold on Domestic Disney Parks

Well not really. MSEP is just moving to a different park so it's still be used and paid for.

 

[Alfredo68]

Well not really. MSEP is just moving to a different park so it's still be used and paid for.

It is moving to DL for a short time, not permanently. A CM friend from Disney Animation in LA confirmed that.

 

[rteetz]

It is moving to DL for a short time, not permanently. A CM friend from Disney Animation in LA confirmed that.

Yes Disney stated that in the announcement. However short term to Disney can be years. Either way MSEP isn't just sitting in a warehouse not being used.

 

[Alfredo68]

Yes Disney stated that in the announcement. However short term to Disney can be years. Either way MSEP isn't just sitting in a warehouse not being used.

According to my CM friend, it is indeed short term. But I will figure you probably have other sources and know more about this than I do and leave it at that. I only posted the article because it was an interesting perspective which many other articles out there confirm.

 

[rteetz]

According to my CM friend, it is indeed short term. But I will figure you probably have other sources and know more about this than I do and leave it at that. I only posted the article because it was an interesting perspective which many other articles out there confirm.

I'm not trying to discredit you or your friend but things are always changing. They may say short term now but if people like it, it could stay longer. We just don't know how long short term actually means at this point.

 

[JenniferinFL]

I'm glad the park attendance is down. I think Disney is driving it down on purpose. When they rolled out the price increases last year, spouse and I were speculating that they were trying to drive down attendance.

They may not have been doing many phased closures, but, a Saturday afternoon in the magic kingdom in June is still a nightmare. It's a 20 minute wait to buy a water. We saw hour waits posted for IASW.

I hope attendance drops again. Disney gets more of my money when I don't have to wait 20 minutes to buy their overpriced water.

 

[Alfredo68]

I'm glad the park attendance is down. I think Disney is driving it down on purpose. When they rolled out the price increases last year, spouse and I were speculating that they were trying to drive down attendance.

They may not have been doing many phased closures, but, a Saturday afternoon in the magic kingdom in June is still a nightmare. It's a 20 minute wait to buy a water. We saw hour waits posted for IASW.

I hope attendance drops again. Disney gets more of my money when I don't have to wait 20 minutes to buy their overpriced water.

True, but keep in mind that the summer months you refer to are generally peak season with high attendance, so the wait times you speak of are not uncommon.

 

[Lee Matthews]

My 2 cents is that they wanted to get price increases in now and take the hit on park attendance because once we get to 2021 with Star Wars land opening on both coasts, there will be another price hike but people will happily pay it and the crowds will be insane again.

I'm going to WDW In January which will be my first visit in 6 and a half years, after that it will probably be for the 50th anniversary

 

[lockedoutlogic]

My 2 cents is that they wanted to get price increases in now and take the hit on park attendance because once we get to 2021 with Star Wars land opening on both coasts, there will be another price hike but people will happily pay it and the crowds will be insane again.

I'm going to WDW In January which will be my first visit in 6 and a half years, after that it will probably be for the 50th anniversary

100% agree...

Also remember how dumb we all were (me including) during the housing crash...
They JACKED all the prices up across the board...suffered some downturns...and baited the cliff with temporary promotions to lure the herd toward it...

That still works to a degree.

People should worry about what the base prices are..not the promo price for whatever trip they're planning...mass acceptance leads to unimpreded encouragement to the management.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

True, but keep in mind that the summer months you refer to are generally peak season with high attendance, so the wait times you speak of are not uncommon.

I like how repeated comments on here imply that there used to not be lines for rides in the summer...
Not true...they were MUCH worse.
Infact...in many cases summer is better than it ever has been.

The simple reality is that the attendance "uptick" is due to much larger (but still not peak Heavy) crowds in what use to be dead months...October, November, January, February...may and to a certain extent September.

They have done a good job at dispersal and have pushed the market to increase attendance and revenues.

But these price increase are just that: price increases. "Crowd control" is a hoax. Don't swallow that.

 

[Alfredo68]

I like how repeated comments on here imply that there used to not be lines for rides in the summer...
Not true...they were MUCH worse.
Infact...in many cases summer is better than it ever has been. The simple reality is that the attendance "uptick" is due to much larger (but still not peak Heavy) crowds in what use to be dead months...October, November, January, February...may and to a certain extent September. They have done a good job at dispersal and have pushed the market to increase attendance and revenues. But these price increase are just that: price increases. "Crowd control" is a hoax. Don't swallow that.

