Does Disney regret the Fort?

[SL6827]

Does Disney now regret the camp sites at the Fort? The least expensive booking that can be made I would think?

 

[bigdisneydaddy]

It may be the least expensive at WDW but every campground operator in America wishes they could charge this much for a property thats around 50 yrs old with very few changes.
I have heard people debate the value of the lakefront property but the fact that Reflections never went forward and the stretch between the Fort and the Lodge is still undeveloped weakens that point.

 

[Narcoossee11]

The camp ground is profitable but Disney clearly has no interest in enlarging it.
It looks like they would grow it's size or have another campground location.

In 50+ years, it has changed very little.

 

[Clifton Tesh]

Fort Wilderness is probably the most coveted campground in the United States.

It sets a standard that almost every family oriented campground strives to be like and it is a bucket list campground for millions of campers.

It has one the lowest upkeep cost of any of the Disney resorts which is one of the reasons it's the "cheapest" to stay at.

People always theorize that Disney is losing money on the fort because it takes up so much space and they could build five 1600 room resorts in that space but what Disney saves in property maintenance along with the kickbacks they get for the conservation of the land and wildlife greatly offsets their losses.

The Fort also rakes in a ton of income from other activities that other resorts do not offer (Golf cart rentals, archery, horseback riding, canoes, bicycles rentals, etc...) and without the fort, most of these activities probably would not exist on property.

Once you sit down and crunch the numbers, the Fort is most definitely an extremely profitable resort for Disney or else it would not still be open (Bob Paycheck would have made sure of that).

 

[NOLA_Tink]

During peak times, it can be argued that Fort Wilderness is no longer the least expensive lodging option at Walt Disney World. For April, our preferred campsite's rate is more than the cost of a room at the All Stars; but, we've selected the Fort for the inclusive campground experience.

 

[Teamubr]

I think @Clifton Tesh hit the key points.

But, we are probably a jaded group that doesn't reflect the "typical" Disney guest. I'm sure Disney has tons of data that shows most guests fly or drive in and stay at a resort/hotel. They continue to offer things to attract that crowd. For those of us that drag our room with us, we are in the minority and not the revenue generator Disney cares about. Maintaining status quo is good enough.

j

 

[bama_ed]

Walt Disney, after he had announced the WDW project and before he died, was quoted as saying that he wanted to offer accommodations in Florida from tent sites to hotel suites (or words to that effect). That's why Fort Wilderness is one of the original resorts from 1971 and currently being celebrated during the 50th anniversary celebration. The builders of the MK leading up to 1971 included the Fort (loops 100-600 and the Settlement Trading Post mostly) because they wanted to stay true to Walt's dream for Florida.

The use of the land for generating Fort revenue is not as profitable as it is for the hotels in absolute terms but this isn't Disneyland where vacant land became non-existant. WDW has lots of land available for more vertical resorts so the Fort chugs along.

I've been to Disneyland Paris and noticed that there is a Disney resort named "Disney Davy Crockett Ranch" at DLP (although located slightly away from the other Disney resorts there) and it is basically the Fort minus campsites. In other words - only "cabins" which are higher revenue producers. Disney (or their investors/partners) don't offer campsites anywhere else that I'm aware of as one of their own resorts.

DLP's Disney Davy Crockett Ranch

Oh I noticed no Disney transportation is offered between DCR and the DLP parks. You gotta drive.

We are lucky to get the campsites we have even if they'll never be expanded (although, hey, we did get 2100 converted back to a camping loop and away from being a cabin loop) but the economics are always under review I bet.

I remember when I went to Disneyland back in the 90s there was an RV park (not operated by Disney) on land off the northwest corner of the original MK. You can see the angled parking of the trailers (pull through I guess) in the upper left. Now that land has a Disney parking deck on it.



Image date is October 1995. Dreamed about staying there (didn't have a camper/rv yet) but knew I wanted to some day.

So for the OP, I don't know that Disney "regrets" having the Fort. It's there and it's a cash cow so they keep it operating. If/when land becomes scarce, that's when we start losing stuff.

Bama Ed

PS - And I suggest that the Fort isn't the cheapest resort because it might have the lowest operating expenses. Disney doesn't use cost-plus pricing for sites and cabins. They manage their expenses to maintain and service the the Fort at the desired levels. Then they charge AS MUCH as they think they can to maximize revenue. As long as revenue > expense,

 

[DL1WDW2]

I have been searching for a source online that. Posted the profit Disney. makes if every campsite was reserved in a year .
It was astonishing !

 

[Part-Time Paradise]

I would be interested to see the numbers of overhead per unit (campsite/cabin/room) and per acre between FW and other resorts. Then compare those numbers to what a FW guest spends on everything else (park admissions, food, everything else) to guests at other resorts.

