does my 4 year old need a carseat?

[crisi]

My question is why would you do anything that isn't the absolute safest for your child even if the law is more lax?

All the time. My kids ride bikes, although it isn't safe. They roller skate, although it isn't safe. They both have bunkbeds - not safe. At sixteen they will start driving cars, which isn't safe. They do all sorts of kid things. Its measured risk, you can't protect them completely - no one can. From there it is how much risk are you willing to take? To me, the difference between having an older child in a car with a seat belt adjuster or a lap belt, and the same child in a booster seat is a negligble risk - and one I'm willing to take.

 

[beattyfamily]

All the time. My kids ride bikes, although it isn't safe. They roller skate, although it isn't safe. They both have bunkbeds - not safe. At sixteen they will start driving cars, which isn't safe. They do all sorts of kid things. Its measured risk, you can't protect them completely - no one can. From there it is how much risk are you willing to take? To me, the difference between having an older child in a car with a seat belt adjuster or a lap belt, and the same child in a booster seat is a negligble risk - and one I'm willing to take.

Well said!

 

[kidshop]

To me, the difference between having an older child in a car with a seat belt adjuster or a lap belt, and the same child in a booster seat is a negligble risk - and one I'm willing to take.

This is your opinion and not based on fact. Just to clarify, I am speaking of a child from 4-8 years of age (under 4'9") in a booster seat as opposed to the car's normal seatbelt. The seatbelt alone does not properly fit a person under 4'9" and will not provide protection in an accident. The shoulder belt cuts across their neck instead of shoulder. The leading cause of death in this age group is car accidents. The booster puts them in a postion where the sealtbelt can protect them in an accident. It's really very simple. Seat belt adjusters are not an acceptable substitute for a booster. The risk is not 'negligible' if you don't use a booster...well, I guess it is negligible if you aren't in an accident. If you are in an accident, it can be the difference between life and death. That's not a risk I would ever take when I can just put my kid in a booster. Simple, effective and smart!

 

[crisi]

This is your opinion and not based on fact. Just to clarify, I am speaking of a child from 4-8 years of age (under 4'9") in a booster seat as opposed to the car's normal seatbelt. The seatbelt alone does not properly fit a person under 4'9" and will not provide protection in an accident. The shoulder belt cuts across their neck instead of shoulder. The leading cause of death in this age group is car accidents. The booster puts them in a postion where the sealtbelt can protect them in an accident. It's really very simple. Seat belt adjusters are not an acceptable substitute for a booster. The risk is not 'negligible' if you don't use a booster...well, I guess it is negligible if you aren't in an accident. If you are in an accident, it can be the difference between life and death. That's not a risk I would ever take when I can just put my kid in a booster. Simple, effective and smart!

No, that is fact. A seatbelt DOES provide protection. A carseat provides MORE protection. The difference is (and this is my opinion) negliable. I do risk analysis and statistical analysis for a living. I do know of what I speak. Would you like to talk confidence intervals on this stuff. Cause I'll be happy to start pulling out p values if you provide a cite for your information.

 

[sunshinefinlay]

If you rent a 7 seater car from Dollar, they have a child seat built in - I think it is the Dodge Grand Caravan.

Last time we rented a car the guy at the desk just gave us the car seat for free after some sweet talking (but I gave him a good tip! )

 

[all4fun]

This is your opinion and not based on fact. Just to clarify, I am speaking of a child from 4-8 years of age (under 4'9") in a booster seat as opposed to the car's normal seatbelt. The seatbelt alone does not properly fit a person under 4'9" and will not provide protection in an accident. The shoulder belt cuts across their neck instead of shoulder. The leading cause of death in this age group is car accidents. The booster puts them in a postion where the sealtbelt can protect them in an accident. It's really very simple. Seat belt adjusters are not an acceptable substitute for a booster. The risk is not 'negligible' if you don't use a booster...well, I guess it is negligible if you aren't in an accident. If you are in an accident, it can be the difference between life and death. That's not a risk I would ever take when I can just put my kid in a booster. Simple, effective and smart!

Well said.

A lap belt can cause severe internal damage in an accident, especially for young children who should be in a car seat. As of 2006 all new cars will have 3-pt car seats in all seating positions. Why? Because it's not only safer but it will prevent these kinds of injuries. Here's a site that explains lap belt injuries:
http://www.cpsafety.org/articles/lapbelts.aspx

Also, booster seats protect against head injuries 4x more than just a seatbelt, and reduces the risk of injury in a car accident by 59% compared to just using a seatbelt.

http://depts.washington.edu/booster/why_booster_seats.html

 

[all4fun]

DD3 is just hitting 40 lbs and is very tall for her age. We still have her in a carseat, but I don't think it is all that safe due to her size. We live in NY. She will be 4 on Sept 30th, but we are going to WDW in mid Sept. Can we put her in a booster now, for use in both states?

