Dolphin Resort assault?

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

There are also instances where men's mere existence puts them in the position where they are accused of trying to commit a crime. Men always have to be wary of these situations.

Whew..

Wow. So much misandry.

A man learns early on to not make himself 'an easy mark' to be beaten up or robbed. That is a REAL concern for men.

And men are sexually assaulted all the time but cannot do anything about it as society doesn't care. I have been to bars and nightclubs where women strangers have come up to me out of nowhere and slapped or squeezed my butt, grabbed my crotch, or ran their fingers across my chest. Afterwards they would give a flirty look and laugh and walk away. I can't 'report' this to anyone. Nothing would happen. It would be 'my fault' for not liking it. If the opposite thing happened and I touched a woman, I'd be kicked out of the bar and the police might be called.

Whataboutism at its finest.

I'm really big on that it's not only women who are able to be assaulted. There is however a line of thinking in which you've exemplified quite well. It just speaks for itself, no further comments needed by me to do that.

 

[J-Dog]

The only person that is ever to blame for a crime is the person who comitted it. They did something wrong and it doesn't matter the circumstances. If I left my keys in the car, do I deserve to have my car stolen? No - in fact I shouldn't even have to lock my car at all in a theoretical moralistic society. Without the criminal there would be no issue.

That said, of course "safety tips" aren't a bad thing either and they can help protect us since we don't live in that fantastical society, however after someone is assaulted is not the time to lecture them on what they could have done differently. It's just not helpful at that point.

I'm not going to comment either way, but I will just say that merely posting this story on a DISCUSSION forum opened it up to possible victim blaming. It is bound to be DISCUSSED, and any possible victim-blaming is certainly one perspective of discussion. That's how the internet works.

Did people expect that this thread would have 50 posts saying "OMG! That's awful!" in every single one?

 

[Where’s the beef]

I'm not going to comment either way, but I will just say that merely posting this story on a DISCUSSION forum opened it up to possible victim blaming. It is bound to be DISCUSSED, and any possible victim-blaming is certainly one perspective of discussion. That's how the internet works.

Did people expect that this thread would have 50 posts saying "OMG! That's awful!" in every single one?

Yes. I would expect that. It is still shocking and unexpected that in 2022 “people” are ok saying IN PUBLIC that women are to blame for whatever happens to them. It is why so many people don’t come forward and suffer a lifetime of guilt because they “were asking for it, after all.”

It is shocking that someone equates falling asleep in the road to being raped. I never expected to read something like that let alone on a Disney board.

Women are allowed to wear what they want, drink as much or as little as they want, and walk outside after 8 pm. Doing these things isn’t an automatic invitation to get assaulted and it’s mind blowing that people still think that and, again, are willing to actually say it out loud.

 

[J-Dog]

Yes. I would expect that. It is still shocking and unexpected that in 2022 “people” are ok saying IN PUBLIC that women are to blame for whatever happens to them. It is why so many people don’t come forward and suffer a lifetime of guilt because they “were asking for it, after all.”

It is shocking that someone equates falling asleep in the road to being raped. I never expected to read something like that let alone on a Disney board.

Women are allowed to wear what they want, drink as much or as little as they want, and walk outside after 8 pm. Doing these things isn’t an automatic invitation to get assaulted and it’s mind blowing that people still think that and, again, are willing to actually say it out loud.

I completely agree with you.

My point is that getting mad and flaming someone on the internet MIGHT make that poster not post again, but is almost certainly not going to change that poster's opinion, so why get all worked-up about it?

Is it better to discuss this from all angles, or is it better that the people who want to discuss the victim's choices just shut-up, so the rest of us can pretend nobody feels that way? So we can pretend the internet is all rainbows and unicorns?

It's a question that has been pondered since the day Al Gore invented the internet, I guess...

 

[bbeagle]

Did people expect that this thread would have 50 posts saying "OMG! That's awful!" in every single one?

Those posts don't solve anything.

