Do you want a monorail to MGM? Please read!

[angey77]

Hey all.
Last week my friend and I rode the front car of the monorail to EPCOT and had a truly interesting conversation with our driver. In the course of the many questions, I mentioned to him that another driver told me three years ago that there were plans to expand the monorail to MGM but then it got scrapped with 9/11. He confirmed this, but added a note.
Listen to this, and listen well. He told me the expansion is still on the minds of Disney and he said, and I quote, "We just need people to write Disney and tell them how much they want it then maybe they will get moving."
Get those pens and emails going. We need an expansion!

 

[luvindisneyworld]

 

[Horizons16]

 

[Dznefreek]

That'll happen after the park in Texas, the park in Branson, the park in St. Louis.............

Disney not does not do things because of Guest demand. If that were true every park would have a clone of every ride and show at every park. Besides, I heard bus drivers were the most reliable source of information.

 

[snyderla]

Just wondering...if Disney doesn't do things because of guest demand, what was the reason for bringing back Early Entry, AKA, Extra Magic Hour? Or maybe you were jsut kidding?

Lori

 

[3for Me]

Angey77 -

Very interesting - AND it can't hurt to try -

But.........what I really wanted to say to you was

GEAUX TIGERS - GEAUX TIGERS - GEAUX TIGERS - GEAUX TIGERS

THIS YEAR WE ARE TOOOOO SWEET (SUGAR, THAT IS!)

 

[zulaya]

The cost of bringing back EE is insignificant compared with the expense of expanding the monorail to MGM.

Disney is just now starting to make more money - the stock is going up - so this might be a good time for them to look at capital improvements. The other plus for this to happen is *IF* the train from the airport to Tampa does get funding AND stops at WDW, there's another reason to expand the transportation offerings.

However, this is all speculation at this point. Monorail expansion has been a popular rumor that surfaces every so often. It's possibly that if more guests express their desire for monorail expansion, it might get bumped up in the timetable. But be prepared to pay for it.

 

[JoeMikeB]

I have been told by knowledgeable cast members that Disney has for several years recognized they have an internal transportation problem staring them in the face. Busses running on the same roads as automobiles will sooner rather than later become part of the problem rather than a solution as they become ensnarled in gridlock and unable to handle the passenger volume. So they are looking at any number of other internal transportation alternatives including extending the monorail to all the parks and resorts. Monorails are terribly expensive to build because of the footings for the pylons. Dig down over three feet and you are in water so they have to set caissons and put the footings very very deep for stability. Especially when you consider the possibility of Florida's hurricane winds. I have been at WDW when they shut the monorails down due to high winds. That alone would seem to rule the monorail out as a comprehensive solution.

Whatever solution(s) Disney chooses will be very expensive. The question is which will move the most passengers in the most efficient manner? 911 gave the planners a breather because the dramatically reduced attendance in the parks and resort occupancy postponed the need as well as wiping out the funds available for any non-revenue project. It is safe to assume that as park attendance and resort occupancy rebuild, the traffic congestion will move a comprehensive internal transportation solution back to the front burner. If Walt were still with us the solution would certainly be innovative and interesting not to mention fun. It will be informative to see what Eisner does.

 

[angey77]

Originally posted by 3for Me
Angey77 -

Very interesting - AND it can't hurt to try -

But.........what I really wanted to say to you was

GEAUX TIGERS - GEAUX TIGERS - GEAUX TIGERS - GEAUX TIGERS

THIS YEAR WE ARE TOOOOO SWEET (SUGAR, THAT IS!)

You said it 3for Me! I can't wait to sit my happy roaring self in the Dome next weekend. Later sooners!!!!

 

[seashoreCM]

Are there any internal traffic problems other than Buena Vista Drive between MGM Studios and Downtown Disney Marketplace?

Cutting another exit for MGM onto Victory Drive would shorten the problem area to be approximately Caribbean Beach to Marketplace.

It is not a monorail that is needed but rather more rights of way, or "corridors". Particularly at Downtown Disney, the problem can't be solved without building another layer i.e. an elevated right of way structure.