As a side note, I'm very nervous about our plane ride, as I know you can't bring a booster on the plane. I felt much safer when she was secured in a car seat.

NHTSA recommends that kids be in harnessed seat until AT LEAST 4yrs and forty lbs because a lot of kids are simply not mature enough to stay properly seated in 3-pt seat belted booster seat (BPB) until they're older, plus their head to body ratio is such that a 3-pt seatbelt might not be totally adequate in an accident (this is info I was given by a CPST). This is a personal decision for you though whether you think your child is ready for a bpb. At any rate if she's at the weight limit of her current car seat then you really need to get her in a higher weight limit seat asap. Your options for harnessing at a higher weight limit are the Britax seats (MA/BV/DC up to 65lbs, Regent up to 80lbs), the Sunshine Kids Radian (www.skjp.com harnesses to 65lbs), Cosco/Safety 1st Apex (combo seat - harnesses to 65lbs & converts to bpb, caviat-is outgrown when the tops of childs ears reach the top of the Vehicle seat back). I'm pretty sure that it but anyone feel free to let me know if I missed anything!

hth.

 

[rt2dz]

All the time. My kids ride bikes, although it isn't safe. They roller skate, although it isn't safe. They both have bunkbeds - not safe. At sixteen they will start driving cars, which isn't safe. They do all sorts of kid things. Its measured risk, you can't protect them completely - no one can. From there it is how much risk are you willing to take? To me, the difference between having an older child in a car with a seat belt adjuster or a lap belt, and the same child in a booster seat is a negligble risk - and one I'm willing to take.

I think you are taking this to a much higher degree than what it is meant. Like I said, I was in a very horrible car wreck at 18, I know more than others just how dangerous it is every time you get in a car. Yes, I still do it and put my kids in a car too.

Put it this way, do your kids wear their helments when they ride bikes or skate? Do they dart in and out of traffic on a freeway or do they follow the rules of the road? Do your bunk beds have rails? Yeah, it is calculated risk. You can't protect them from everything, but you teach them to be safe. You are waiting until they are 16 to drive--I assume you are making sure they take drivers ed and pass their drivers license test.

My sisters neighbor didn't see the big deal in propping a bottle for her 2 month old to help her two year old child get dressed--until the baby drowned and she had to plan a funeral. Some guy in our town didn't see the big deal in driving home after only having 3 drinks, especially when he was only going 3 blocks. I bet the parents of the four year old little boy he ran over and killed feel a little differently. My next door neighbor is a paramedic and just lost a two year old child from choking on popcorn a couple of weeks ago at the movie theater. I guess her parents didn't see why the AAP put it on the hazardess food list for chilldren 3 and under--she ate popcorn all the time. It only takes one time. I had a friend who always, for 17 years, left her car keys in her car. It was finally stolen, and insuriance doesn't even cover theft if you leave the keys in the car.

There are reasons why these recommendations are in existence. Why states adopt the laws in the first place, and many of the laxer states are raising their standards. All4fun listed the links. Seatbelts even with the adjuster just aren't the same until a child is of a certain size.

Your kids can't choose for themselves in many situations and lack the ability to choose properly in many other situations. I know many kids who would only eat junk food, never brush their teeth or never go to school if it were up to them. It is a parents job to do the right thing for their safety and health. At least in my opinion

 

[graciepooh]

Just a little info on the Britax seats listed a few posts above this one. We have two of them. The roundabout is approved for airplanes but is for younger children. Our second one is the Husky and it is not approved for airplane travel so if you do buy a new one and your planning on taking it onboard you may want to ask before buying. Good luck. By the way we are very happy with them both but the Husky is not as easy to move from car to car as the roundabout is.

 

[mrsltg]

While I do believe in carseats and boosters and the like, I think some of the laws are positively ridiculous. 8 years and 80 pounds is just moronic. There are 8 year olds that are 5 feet tall. There are 8 year olds that are 90+ pounds. My daughter will be free of her booster at age 6.

I do have to wonder though, for those who always take the safest route possible, do you eschew WDW transportation? I've never noticed a carseat on a single bus, nor have I noticed a single person donning a life preserver for the trip across the lagoon to the MK.

