Dogs in the Park

[ms mouse]

We just got from a wonderful week, crowds worse than in years past, but we made the best of it and enjoyed ourselves. One observation, we saw more dogs in the park than I have ever seen before. Not seeing eye dogs, but small cute dogs that had owners with no obvious disability. Anyone know how these are allowed, and why?

 

[Micca]

Some folks folks with no obvious disability have service animals. Maybe that's what you noticed? Hard to imagine they'd be allowed into the parks under other circumstances.

 

[robinb]

We just got from a wonderful week, crowds worse than in years past, but we made the best of it and enjoyed ourselves. One observation, we saw more dogs in the park than I have ever seen before. Not seeing eye dogs, but small cute dogs that had owners with no obvious disability. Anyone know how these are allowed, and why?

You can't always tell if someone has a disability by just looking at them. On the same vein, neither can you tell if a dog is a Service Dog by just looking at them. Even "small cute" dogs can be service dogs.

 

[Ashanna1979]

There are lots of different disabilities that aren't obvious or visible (e.g., seizure disorders or autism) that may be aided by a service dog.

 

[Geoff_M]

I understand what the OP is talking about. We're here now and have seen the same thing. Perhaps I'm not up to speed on the world of service dogs, but for example one of the dogs I saw appeared to be a basset hound. It didn't have a special vest on or other markings indicating that it was a service animal and was on a regular leash. It looked for all the world to be just a woman taking her dog out for a walk. I understand that service animals can be used for a number of things, but part of me wondered if law prevented Disney from asking for evidence that a dog is a service animal and thus there was a loophole that effectively allowed people to bring in their dogs by simply claiming them to be a "service animal".

 

[TDC Nala]

Dogs are not permitted in the parks unless they are considered service animals, so unless people are sneaking them in, you're seeing service animals of some sort. I do not know whether or not guests are asked to show some sort of certification for their animals.

 

[Feralpeg]

I understand what the OP is talking about. We're here now and have seen the same thing. Perhaps I'm not up to speed on the world of service dogs, but for example one of the dogs I saw appeared to be a basset hound. It didn't have a special vest on or other markings indicating that it was a service animal and was on a regular leash. It looked for all the world to be just a woman taking her dog out for a walk. I understand that service animals can be used for a number of things, but part of me wondered if law prevented Disney from asking for evidence that a dog is a service animal and thus there was a loophole that effectively allowed people to bring in their dogs by simply claiming them to be a "service animal".

There was a British family at WDW at this same time last year. The had a basset hound service dog. It was for their little girl who was hearing impaired. I especially noticed it because, during the Christmas parade taping, the dog was wearing reindeer ears. The reindeer in the parade went over to visit the dog. So, it could have been the same dog.

 

[NeverBeen2DW]

I saw a woman in a wheel chair with cerebral palsy with a sheltie in a jogging stroller. I ask her is her dog was a service dog and she said not it was a companion dog and she had only adopted it from a shelter 3 weeks ago. Just a FYI companion dogs can be service dogs as well. But with only 3 weeks ownership being adopted right from animal control it does not have certification. She said the dog just started under going training. So obviously there are loop wholes. Also if you see a service dog you should never assume you can just walk up and pet it. The dog is there doing a "job" always ask the owner. This dog everybody was walking up and petting with out asking. I had my son ask her and he asked her all sorts of questions about her dog. Serivce dogs are suppose to wear vest in public settings.

 

[iteach7th]

I was down in October (Columbus Day week) and as we sat in Main Street Bakery eating breakfast, I saw a woman holding a dog in her lap. I am not good with dog breeds but it appeared to be a Yorkie (neighbor has one and I remember thinking it looked just like her dog). I was amazed and wondered how she got the dog in. She looked to be 40 - 50 and was in a rental wheelchair. The dog was sitting in her lap right up at the table where she was eating (and sharing her food with the dog).

 

[Nicole&Becker]

Is "Dogs in the Park" a special event? What time of year does this happen? Is it the same time of year every year? I will be coming to WDW with my new SD partner next year, the end of november to the beginning of december.

As for what you are asking... I know many people with small service dogs. These dogs can be used for a variety of different disabilities. I am sure that if they were allowed in the park, they are legit. `

 

[DisneyLover83]

I was wondering the same thing, on two different days last week (once in MK and once in DHS) we saw Chihuahua's, one in someone's bag and another sitting on a mans lap on a bench. No vest on either, seemed strange to me but I guess maybe they were some kind of service dogs.

 

[Geoff_M]

I am sure that if they were allowed in the park, they are legit.

I'm not saying that the dogs mentioned here aren't "legit", but knowing that the law prohibits Disney from asking for any proof that a person has a disability when they ask for assistance, I also wonder if Disney is likewise prevented from asking for "proof" or "certification" when someone appears at the gate with a dog claimed to be a "service animal".

 

[bunkkinsmom]

Alright, I am ready for the flames......... But I cannot be silent..............

As the manager of a Starbucks, here is what we are allowed to say when someone walks into our store with a dog:

"Is your dog a service animal?"