Yes. I would expect that. It is still shocking and unexpected that in 2022 “people” are ok saying IN PUBLIC that women are to blame for whatever happens to them. It is why so many people don’t come forward and suffer a lifetime of guilt because they “were asking for it, after all.”

It is shocking that someone equates falling asleep in the road to being raped. I never expected to read something like that let alone on a Disney board.

Women are allowed to wear what they want, drink as much or as little as they want, and walk outside after 8 pm. Doing these things isn’t an automatic invitation to get assaulted and it’s mind blowing that people still think that and, again, are willing to actually say it out loud.

I NEVER equated falling asleep in the road to being raped. It seems you are intentionally misreading what I wrote to satisfy your own world view.

I NEVER said 'women are asking for it' or anything close.

I NEVER said women aren't allowed to wear what they want, drink as much or little as they want or to walk outside at night.

I NEVER said it was an automatic invitation to get assaulted if women did that.

Your misandry is causing you to hear things I did not say.

For some reason, if I say there are risky situations - and women AND MEN need to be careful not to put themselves in those situations - it's not okay to even SAY that?

We all have to act like we live in a CareBear Fantasy Land? And be shocked every time someone gets robbed/attacked/raped? And not be allowed to discuss why? We are only allowed to say that there are lots of bad men out there, and leave it at that?

 

[starlite_]

Wow. So much misandry.

A man learns early on to not make himself 'an easy mark' to be beaten up or robbed. That is a REAL concern for men.

And men are sexually assaulted all the time but cannot do anything about it as society doesn't care. I have been to bars and nightclubs where women strangers have come up to me out of nowhere and slapped or squeezed my butt, grabbed my crotch, or ran their fingers across my chest. Afterwards they would give a flirty look and laugh and walk away. I can't 'report' this to anyone. Nothing would happen. It would be 'my fault' for not liking it. If the opposite thing happened and I touched a woman, I'd be kicked out of the bar and the police might be called.

You are perpetuating what you seem to hate right now. Everything that you said applies to men as well. Of course men don't deserve to be sexually assaulted either, but in all your posts you are blaming the victim (a woman) EXCEPT in this example. When the victim in your examples is a man then you can perfectly understand that they did nothing wrong but be in public. Now apply that to women. A woman walking outside is not an invitation to rape her, exactly the same as a man hanging out in a bar is not an invitation for assault.

It doesn't matter what gender the victim is. Existing in public is not an invitation for any type of sexual assault. If you cannot see that you need to do some deep thinking cause the victim blaming is showing only when you talk about women.

 

[starlite_]

Those posts don't solve anything.

I NEVER equated falling asleep in the road to being raped. It seems you are intentionally misreading what I wrote to satisfy your own world view.

I NEVER said 'women are asking for it' or anything close.

I NEVER said women aren't allowed to wear what they want, drink as much or little as they want or to walk outside at night.

I NEVER said it was an automatic invitation to get assaulted if women did that.

Your misandry is causing you to hear things I did not say.

For some reason, if I say there are risky situations - and women AND MEN need to be careful not to put themselves in those situations - it's not okay to even SAY that?

We all have to act like we live in a CareBear Fantasy Land? And be shocked every time someone gets robbed/attacked/raped? And not be allowed to discuss why? We are only allowed to say that there are lots of bad men out there, and leave it at that?

You did say that tho.

"We are only allowed to say that there are lots of bad men out there, and leave it at that?" Literally no one said that, we said don't VICTIM BLAME. That you are equating victim with women (And rapist with men at the same time) is exactly your problem.

 

[IndyToThere]

Christ almighty, can we just lock this thread?

 

[Where’s the beef]

Those posts don't solve anything.

I NEVER equated falling asleep in the road to being raped. It seems you are intentionally misreading what I wrote to satisfy your own world view.

I NEVER said 'women are asking for it' or anything close.

I NEVER said women aren't allowed to wear what they want, drink as much or little as they want or to walk outside at night.