Erin

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

That's not how I read the Florida law. 4 years old can go into a seat belt. I see nothing that says anything about height or weight in Florida law.

*properly restrained* is the key. It doesn't automatically say that a 4yo should only be in a seatbelt--just that you have one of three options in which to properly restrain them.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

As I recall, legally children aren't required to have a childseat in a car for hire (rental car or taxi) no matter what their age in Florida. Not that I recommend you drive around with an unrestrained two year old.

Researching this now--but taxi's and limo services are different than using a rental car on your own.

Most of the sites I found, while I cannot site florida law at the moment--the rental car companies are telling their clients that it is indeed required by law.

 

[Kanga1]

I would rent one (booster or carseat...whichever you're comfortable with) from the rental car company. That's what we did with our 4 year-old last year. I don't remember the cost, but I don't think it was much.

 

[all4fun]

Researching this now--but taxi's and limo services are different than using a rental car on your own.

Most of the sites I found, while I cannot site florida law at the moment--the rental car companies are telling their clients that it is indeed required by law.

Here's a link to the Florida Law I do not see any exemptions for rental cars.

And here is what the Orlando PD site says:

Car Seats: The following is taken from Florida law: “Every operator of a motor vehicle as defined herein, while transporting a child in a motor vehicle operated on the roadways, streets, or highways of this state, shall, if the child is 5 years of age or younger, provide for protection of the child by properly using a crash-tested, federally approved child restraint device. For children aged through 3 years, such restraint device must be a separate carrier or a vehicle manufacturer's integrated child seat. For children aged 4 through 5 years, a separate carrier, an integrated child seat, or a seat belt may be used.”


As a practical matter, we suggest you speak with your car rental agency. They deal with this every day and will be informative and will provide you with the necessary equipment. (emphasis mine)

ETA: I think it also helps to remember, the laws of physics trump the laws of any state.

hth.

 

[deedeed]

The first year we didn't want the hassle of bringing our car seat to the airport and checking it so we went to wal-mart down in florida and bought one when we got down there. Since we are in the car so infrequently, and the seat was hardly touched we returned it on the way home! Might be an easier way to go. We also got groceries and things while we were there and didn't have to go anywhere else!
Thought this might help

 

[goobsmom]

Thanks for the suggestions. The rental car companies charge about $15/day I thought (maybe I'm wrong?) and that's way too much. The quote from the Orlando PD was confusing. At first it sounds like they have to be in carseats until they turn six, but then it says four and five year olds can be in boosters or seatbelts, too. I was worried for a minute there.

 

[all4fun]

Wow, $15 a day is steep. I've seen backless boosters on sale at the store for $15. You definitely save by buying especially if you need it for more than one day...

 

[akasleepingbeauty]

My dd is 5.5 (will be 6 in April and is 47" and 39 lbs) and is still in a 5 pt harness carseat (Britax Marathon). She was in a Roundabout until she got too big and now her brother (2.5, will be 3 in May) is using it. We LOVE Britax seats and will never use anything else for our kids. I have no set time for taking dd out of the Marathon and moving onto a booster - it is safe for up to 65 lbs so we have a long time to make that decision and she is in no hurry to get out of it. Next year we'll be buying another Marathon as ds's carseat will be 6 years old and must be destroyed. I plan on keeping him in his Marathon for as long as possible too.

I am somewhat particular about carseats and it just about kills me to see other cars with little kids sitting in the front seats and/or with no seatbelts or carseats (depending on the age). I just can't fathom not having my kids in carseats at all times in a car but I understand that the final decision must be made by each parent.

When traveling, we take both carseats with us and use them in our rental car - I like having our own seats so I can be sure they are installed correctly and they are clean and that the kids will be comfortable in them. We have bags for our carseats so that carrying them around the airport is not too difficult.

As far as other forms of transportation, we don't use buses at WDW and the lack of restraints is a reason (we also don't like taking strollers on the bus etc). So we always get a rental car when we go. We do use the ferry boats but you are not permitted to use the lifevests unless instructed by crew members in the event of an emergency. We even skipped taxis, subways and buses during a week-long visit to NYC with dd at 9 months old due to lack of proper restraints - we walked everywhere and it was fine. We were once talked into taking a taxi in St. John while on a Disney cruise that had no seatbelts and it was so scary that we never did it again. I understand the risk may be negligible but I still feel it is my responsiblity to keep that risk as low as possible so I will continue keeping my kids in carseats at all times.