Responses:

A. Customer: "Yes"
Barista: "Oh Great! What can I start you to drink today?"

B. Customer: "No"
Barista: "I'm sorry, but you cannot have your dog in the store."

That's about the time when one of two things happens. Either the customer huffs and walks out of the store to put their dog back in the car, or they say "I know, lemme just get a **insert favorite Starbucks drink here**.

And then we say that we would be happy to get their drink as soon as they take their dog outside.

Let me just break this down. Here is how I feel, and I am sure to get some pushback, but it's honest: I get offended by people bringing their small dogs around with them and expect it to be ok because they are small. Drives me nuts. Yes I know that service dogs aren't all Golden Retrievers. Yes I know that there are seizure dogs and autism dogs and for that matter even mental health dogs. IMHO, they need to have ID when in public, the vest as well as some sort of license that can be presented when asked for.

Now I will tell you that I love dogs. I have a dog, a rescue for that matter. He loves my kids and they love him. I can take him to Lowes Home Improvement, or the Bark Park, or a couple of other places that allow pets. But not Starbucks, or McDonalds, or my favorite restaurant. He's a dog. Yes he's part of the family, the part that stays at home. From my personal experience, most of the people that I have encountered that have attitude about their dogs are small dog owners who think that because they are carrying their dog it's ok. Or rolling them in a stroller, or carrying them in a bag. It's not ok, and I won't serve you with your dog. It's not that your dog isn't cute, but there is an overwhelming air of.......... what's the word.......... entitlement with almost everyone of the people that I have had to ask to leave the store. And evidently I am the devil because I don't want the Health Inspector to walk in while you are ordering a drink with your terrier.

Having said that, I would hope that Disney has to validate service animals on some level before entering the park. Cuz the day I step in poop on Main Street there will be an issue, I promise.

AHHHH, that feels better.

 

[iteach7th]

Alright, I am ready for the flames......... But I cannot be silent..............

No flames here -

While I know some dogs are cleaner than a few humans I encountered while at the World - service dog or not - I wondered about the health inspector issues after I saw the dog in the woman's lap while she was eating at Main Street Bakery.

 

[goofyernmost]

I'm not saying that the dogs mentioned here aren't "legit", but knowing that the law prohibits Disney from asking for any proof that a person has a disability when they ask for assistance, I also wonder if Disney is likewise prevented from asking for "proof" or "certification" when someone appears at the gate with a dog claimed to be a "service animal".

It's all a matter of knowing the system. The disability act prohibits anyone from asking what ones disability is or, as far as that goes, even if they have one. If you know the system you know the correct answer to the only two questions that are legal to ask.

Those questions can be worded differently to have a chance of a more truthful answer but are limited none the less.

We ask...Is your dog a pet? If the answer is yes...not allowed.

If the answer is no it's a service animal...then we can ask the second question...What service does it provide?

Many times we will get the response that it is a companion animal. Wrong answer. Companion dogs are actually the same as "pets", mental health or not, and are not covered under the law. If they know the system there are a multitude of answers that will stop the conversation dead and there is nothing anyone can do to protect the rest of the public from untrained animals.

The reason that dogs are not allowed, unless properly trained, is because they are unpredictable. Many a small child has been bitten and harmed by an animal that is naturally protective of it's owner and shedding animals in a public food area is obviously not a good thing.

I have often wondered when the general public backlash will begin. I understand needs and I wouldn't want to deprive a needed service to anyone, but a simple ID system would end any embarrassment to the individual and control the abuses of the system. That requirement does not exist so the rights of a few supersede the rights of the many. If you have allergies, even life threatening ones, or phobias involving animals you have no rights whatsoever. I've even seen people passing off boa constrictors as service animals because they knew the right answers. It wouldn't matter to me because I would be miles away anyway. As a past public transit bus driver, I made it clear that if that situation happened to me they would have to fire me because I would clear the bus and the person would have had to drive themselves. My rights have consequences but I have them none the less.

 

[Nicole&Becker]

No flames here -

While I know some dogs are cleaner than a few humans I encountered while at the World - service dog or not - I wondered about the health inspector issues after I saw the dog in the woman's lap while she was eating at Main Street Bakery.

As a service dog user who has an invisible disability, I encourage all of you to be a little more open minded. Like I said before, there are many different kinds of disabilities to which service dogs help with and they come in all shapes, sizes, and breeds. I know at LEAST 10 people who use small breed dogs for their service dog. There are Bichons, Chihuahuas, Malti-poos, Min-Pins, Yorkies, the list goes on of dogs I know that are used as service dogs in one facet or another. I also know of a very specific Italian Greyhound who does his work by sitting on the lap of his handler. He needs to be close to her so he can effectively alert his handler to her condition. That's his job. So in a restaurant or not he needs to be close to her to do his job.

Now as service dog handlers, we all keep our dogs in very tip-top condition so it is quite possible that a service dog could be cleaner than a child. Children are allowed without any problems, right? I happen to have two children as well, but have high standards for them as well, but kids are usually harder to control than dogs are.