I NEVER said it was an automatic invitation to get assaulted if women did that.

Your misandry is causing you to hear things I did not say.

For some reason, if I say there are risky situations - and women AND MEN need to be careful not to put themselves in those situations - it's not okay to even SAY that?

We all have to act like we live in a CareBear Fantasy Land? And be shocked every time someone gets robbed/attacked/raped? And not be allowed to discuss why? We are only allowed to say that there are lots of bad men out there, and leave it at that?

Yes, I’m allowed to be shocked any time someone is raped because the answer to your “why” is “because another person intentionally sought to assault someone they felt they could overpower, to fulfill their own ‘needs’.” That’s shocking NO MATTER THE SITUATION. If you are able to come up with even one reason that a rape isn’t a shocking event, then that’s a problem.

There are no “two sides” to this.

 

[Where’s the beef]

Christ almighty, can we just lock this thread?

I mean, yeah. But it’s good to know that even at Disney you’re going to be judged for being assaulted. It’s a nice reminder.

 

[bbeagle]

Yes, I’m allowed to be shocked any time someone is raped because the answer to your “why” is “because another person intentionally sought to assault someone they felt they could overpower, to fulfill their own ‘needs’.” That’s shocking NO MATTER THE SITUATION. If you are able to come up with even one reason that a rape isn’t a shocking event, then that’s a problem.

There are no “two sides” to this.

You are blatantly and intentionally mis-stating what I have said.

Where did I say nobody is allowed to be shocked anytime someone is raped? I NEVER said that and I DO NOT FEEL THAT WAY. I just said responding to a post with a 'OMG! I'm shocked' solves nothing. I did not say in any way that you couldn't have those feelings or post that. Why you would interpret me saying 'Those posts don't solve anything' as anything else is beyond me. It shows you read into things that aren't there.

I've NEVER said that there are 'two sides' to this. This is blatantly lying about what I said. The criminal/attacker is WRONG. It is 100% wrong for them to do it. But it still happens.

Why can there be no discussion? It is risky behavior for either a man or a woman to go outside late at night alone. Why is that so controversial? I wish it wasn't true, but it is.

 

[bbeagle]

I mean, yeah. But it’s good to know that even at Disney you’re going to be judged for being assaulted. It’s a nice reminder.

If you go out swimming in Bay Lake at night and are assaulted by an alligator, am I allowed to judge the behavior as risky? Or I can only say 'Poor person. That's a sad situation. I can't believe people can't go for a little swim without being assaulted. Even in Disney. What has this world come to?'

Say there were people outside my hotel room doing a drug deal, and I heard them before opening my door. Is that a proper time to leave my hotel room? Or should I wait until they're gone? Should I be allowed to leave my hotel room at any time I want? Yes. But doing so at that particular time is risky. And for you to not understand that is bizarre.

After dark, there is a bachelorette party going on outside at the pool. 25 girls all drinking, laughing, telling raunchy jokes. As a man, when I was in my 20s, would it be okay to expect to be able to go alone, mind my own business, go into that pool and take an evening dip for a few minutes without being sexually harassed or assaulted? Of course not. I would not put myself into that situation. They shouldn't harass or assault me, but they most definitely would!

 

[EilonwyWanderer]

There are also instances where men's mere existence puts them in the position where they are accused of trying to commit a crime. Men always have to be wary of these situations.

Man, I wish all women ever had to worry about was possibly being accused of a crime instead of possibly being blamed for being the victim of one. Imagine if all we had to worry about was imaginary situations that would never happen.

 

[bbeagle]

Man, I wish all women ever had to worry about was possibly being accused of a crime instead of possibly being blamed for being the victim of one. Imagine if all we had to worry about was imaginary situations that would never happen.