With magic band and MDE among all the other tracking available to the Mouse that analysis is surely done,but undoubtedly not shared. I can't imagine the amount of math nerds and computers they invest in to churn through the mountains of data available to the company.

 

[happycamper47]

The camp ground is profitable but Disney clearly has no interest in enlarging it.
It looks like they would grow it's size or have another campground location.

In 50+ years, it has changed very little.

You have to remember that WDW is somewhat limited due to the wetlands restrictions. With that said Reflections, if it is completed, gives them a bigger investment return and it serves a larger audience, then adding an additional 100 campsites(if even that many would fit) in the same foot print. There was word that when Reflections was built there would be some additional deluxe RV spaces included. True or not, that has yet to be seen.

 

[Teamubr]

There was word that when Reflections was built there would be some additional deluxe RV spaces included. True or not, that has yet to be seen.

I have blue prints that have been posted online over the past 10 years or so on the new resort. It has been started/stopped several times in the planning stages. The stables are on them. The new roads. Even the cabins at the water's edge and a restaurant building near the water. I don't see any campground/RV parking on any of the diagrams.

That was probably wishful dreaming on many of our parts.

j

 

[happycamper47]

I have blue prints that have been posted online over the past 10 years or so on the new resort. It has been started/stopped several times in the planning stages. The stables are on them. The new roads. Even the cabins at the water's edge and a restaurant building near the water. I don't see any campground/RV parking on any of the diagrams.

That was probably wishful dreaming on many of our parts.

j

Word was that a Salesman at DVC said Reflections would include new sites added for DVC members. If that happens it would take some of the load off the regular sites. I know, it was a Salesman, but the DVC guys are usually pretty honest.

 

[nomorethan8]

Word was that a Salesman at DVC said Reflections would include new sites added for DVC members.

The beginnings of a campsite timeshare. Wishful thinking I imagine. I wonder how many points a night it would cost (as I give myself the liberty to imagine). What accommodations would be included .........

 

[bigdisneydaddy]

Word was that a Salesman at DVC said Reflections would include new sites added for DVC members. If that happens it would take some of the load off the regular sites. I know, it was a Salesman, but the DVC guys are usually pretty honest.

The real skinny comes from the bus drivers.

 

[Clifton Tesh]

The real skinny comes from the bus drivers.

LOL!

Being a WDW bus driver is my retirement plan.

 

[SL6827]

Such interesting feedback.

 

[Teamubr]

Being a WDW bus driver is my retirement plan.

I 'm hoping driving a 42ft coach around is pretty good "relevant experience". If only WDW was closer to the ocean/gulf.

j

 

[Clifton Tesh]

I 'm hoping driving a 42ft coach around is pretty good "relevant experience". If only WDW was closer to the ocean/gulf.

j

You want some good experience, drive a school bus for a few days

When I see people complain about the way kids behave on the WDW buses on here, it just makes me laugh


From school buses, to coach buses, to city transit buses, and semi trucks, I've drove it all but being able to interact with people while driving them around is what I love the most. Sadly, it's not what pays the bills, so right now I haul building supplies on a 53 ft flatbed and await the day that I can drive around shouting out random Disney trivia while ushering people around the world's biggest people trap set by a mouse.

 

[Teamubr]

Right now I haul building supplies on a 53 ft flatbed and await the day that I can drive around shouting out random Disney trivia while ushering people around the world's biggest people trap set by a mouse.

I have a number of friends that are OTR. A couple regional that are home most nights and a few long haul. One of my staff's daughter was really good at basketball. Recruited nationally and was planning on going pro in Europe. She got hurt and decided to get her CDL. Drives all over the MIdwest now and makes better money than she would have playing ball in Europe. She has been looking at college coaching, but the driver pay is still better than a starting assistant coach.

It is definitely a lifestyle that can take its toll though.

j

 

[Clifton Tesh]

I have a number of friends that are OTR. A couple regional that are home most nights and a few long haul. One of my staff's daughter was really good at basketball. Recruited nationally and was planning on going pro in Europe. She got hurt and decided to get her CDL. Drives all over the MIdwest now and makes better money than she would have playing ball in Europe. She has been looking at college coaching, but the driver pay is still better than a starting assistant coach.

It is definitely a lifestyle that can take its toll though.

j

It certainly takes it's toll. I'm very fortunate and have a dedicated route. I see the same customers every week and we've built good working relationships.

I don't have appointment times I have to meet, all I have to do is get their stuff delivered by the promised date.

Most of the time I only work 3-4 days a week. Sure, two of those days I have to sleep in my truck but I'm sleeping in my own bed the other five night and I don't work weekends or holidays.

I have a pretty sweet gig.