Looks to me that the only other problems that buses have compared with monorails is the higher driver to passenger ratio, and bad automobile drivers.

Disney hints:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/disney.htm

 

[swilphil]

Originally posted by snyderla
Just wondering...if Disney doesn't do things because of guest demand, what was the reason for bringing back Early Entry, AKA, Extra Magic Hour? Or maybe you were jsut kidding?

I hate to sound like a cynic, but I think the reason they did that was to make more money. The bottom line is that Disney wants to make a profit. EE was a relatively inexpensive way to bring guests back to the resorts. Notice they also have severely cut park hours, and it seems like there aren't as many CM's as there used to be. I'm not complaining about those changes, and I would love to see the monorail at MGM. I could walk/boat to MGM from the Dolphin and zip to MK on the monorail. That would be great.

 

[Buckleybunch]

IMHO - I doubt Disney will do any thing any time soon.
How many years has the rumor of them building a monorail around the Epcot Resorts? IMHO that is where it would start.

Right now anything that Disney does or doesn't do is because of the Almighty buck. Even us loyal disney fans couldn't change that.

 

[Laz]

Adding a little more rumor to this thread:

Last time we were in the front, the pilot told us that their has always been a plan drawn up for extending the monorail between the Swan and Dolphin and into MGM. He also told us of a Light Rail plan (like in Vegas or the Orlando airport) from the Animal Kingdom area to TTC. Of course money was, and always will be the issue the issue. Keep longer hours, keep the parks clean, keep introducing new attractions, and I'll take the bus!

 

[Tinky]

If we're gonna dream, dream big.... Let's all write in for hovercrafts

 

[tjkraz]

The original monorail track construction at WDW back in the 70s reportedly cost $10-12 million per mile of track.

A similar project in Las Vegas a couple of years ago was priced at $100 million for just four miles of track construction.

So, at a present-day cost of $25 million per mile just for the track construction (not including the monorial itself, maintenance & repair, etc), it's difficult for WDW to justify the expansion of the monorial system. Care to guess how many busses they can put into service for the cost of expanding the monorail?

There are also logistical concerns that come into play if they were to be more and more dependent upon the monorail system. Without multiple tracks running simultaneously (which would add cost), the breakdown of a single vehicle can bring an entire monorail loop to a complete halt, stranding thousands of park guests.

But on the brighter side, there are signs that WDW is still keeping its options open with regard to the monorail. The Dolphin resort was originally constructed specifically to allow for the removal of a section of guest rooms. That area in the center of the resort could then easily be converted to a monorail station. And, the Public Offering Statement for the new DVC property--Saratoga Springs--specifically reserves the right to add monorail supports at a later date. These supports would presumedly lead to a station across the water at Downtown Disney.

With the high-speed rail system between MCO and WDW seemingly gaining some steam (in the form of taxpayer dollars), I doubt WDW will make any major investments in their transportation infrastructure until that situation shakes-out. They are facing a situation where airline passengers might be deposited at one central station on WDW property--luggage and all--and then need a way to get to their resorts. Could be great for business, but will certainly require some adjustments to the current transportation system.

Or, the high-speed rail might not happen at all.

 

[Ralph&Pam]

Originally posted by tjkraz

... But on the brighter side, there are signs that WDW is still keeping its options open with regard to the monorail. The Dolphin resort was originally constructed specifically to allow for the removal of a section of guest rooms. That area in the center of the resort could then easily be converted to a monorail station. ...

This is an "urban legend". The building is nowhere near long enough to support a monorail station. The entire monorail must be able to dock inside the building for loading and unloading passengers. Consider the size of the Contemporary. The tower section of the Dolphin is a small fraction of the "length" of the CR and the monorail station fills the entire length of the CR.

Ralph

 

[Buckleybunch]

I thought it was just for the monorail to go thru, not as a station, that they were going to use a central location for the station.. ie like what they have at Epcot.

 

[Mark P.]

Oh, Tylerrrrrrrrrrr

 

[Werner Weiss]

Originally posted by Buckleybunch
I thought it was just for the monorail to go thru, not as a station, that they were going to use a central location for the station.. ie like what they have at Epcot.