My uncle was a great teacher. Everyone loved him. He lost his job as a professor at a college university. One afternoon, he stayed late at class to tutor a student. When she later got a bad grade, she lied and said he raped her. He was immediately sent home and had to go through 3 months of rumors, news articles, scared that he might go to jail. Everyone trying to ruin his life. He got lucky - the girl finally admitted she made it up. He was offered his job back. He refused because of how badly they treated him for those 3 months. He got another teaching job somewhere else.

If she never admitted to lying, he might be in jail. This is something guys go through every single day. If I'm driving alone, and see a girl with car troubles along the side of the road - hell, no. I'm not stopping to help her. All she has to do is lie, and I'm in big trouble.

 

[EilonwyWanderer]

Cool story bro.

 

[bbeagle]

Cool story bro.

True story. But there's the judging and misandry.

 

[Moliphino]

My uncle was a great teacher. Everyone loved him. He lost his job as a professor at a college university. One afternoon, he stayed late at class to tutor a student. When she later got a bad grade, she lied and said he raped her. He was immediately sent home and had to go through 3 months of rumors, news articles, scared that he might go to jail. Everyone trying to ruin his life. He got lucky - the girl finally admitted she made it up. He was offered his job back. He refused because of how badly they treated him for those 3 months. He got another teaching job somewhere else.

If she never admitted to lying, he might be in jail. This is something guys go through every single day. If I'm driving alone, and see a girl with car troubles along the side of the road - hell, no. I'm not stopping to help her. All she has to do is lie, and I'm in big trouble.

You know what happens way more often? Actual assaults that go unpunished.

 

[bbeagle]

You know what happens way more often? Actual assaults that go unpunished.

You know what happens way more often? Men scared of getting into situations where someone might lie. Happens practically every day.

I've been a sports referee for 30 years. We can't go alone anywhere anymore. We have to constantly watch that we don't put ourselves in situations where we could be accused of anything. We've learned after dozens of officials over the years got accused of things they never did.

We used to be able to go into a locker room alone to get captains numbers, talk with coaches. Nope. We need to make sure 2 of us go. And if one is a female official, we need to make sure it's 3. I can't break up a fight or heavens! I might be accused of inappropriately touch someone. We are racist cheaters if all of us are white. Always need at least 1 black official on our crew if officiating a team with mostly black players. Officiating a women's game? I'd like to give her a pointer to improve her game - I can't talk to a woman 1 on 1 or I'm accused of saying something inappropriate or man-splaining. Needs to be at least 2 of us.

But, my concerns are unfounded, I guess. I'll go and shut up as men don't have problems.

 

[EilonwyWanderer]

When I was 15 a ref at a high school soccer game tried to pull me into his car after following me from the field and I was saved by a woman who was waiting for the train at the stop I was running towards. One of the questions the cops asked me was what I was wearing.

We've all got stories. None of that undermines the fact that rape culture is real and you're real embedded in it.

 

[Moliphino]

You know what happens way more often? Men scared of getting into situations where someone might lie. Happens practically every day.

I've been a sports referee for 30 years. We can't go alone anywhere anymore. We have to constantly watch that we don't put ourselves in situations where we could be accused of anything. We've learned after dozens of officials over the years got accused of things they never did.

We used to be able to go into a locker room alone to get captains numbers, talk with coaches. Nope. We need to make sure 2 of us go. And if one is a female official, we need to make sure it's 3. I can't break up a fight or heavens! I might be accused of inappropriately touch someone. We are racist cheaters if all of us are white. Always need at least 1 black official on our crew if officiating a team with mostly black players. Officiating a women's game? I'd like to give her a pointer to improve her game - I can't talk to a woman 1 on 1 or I'm accused of saying something inappropriate or man-splaining. Needs to be at least 2 of us.

But, my concerns are unfounded, I guess. I'll go and shut up as men don't have problems.

Women do that ALL THE TIME to avoid actually being assaulted. Pardon me if I don't feel bad about men being afraid of accusations.

Anyway, arguing with someone who likes to cry misandry is a pointless endeavor, so I'm not sure why I'm bothering.