There are very clear circumstances where a service dog can be asked to leave and can even call the police to assist if needed. If the dog is unclean, barks more than once (once could be an alert), causes a disturbance, or anything of that nature. So if you feel that a dog is actually causing a disturbance, tell management. But don't talk nasty about it behind people's backs. Do something about it. Otherwise, ignore that there is a dog there and try to be polite.

It is not required by law for a service dog to be identified by a vest or anything else. As long as the dog is behaving appropriately there is nothing that a business can ask for as proof other than verbal assurance that the dog is a service dog, the dog helps with your disability, and they can ask what specific things the dog does for your disability, but they cannot ask what your disability is, for ID cards, or certification. So just because you do not see something on the dog does not mean the dog is a pet dog. It is possible that because of the heat there, the handler chose not to vest the dog that day.

Hope that helps you all.

 

[ma2jr]

My guess.. therapy dogs.

 

[meowmarie]

As a service dog user who has an invisible disability, I encourage all of you to be a little more open minded. Like I said before, there are many different kinds of disabilities to which service dogs help with and they come in all shapes, sizes, and breeds. I know at LEAST 10 people who use small breed dogs for their service dog. There are Bichons, Chihuahuas, Malti-poos, Min-Pins, Yorkies, the list goes on of dogs I know that are used as service dogs in one facet or another. I also know of a very specific Italian Greyhound who does his work by sitting on the lap of his handler. He needs to be close to her so he can effectively alert his handler to her condition. That's his job. So in a restaurant or not he needs to be close to her to do his job.

I totally understand what you're saying, my only question is, can the dog do its job if it's being carried in a "purse?" It's a serious question, I've seen dogs that the owners said were service dogs being carried under the arm in a bag and have wondered if it could do its job in there. And I don't mean just being transported from place to place and then let out, but literally like going to a place like Disney and staying in the bag for hours.

On a side note, I once witnessed a chihuahua jump out of an owners bag at a Joann's fabrics and attack an actual service dog, a labrador. It did some damage and put a lot of stress and anxiety on the disabled person to boot. And the owner of the chihuahua was shocked and was going on about how he'd never acted that way before. People should really leave their non-service dogs at home when they go places dogs aren't allowed. There is a reason they aren't allowed. Service animals are trained not to be distracted easily and are more predictable than regular pets. I can't imagine how bad I would feel if I snuck a dog in to WDW and it ended up hurting a child or another animal.

 

[Nicole&Becker]

"I totally understand what you're saying, my only question is, can the dog do its job if it's being carried in a "purse?" It's a serious question, I've seen dogs that the owners said were service dogs being carried under the arm in a bag and have wondered if it could do its job in there. And I don't mean just being transported from place to place and then let out, but literally like going to a place like Disney and staying in the bag for hours."

To answer your question, Yes! I know of several service dogs who work from a bag. There are several reasons people do this, and not the reasons you would think. The dog could be trained to alert to a heart condition and needs to be close to the persons body, trained to alert to a scent change on the persons breath indication blood sugar changes or mood changes, and I am sure there are many other scenerios that I am not thinking of. Also these small dogs can get easily trampled in a place like WDW. I know that celebrities and such have ruined the rep of these small dogs, but not all small dogs that are in a bag are pampered pets. These alerting dogs make it possible for people to stay safe and be able to enjoy the world like a normal person can.

It is a great shame what happened with the small dog you saw and the service dog. It is quite likely that lady was either badly misinformed, a faker, or unaware some how that she is not legally able to bring her dog out with her everywhere. They is a growing trend of people faking service dogs, but that does not mean that all dogs are fakers. It is still a very small portion of dogs that are fakers. Usually in the service dog community it is better to assume the dog is having a bad day, needs more training, or is having a health problem that may have until that time gone undetected. Often times an illness in dogs goes undetected until a behavior issue comes to surface. Dogs are still dogs even when they are service dogs and are not robots. Dogs can still have bad days just like the rest of us. It is a tragic thing that happened, but any really good service dog should also be able to recover from the odd attack because it can happen anywhere. It is dangerous to be a service dog in many ways including by people not paying attention to where they are walking.

I hope that helps you understand.

 

[Bill and Jen]

It is not required by law for a service dog to be identified by a vest or anything else. As long as the dog is behaving appropriately there is nothing that a business can ask for as proof other than verbal assurance that the dog is a service dog, the dog helps with your disability, and they can ask what specific things the dog does for your disability, but they cannot ask what your disability is, for ID cards, or certification. So just because you do not see something on the dog does not mean the dog is a pet dog. It is possible that because of the heat there, the handler chose not to vest the dog that day.

I have a huge problem with this. While I fault no person for needing a service animal, They should HAVE to have them easily identifiable in a "uniform". Any owner of a service dog will point out that they are not pets but working, why then should they not have to wear their uniform in public?

Further they should be required to have ID proving they are a service dog. It is crazy to think you can walk around anywhere with a dog and just know the right answers and no one can ask for proof. Why should it be infringing to require ID, hell the ID need not even say what service the animal performs, just state issued proof.

This would not only stop the danger of having untrained dogs in places they don't belong, but also stop others from whispering behind backs as you put it.

As always in this country we take a great concept like not infringing the rights and privacy of a disabled person and warp it and twist it until everyone else loses their rights...

/Vent off