It seems that one or more captains on the the boats the connect the Epcot resorts with Epcot and Disney-MGM Studios Theme Park keep telling Walt Disney World guests the "interesting fact" that the black areas on the facades of the Swan and Dolphin can be removed to accommodate future monorail beams. The story has been repeated on Internet bulletin boards and Web sites. And it's undoubtedly been repeated to friends, family, and co-workers by WDW guests.

There are two versions of the story. One version claims that the spaces behind the black areas are big empty voids. The other version claims that they are filled with "temporary" hotel rooms that can be removed.

It's a good story, but it isn't true. The black squares are simply design features to make the large facades more interesting. Architect Michael Graves likes to use of dark and light areas or different materials to break up building facades. I don't know if the captain(s) honestly believe the monorail story, or if they're just having some fun at the guests' expense.

Around the same time that Michael Graves designed the Swan and Dolphin, he also designed the Hyatt Regency La Jolla at Aventine (in California) -- which has three black squares on its facade (see http://aventine.com/frameset/hyattset.htm ). Michael Graves' office tower at Aventine (see http://aventine.com/frameset/officeset.htm ) only has a single black square on it.

By the way, the black areas on the Swan and Dolphin are substantially different in size (about 5 stories tall on the Swan, and about 10 stories tall on the Dolphin) and in elevation (starting about 7 stories up on the Swan, and starting about 10 or more stories up on the Dolphin). I'll have to count the exact number of stories the next time I visit WDW.

They're much taller than they would need to be to accommodate a monorail.

If the beam did go through the Swan and Dolphin, there would not be a logical place to put a station. The beam would be way too high, and the buildings aren't nearly deep enough.

If the builder and architect had really wanted to leave paths for future monorail beams, they could simply have left openings. If they wanted to hide the holes, why did they make the "covering" black instead of really hiding them by dressing them up to look like the rest of the building? Why would they put in "temporary" rooms? (Look up at the black area any evening, and you'll clearly see that there are rooms and people up there.)

One more point... Take a look a the shape of the Dolphin. Where would the elevators need to be to reach the upper floors? Yep; the elevator shafts go through the center of the area behind the black square.

 

[Chip 'n Dale Express]

As someone who spent three years with Disney Transport driving both the Monorail and a Bus, I can tell you that Monorail Pilots *LOVE* to talk.

But here's the bottom line -- It's too expensive, and would create a logistical nightmare.

Guests want Disney to expand the monorail because it's cool, and they like taking it more than they like taking the bus. However, what they don't know is that it would actually make travel around property more difficult.

Starting off with finances... it would be ENORMOUSLY expensive to expand the Monorail. Current estimates are running $80 million per mile, not including switches, stations, or other challenges. Trains run about $25m per train. A small expansion could easily cost $600-800 million...

Now, a decent expansion would cost over a Billion dollars. That's a huge chunk of change. So of course, Disney is going to want to make sure that this money will be well spent. As such, it should be focused on the major areas... All-Stars and Pop Century. Now, people pay deluxe prices to stay at the Contemporary, Polynesian and Grand Floridian partly for the Monorail. As such, is it fair to offer that same amenity to someone paying 5-10x less?

Next up, logistics. Monorails are fixed guideway systems, and cannot deviate from course. If a train fills up, it still has to make its stops, and leave people behind. You can only run so many trains at once.

This would happen ALL the time at the Grand Floridian monorail station (my old bidline). The train's seats would fill at the Contemporary, and standing room would be taken at the Polynesian. Guests at the Grand Floridian would sometimes have to wait for the second train in order to get to the MK.

A bus on the other hand can go directly to its destination, and a second bus can be put into the mix. You can always add more buses. Buses are also very flexible, and can be routed to where they are needed.


Second point... in order to get from resort to park, most trips would require a transfer. Can't have a direct line, and switches are expensive and impractical. Transfers add mass confusion, and time onto the trip. Most guests would rather take a direct 12 minute bus ride, than a two monorail rides totalling 30 minutes.

The bottom line... expanding the Monorail isn't all that it's cracked up to be... and when you really examine it... the bus system is way more efficient than it gets credit for.