I think the days where you could go to WDW and get on most rides with no more than a 20 minute wait or less are long gone. It seems that Disney has managed to lure crowds all year long either during peak times or otherwise with events like MNSSHP and F&W. I have photos of being at WDW in the 80's and 90's taken from above in the Skyway and you could see Fantasyland nearly empty. I was actually awed looking back at those photos. I don't think that happens anymore. However, I do remember being there for the first time in 1980 and many times since and seeing massive lines curling back and forth up to the ride for Jungle Cruise, Big Thunder Mountain Railroad and Space Mountain, with waits of up to 2 hours. I can't thank FastPass enough! Now one would think that with the availability of other Disneys around the world the crowds at WDW would thin out a bit, but that does not seem to be the case.

Personally, I never go in the summer, not so much because of crowds (though that is among the reasons) but because I cannot stand the Florida summer heat. I lived there for 16 years and hated every minute of it. When I hear people complaining about how hot it was waiting in line in July I can't help but burst out laughing at the naïveté. And while I'd love to spend my birthday there, since it happens on March 9th in the midst of Spring Break, once was enough. Crowds were hellish. I'll spend my un-birthdays there instead....

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I think the days where you could go to WDW and get on most rides with no more than a 20 minute wait or less are long gone. It seems that Disney has managed to lure crowds all year long either during peak times or otherwise with events like MNSSHP and F&W. I have photos of being at WDW in the 80's and 90's taken from above in the Skyway and you could see Fantasyland nearly empty. I was actually awed looking back at those photos. I don't think that happens anymore. However, I do remember being there for the first time in 1980 and many times since and seeing massive lines curling back and forth up to the ride for Jungle Cruise, Big Thunder Mountain Railroad and Space Mountain, with waits of up to 2 hours. I can't thank FastPass enough! Now one would think that with the availability of other Disneys around the world the crowds at WDW would thin out a bit, but that does not seem to be the case.

Personally, I never go in the summer, not so much because of crowds (though that is among the reasons) but because I cannot stand the Florida summer heat. I lived there for 16 years and hated every minute of it. When I hear people complaining about how hot it was waiting in line in July I can't help but burst out laughing at the naïveté. And while I'd love to spend my birthday there, since it happens on March 9th in the midst of Spring Break, once was enough. Crowds were hellish. I'll spend my un-birthdays there instead....

I don't necessarily disagree...I have some of the same pictures...in the offseason.
Remember: they have added basically net zero in the last ten years...you have to have rides to gobble crowds and that number is break even or a negligible increase...

The influx is because more people travel, more easily, more times of the year.

I was inline for pirates in 1992 for 1 hour and 50 minutes (opened 1973)

And in line for splash mountain Wm2 hours and 25 minutes in 1998 (opened 92/93)

At the end of June - im exactly when you are describing.

 

[Alfredo68]

I don't necessarily disagree...I have some of the same pictures...in the offseason.
Remember: they have added basically net zero in the last ten years...you have to have rides to gobble crowds and that number is break even or a negligible increase...

The influx is because more people travel, more easily, more times of the year.

I was inline for pirates in 1992 for 1 hour and 50 minutes (opened 1973)

And in line for splash mountain Wm2 hours and 25 minutes in 1998 (opened 92/93)

At the end of June - im exactly when you are describing.

Pirates! Yes! Oh, do I remember the lines there, starting all the way outside and descending sloooowlyyyy into the boat loading dock. There was more than enough time to look at every single square inch of detail...every stone, moss, dungeon.... But I also remember zipping right through at low times. Living in Tampa, one could do Disney for a day, anytime. So I have been there during high season, low season, mid season, you name it. I even remember going on Space Mountain later in the evening with my siblings and cousins, coming out of the ride and going right back in, five times in a row, because there were NO lines. Oh boy, memories...... I doubt that really happens anymore at ANY time. But here is hoping October is not going to be too horrible. I am also going one night to the MNSSHP and while everyone is waiting in endless lines for meet and greets and candy, I can go on rides (since I don't need to meet any characters and I don't really do candy). I want to take in the park decked in Halloween lights as I am sure it is a sight to behold. What still amazes me is that after 36 years, I still love the Magic Kingdom as much now as I did then. EPCOT comes second. I went my first time in 1982, shortly after it opened (I remember some rides still were not open). But I never took to EPCOT as I have MK, and certainly none of the other parks come close for me. I went to Universal, Disney Hollywood Studios (when it was Disney/MGM) and a few other parks and once was enough. I just keep coming back to the MK. This coming October, I will spend most of my time at the MK and one day at EPCOT (with an extra evening there for dinner, after they close the MK for MNSSHP). I am sure there will be crowds, but I am hoping nothing like Spring Break or summer crowds.